Forged Performance: Engine inspection after 25K miles of abuse
08-13-2007, 07:44 PM
#1
Forged Performance: Engine inspection after 25K miles of abuse
I decided to take a different direction with my personal car, and switch to a different turbo kit, and bottom end setup, and design my new arrangement strictly for time attack, track days, time trial events. This engine has served me well, with about 25K miles on the engine, around 25 track days, a couple days at the 1/4 mile track, and 1.5 years of daily driving usage, I was curious to see how everything looking on the inside. 
She ran strong till the end, but it's time for a change. Prior to the teardown, leakdown was still 7% or less across all the cylinders. 
Today, I dissassembled the bottom end for inspection. In all honestly, I was expecting to see a well worn and well used engine. What I found instead, was an engine that looked virtually brand new.
In the photos below, you will see what a good engine bearing should look like. The pistons and crankshaft exhibit little signs of wear or deterioration. Prior to this photos, I put the engine components in our parts washer for about 5 mins, just to clean up the surface oil, but this is basically how they looked, fresh out of the block.
Everyone knows what a forged shortblock looks like, but it's not often that you see one with 25K miles on it.
In case anyone was curious, I ran Motul 300V 15w-50 and OEM Nissan Oil Filters.
The new engine I am building, will use Eagle Rods, FP Spec Arias ED pistons, and an unsleeved block. I am convinced that unsleeved blocks aren't needed for the vast majority of buildups, and an unsleeved block is more suitable for a circuit track setup.
Just thought I would share my findings.
She ran strong till the end, but it's time for a change. Prior to the teardown, leakdown was still 7% or less across all the cylinders. Today, I dissassembled the bottom end for inspection. In all honestly, I was expecting to see a well worn and well used engine. What I found instead, was an engine that looked virtually brand new.
In the photos below, you will see what a good engine bearing should look like. The pistons and crankshaft exhibit little signs of wear or deterioration. Prior to this photos, I put the engine components in our parts washer for about 5 mins, just to clean up the surface oil, but this is basically how they looked, fresh out of the block.
Everyone knows what a forged shortblock looks like, but it's not often that you see one with 25K miles on it.
In case anyone was curious, I ran Motul 300V 15w-50 and OEM Nissan Oil Filters.
The new engine I am building, will use Eagle Rods, FP Spec Arias ED pistons, and an unsleeved block. I am convinced that unsleeved blocks aren't needed for the vast majority of buildups, and an unsleeved block is more suitable for a circuit track setup.
Just thought I would share my findings.
Last edited by Sharif@Forged; 08-13-2007 at 08:31 PM.
08-13-2007, 07:56 PM
#2
Looking good, impressive for 25k miles of abuse. But we all know the secrets of your parts washer... post a pic of the nuclear cloud that comes out of it while "Washing". I guess this just confirms the rumors about being able to time travel in it.
I'm planning a similar build on one of my cars: Unsleeved 3.5 with eagles + CPs. Should be interesting to see how they do.
I'm planning a similar build on one of my cars: Unsleeved 3.5 with eagles + CPs. Should be interesting to see how they do.
08-13-2007, 08:15 PM
#5
Originally Posted by rcdash
c'mon, spill with the turbo kit selection 
lemme guess jwt tt 700bb, no scratch that, one bigger? target hp? dare I ask, EMS?
amazing appearance on "used" parts - what you gonna do with the pauter rods?
lemme guess jwt tt 700bb, no scratch that, one bigger? target hp? dare I ask, EMS?amazing appearance on "used" parts - what you gonna do with the pauter rods?
The rods will be sold in the classified forum. It would be Very Rediculous to do anything else with them.
I am switching to the JWT 700bb kit, and the current FCON Vpro that is in my car. My goal for the new setup is a cool running 500-550whp circuit track car, with a nice wide usable powerband. The car is also going on a diet. I was never any good at drag racing, so I will leave that up to Eagletanggreen and others.
08-13-2007, 08:18 PM
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Nice, thanks for sharing the pics.
Your motor/bearing section looks much better than some others I've seen here lately with under 1k miles. I guess bearing wear etched into the rod isn't necessarily normal.
Hmm... I'm guessing either JWT or a custom kit with a water/meth setup with all the cooling goodies (rad, shroud, fans, active coolers, etc). Push the limits of the unsleeved block, perhaps? I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Edit: Just saw you say JWT 700bb. Comon.. custom is the way to go!
Your motor/bearing section looks much better than some others I've seen here lately with under 1k miles. I guess bearing wear etched into the rod isn't necessarily normal.
Hmm... I'm guessing either JWT or a custom kit with a water/meth setup with all the cooling goodies (rad, shroud, fans, active coolers, etc). Push the limits of the unsleeved block, perhaps? I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Edit: Just saw you say JWT 700bb. Comon.. custom is the way to go!
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08-13-2007, 08:19 PM
#8
Originally Posted by Hal@IP
Looking good, impressive for 25k miles of abuse. But we all know the secrets of your parts washer... post a pic of the nuclear cloud that comes out of it while "Washing". I guess this just confirms the rumors about being able to time travel in it.
08-13-2007, 08:23 PM
#9
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
I could make a moderately humorous joke, but I will refrain.
The rods will be sold in the classified forum. It would be Very Rediculous to do anything else with them.
I am switching to the JWT 700bb kit, and the current FCON Vpro that is in my car. My goal for the new setup is a cool running 500-550whp circuit track car, with a nice wide usable powerband. The car is also going on a diet. I was never any good at drag racing, so I will leave that up to Eagletanggreen and others.
The rods will be sold in the classified forum. It would be Very Rediculous to do anything else with them.
I am switching to the JWT 700bb kit, and the current FCON Vpro that is in my car. My goal for the new setup is a cool running 500-550whp circuit track car, with a nice wide usable powerband. The car is also going on a diet. I was never any good at drag racing, so I will leave that up to Eagletanggreen and others.
ha - lol. very rediculous indeed.
08-13-2007, 08:28 PM
#10
Originally Posted by taurran
Nice, thanks for sharing the pics.
Your motor/bearing section looks much better than some others I've seen here lately with under 1k miles. I guess bearing wear etched into the rod isn't necessarily normal.
Hmm... I'm guessing either JWT or a custom kit with a water/meth setup with all the cooling goodies (rad, shroud, fans, active coolers, etc). Push the limits of the unsleeved block, perhaps? I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Edit: Just saw you say JWT 700bb. Comon.. custom is the way to go!
Your motor/bearing section looks much better than some others I've seen here lately with under 1k miles. I guess bearing wear etched into the rod isn't necessarily normal.
Hmm... I'm guessing either JWT or a custom kit with a water/meth setup with all the cooling goodies (rad, shroud, fans, active coolers, etc). Push the limits of the unsleeved block, perhaps? I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Edit: Just saw you say JWT 700bb. Comon.. custom is the way to go!
Cooling wise, not really adding anything more....yet. I want to get some real world track data with the unsleeved block vs. the old 100mm sleeved block I was running. Right now, the car has our shroud, twin 13 inch Spals, Oil Cooler, pathfinder bypass mod, and Evans NPG+ waterless coolant. I think we'll eventually add quite a bit of air ducting for both the brakes, and the intercooler/rad, but I like to go one step at a time...so we can see what actually works...and what doesnt.
08-13-2007, 10:47 PM
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Sharif@Forged said: "The new engine I am building, will use Eagle Rods, FP Spec Arias ED pistons, and an unsleeved block. I am convinced that unsleeved blocks aren't needed for the vast majority of buildups, and an unsleeved block is more suitable for a circuit track setup.
can you if you don't mind explain more, i thought sleeved blocks are more durable and able to stand more aggresive setups, for track, drag or anything.
i'm going to order a built engine, aps extreme and other stuff from GTM during the few coming weeks, i'll be using the car for track and also on the road.
can you if you don't mind explain more, i thought sleeved blocks are more durable and able to stand more aggresive setups, for track, drag or anything.
i'm going to order a built engine, aps extreme and other stuff from GTM during the few coming weeks, i'll be using the car for track and also on the road.
08-13-2007, 11:02 PM
#13
Nice Sharif! Now that is how a bearing is suppose to look! I like your new idea of building a track purpose car with some conservative power numbers.
Only thing I would recommend is throwing in one of out 87mm stroker cranks so you can have a 3.8L un-sleeved engine with a 96mm bore
Have fun
-George
GT Motorsports
Only thing I would recommend is throwing in one of out 87mm stroker cranks so you can have a 3.8L un-sleeved engine with a 96mm bore
Have fun
-George
GT Motorsports
Last edited by GTM; 08-13-2007 at 11:28 PM.
08-14-2007, 04:06 AM
#14
Quick question George: I understand your stroker will provide more power at any given psi - but at what power level do you recommend moving to the stroker vs sticking to the stock 3.5 (or 3.54L)? Is heat control issues worth the tradeoff in power? Or is heat not so much an issue at 3.8L?
08-14-2007, 04:52 AM
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Sharif@Forged said: ...an unsleeved block is more suitable for a circuit track setup.
qxz9027mkii said: can you if you don't mind explain more...
qxz9027mkii said: can you if you don't mind explain more...
08-14-2007, 04:54 AM
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Nice results. Considering this engine put down mid-600's on your DD, it's very nice to know that the rods, pistons, crank, and bearings came out so well after that much abuse. So with this being a sleeved 100mm / stock stroke engine, what's your take on whole over-bore discussion? I know you were a bit hesitant to build up an engine like this for your customers as it wasn't a proven concept yet. Does this change your impression of the 100mm over-bore and cosworth hg combo?
George@GTM brings up a very good point as well. How would you feel about dropping in a stroker for a direct comparison. Even though you ran the GReddy setup on the last motor, and are looking to go with the JWT on this next round - you'd be one of the few (if any) that would have a chance to compare an over-bored 3.8 to a stroked 3.8 first hand.
Needless to say, this should be interesting to follow over the coming months. Please keep us updated and let us know what you think when it's all said and done...
George@GTM brings up a very good point as well. How would you feel about dropping in a stroker for a direct comparison. Even though you ran the GReddy setup on the last motor, and are looking to go with the JWT on this next round - you'd be one of the few (if any) that would have a chance to compare an over-bored 3.8 to a stroked 3.8 first hand.
Needless to say, this should be interesting to follow over the coming months. Please keep us updated and let us know what you think when it's all said and done...
08-14-2007, 05:47 AM
#18
An unsleeved block is more suitable for long track sessions because it will dissipate heat much better than a sleeved block. With the concept that on the track there is only so much useable horsepower before you have to brake and turn, there is little reason to add extra strength to the block in the form of sleeves when the stock block is handling 600+ whp without issue thus far.
I am wondering if Sharif decides to go to 3.8L whether increased bore or increased stroke is the better choice for the track...
I am wondering if Sharif decides to go to 3.8L whether increased bore or increased stroke is the better choice for the track...
08-14-2007, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by rcdash
An unsleeved block is more suitable for long track sessions because it will dissipate heat much better than a sleeved block. With the concept that on the track there is only so much useable horsepower before you have to brake and turn, there is little reason to add extra strength to the block in the form of sleeves when the stock block is handling 600+ whp without issue thus far.
I am wondering if Sharif decides to go to 3.8L whether increased bore or increased stroke is the better choice for the track...
I am wondering if Sharif decides to go to 3.8L whether increased bore or increased stroke is the better choice for the track...
08-14-2007, 05:51 AM
#20
Originally Posted by Alberto
Very nice I suppose, I guess your car will be a time attack monster for next years Z day Z...and I know/agree with Function over Form, but that damn JWT FMIC is hideous!