Forged Performance: Engine inspection after 25K miles of abuse
08-14-2007, 07:36 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
The combustion event occurs inside the cast iron sleeve, and the next contact point is coolant, which surrounds the sleeve. So the heat does transfer directly from the sleeve to the coolant, and then to the aluminum block.
Our OEM cylinder walls are made from aluminum, and have a thin cast iron liner that interfaces with the piston rings, but the rest is aluminum. Aluminum is a better conductor of heat, when compared to iron.
I know that "Darton sleeves don't cool as well as stock" is received wisdom on this forum; but not only have I not seen the reasoning or data to back up the claim, but other sites and sources of information present the claims that either there is no significant difference in cooling between wet and dry sleeves, or that wet sleeves actually cool better than dry. Those claims are also generally lacking supporting data, so I will be interested to see your track data. Do you actually have recorded engine temperature data for your present engine, or will the promised track data comparison be more along the lines of, "Well, the new engine does/doesn't seem to heat up as quickly as I remember the old one doing"?
08-14-2007, 07:49 AM
#43
08-14-2007, 07:51 AM
#44
Originally Posted by MacGuffin
You're talking about wet sleeves, like Darton MID, not the stock VQ35 block, right?
Yes, aluminum is a better heat conductor than ductile iron, but my point remains that the stock block is not just aluminum. The effect on heat transfer of the cast gray iron liner is not negligible, nor is the effect of the imperfect iron/aluminum dry fit.
I know that "Darton sleeves don't cool as well as stock" is received wisdom on this forum; but not only have I not seen the reasoning or data to back up the claim, but other sites and sources of information present the claims that either there is no significant difference in cooling between wet and dry sleeves, or that wet sleeves actually cool better than dry. Those claims are also generally lacking supporting data, so I will be interested to see your track data. Do you actually have recorded engine temperature data for your present engine, or will the promised track data comparison be more along the lines of, "Well, the new engine does/doesn't seem to heat up as quickly as I remember the old one doing"?
Yes, aluminum is a better heat conductor than ductile iron, but my point remains that the stock block is not just aluminum. The effect on heat transfer of the cast gray iron liner is not negligible, nor is the effect of the imperfect iron/aluminum dry fit.
I know that "Darton sleeves don't cool as well as stock" is received wisdom on this forum; but not only have I not seen the reasoning or data to back up the claim, but other sites and sources of information present the claims that either there is no significant difference in cooling between wet and dry sleeves, or that wet sleeves actually cool better than dry. Those claims are also generally lacking supporting data, so I will be interested to see your track data. Do you actually have recorded engine temperature data for your present engine, or will the promised track data comparison be more along the lines of, "Well, the new engine does/doesn't seem to heat up as quickly as I remember the old one doing"?
We've had no cooling issues with Darton mid sleeves, when driving on the street, or drag raced, so yes, they cool better than a completely closed deck, like the ABS sleeve.
Those that have driven in my car at the track, know how hot the engine gets. I am not talking about a little hot...I am talking VERY hot.
So it will be easy to determine if the open deck is cooling better. I know that making temp comparos is loaded with heresay, and introduces far too many variables to make a conclusive asseessment 100% accurate. So a look for huge swings, and trends. The same type of practical testing with the shrouds we made, illustrated the same thing.
As I might have mentioned in the past, when I first starting tracking my car, I had no cooling issues at all. But as ambient temps increased, and I got a little faster on the track, the temp issue started creeping up on me.
08-14-2007, 08:01 AM
#45
Originally Posted by MacGuffin
I know that "Darton sleeves don't cool as well as stock" is received wisdom on this forum; but not only have I not seen the reasoning or data to back up the claim, but other sites and sources of information present the claims that either there is no significant difference in cooling between wet and dry sleeves, or that wet sleeves actually cool better than dry. Those claims are also generally lacking supporting data, so I will be interested to see your track data. Do you actually have recorded engine temperature data for your present engine, or will the promised track data comparison be more along the lines of, "Well, the new engine does/doesn't seem to heat up as quickly as I remember the old one doing"?
08-14-2007, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rcdash
You're a being a bit cynical there, eh?
08-14-2007, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by booger
Is the JWT 700bb kit a larger tubo kit than the normal JWT kit ?
08-14-2007, 08:44 AM
#50
Originally Posted by booger
Hey Sharif
Is the JWT 700bb kit a larger tubo kit than the normal JWT kit ? And is it capable of making the samw whp your Greddy Kit did ? 650wgp @19psi ?
Is the JWT 700bb kit a larger tubo kit than the normal JWT kit ? And is it capable of making the samw whp your Greddy Kit did ? 650wgp @19psi ?
Last edited by Sharif@Forged; 08-14-2007 at 09:24 AM.
08-14-2007, 08:44 AM
#51
Great info Sharif. Good to see the "conservative" approach (if that's what they call 500-600whp) works well and is reliable. Also glad to hear the L19s are in good form.
You definitely nailed my setup when I gave you my goals......no sleeves, stock heads and cams, and FCON VPro.
You definitely nailed my setup when I gave you my goals......no sleeves, stock heads and cams, and FCON VPro.
08-14-2007, 08:52 AM
#52
08-14-2007, 09:14 AM
#53
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Yes, the 700bb turbo is much larger than than the smaller 550bb kit. Up to 15psi, they seem to make very comparable power to Greddy and APS TT's. We have to crank them up past 15psi, so we'll report back once we've done that.
Please dont forget the JWT 850BB turbos "For track use only"
08-14-2007, 09:22 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by eagletanggreen
Please dont forget the JWT 850BB turbos "For track use only"
Did you register for the Chin Motorsports at Barber?
08-14-2007, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by sandy@forged
Luie,
Did you register for the Chin Motorsports at Barber?
Did you register for the Chin Motorsports at Barber?
Luie
08-14-2007, 09:35 AM
#56
Originally Posted by eagletanggreen
Yep and they charged my credit card already? I emailed them to see whats going on i received an e mail saying they are on"vacation" and will return on the 15th of this month. Everything should be ok, just a little mix up on their part, as they are looking over my track history / schools to move me to Advance solo since its my first track event with this club.
Luie
Luie
Wow, it took me forever to figure out your Luie...... You met me at Forged.. Anyways I saw you took off the body kit..... Smart move.. You would have hated not being able to drive normally with that...
08-14-2007, 09:38 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by jonb7007
Wow, it took me forever to figure out your Luie...... You met me at Forged.. Anyways I saw you took off the body kit..... Smart move.. You would have hated not being able to drive normally with that...
