so who's going to be the first to switch to E85 really?
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Joined: May 2007
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From: OK
How much octane boost does one gain from a 50/50 spray of water/meth? The only additional cost when comparing water/meth injection to E85 is the injection kit. With the scarcity of E85 I'd think water/meth is a much more viable option than E85 for performance reasons. IMO
Originally Posted by taurran
I'm surprised california has so little. I'm interested in this myself, as it might be the future of internal combustion powered automobile fuels. I'm just wondering if theres a larger movement to switch over to fuels like E85 that are compatible with current engines in the inevitable case that our petrol supply runs out. (which will happen in the next few decades)
Diesel/biodiesel are the future. Not some BS E85.
And a few decades worth of oil??? give me a break, there are plenty of decades worth of oil here in the US alone.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 9,722
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From: phoenix, AZ
some of us don't drive the Z every single day and E85 would work just fine.
here's a bone stock lotus exige that runs on E85 with 264hp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBzmmO-3Cdo
here's a bone stock lotus exige that runs on E85 with 264hp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBzmmO-3Cdo
The thing I've picked up on with E85 is that even though it has a higher octane rating, it releases less useable energy from ignition than gasoline. Octane in itself isn't a measure of power, just how well a fuel resists auto-ignition and correlates to a higher activation energy.
Premium fuels are formulated for more power and more knock resistance. E85 will have great knock resistance and make less power. So if you switched to E85 and the car ran safely without a retune, you'd find a drop in power as the immediate result. E85 105 octane does not equal 105 octane race gas.
Premium fuels are formulated for more power and more knock resistance. E85 will have great knock resistance and make less power. So if you switched to E85 and the car ran safely without a retune, you'd find a drop in power as the immediate result. E85 105 octane does not equal 105 octane race gas.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 186
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
FYI over the past 20 years there have been several attempts to make a viable fuel for personal transportation using resources other than OIL. There have been several successful prototypes for engines that use H20. The engines use the hydrogen in water to fuels the engine. The gentlemen in this video if i am not mistaken died from food poisoning. This story aired on the news 1 day and disappeared. Hrmmm. Anyways the world becomes more advanced everyday and there are technologies out there that will create a more positive atmosphere for people to live in economically and environmentally. All we have to do is take the money hungry oil power houses out of the government.
Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImGaraPrEo8
sry for the thread jack
Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImGaraPrEo8
sry for the thread jack
Last edited by Speqz; Sep 14, 2007 at 07:58 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 9,722
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From: phoenix, AZ
Originally Posted by helldorado
The thing I've picked up on with E85 is that even though it has a higher octane rating, it releases less useable energy from ignition than gasoline. Octane in itself isn't a measure of power, just how well a fuel resists auto-ignition and correlates to a higher activation energy.
Premium fuels are formulated for more power and more knock resistance. E85 will have great knock resistance and make less power. So if you switched to E85 and the car ran safely without a retune, you'd find a drop in power as the immediate result. E85 105 octane does not equal 105 octane race gas.
Premium fuels are formulated for more power and more knock resistance. E85 will have great knock resistance and make less power. So if you switched to E85 and the car ran safely without a retune, you'd find a drop in power as the immediate result. E85 105 octane does not equal 105 octane race gas.
E85 burns faster than gas and because of that requires more of it to be put into the cylinder. Yes that means it contains less energy than gas, but because you have to put more E85 into the cylinder to make up for that, that means there's more gas flowing through the engine - hence the richer A/F numbers E85 has to be tuned to.
All that higher amount of fuel flowing into the engine means heat is carried away more often. Because E85 ignites faster once it starts burning, that means throttle response and power increases because the fuel is more reactive than gas and it responds faster since it releases it's energy quicker than gas.
an example of something that produces more energy than normal gas is nitromethane and that increases the temps of the engine dramatically - one reason why it's only used for drag racing aside from being corrosive
Last edited by sentry65; Sep 14, 2007 at 09:33 AM.
My tuner (RREV) has gotten me pretty excited about E85 for the same reasons that sentry65 has mentioned. There 3 or 4 E85 stations in my area. I am going with the Fcon-Pro, so I will have a gasoline map and a E85 map...we'll see what happens.
PZ
PZ
Originally Posted by Pilot_Z
My tuner (RREV) has gotten me pretty excited about E85 for the same reasons that sentry65 has mentioned. There 3 or 4 E85 stations in my area. I am going with the Fcon-Pro, so I will have a gasoline map and a E85 map...we'll see what happens.
PZ
PZ
Any updates?
Originally Posted by Zivman
E85 is nothing more than hype. Decent octane rating, but beyond that has no legimitate place as an everyday replacement for gasoline. If not for subsidies, E85 would cost more than gasoline. The input costs/fuel exceed the fuel that is produced.
Diesel/biodiesel are the future. Not some BS E85.
And a few decades worth of oil??? give me a break, there are plenty of decades worth of oil here in the US alone.
Diesel/biodiesel are the future. Not some BS E85.
And a few decades worth of oil??? give me a break, there are plenty of decades worth of oil here in the US alone.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,891
Likes: 1
From: Chicago
IMO, E85 is not being hyped to "replace" gasoline. The purpose of all the hype is to keep money out of the middle east. It doesn't necessarily keep the money in the US, as some of the biggest producers of crops that are processed into E85 are from central america. But we can work better on deals with those countries than "the princes". The unfortunate consequence is........have you seen the price of corn products lately? Damn cereal has doubled in like a year.
If you run only race gas on your setup, it is a awesome alternative......effectively about 105 octane rating and about 1/2 the cost of race gas (granted you have to run richer, bout 9.5/1, but in the area (Illinois) E85 is at 85% of the gas stations).
Just my opinion of course.
T
If you run only race gas on your setup, it is a awesome alternative......effectively about 105 octane rating and about 1/2 the cost of race gas (granted you have to run richer, bout 9.5/1, but in the area (Illinois) E85 is at 85% of the gas stations).
Just my opinion of course.
T
Originally Posted by Zivman
E85 is nothing more than hype. Decent octane rating, but beyond that has no legimitate place as an everyday replacement for gasoline. If not for subsidies, E85 would cost more than gasoline. The input costs/fuel exceed the fuel that is produced.
Diesel/biodiesel are the future. Not some BS E85.
And a few decades worth of oil??? give me a break, there are plenty of decades worth of oil here in the US alone.
Diesel/biodiesel are the future. Not some BS E85.
And a few decades worth of oil??? give me a break, there are plenty of decades worth of oil here in the US alone.
Fights On!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 94
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From: Texas
Originally Posted by G35JCC
Oil is my livelyhood and yours as well, if you didn't know. As a society the world is not prepared for the extinction of oil. I can assure you that if the oil dries up in the next few decades and we are not ready (which is currently the case)mass hysteria and who knows what else will immediately follow. Imagine that you will no longer have transportation to work, of course your place of employment will no longer exists shortly after depletion. Transportation will cease to exist, period. Communication will grow very difficult as well and eventually cease to exist at least to the point of which we are used to. Can you say Carrier Pigeon?
What about all the plastic that is around you? Can you guess what makes it? I'm sure you know. Thats right, Oil. Did you know that the volume of plastic produced in the U.S. surpassed steel in 1979?(MSN Encarta) How about all the heavy machinery that builds homes resturants, factories, grocery stores, hospitals, prisons, power plants, shelters, etc. Want to bulid these things and maintain them with amimals and pulleys? WTF will you use for the structure? Palm tree branches? How about the sewage systems. Most of the underground pipe is PVC. It is also made from oil. Once those examples deteriorate to nothing, what will happen then? Can you say prison overcrowding? Riots? Where will you go for an emergency? I can assure you there will be no help. It wouldn't be loing and many places would be without electricity. They would have to burn candles at night, but make sure the wax on the candle isn't parafin wax, because...that's right you guessed it, parafin wax is derived from oil. An expert in sociology or anthropology could tell you for sure, but I would give the world 5 years maximum to survive without oil. Now I could spent more time coming up with more proof as to why we need oil, but I think you get the point. Do you not agree now that making such a comment is inflamatory? I'm not mad at you and I'm not trying to be a smart ***. I just feel that what you said about oil was stupid.
What about all the plastic that is around you? Can you guess what makes it? I'm sure you know. Thats right, Oil. Did you know that the volume of plastic produced in the U.S. surpassed steel in 1979?(MSN Encarta) How about all the heavy machinery that builds homes resturants, factories, grocery stores, hospitals, prisons, power plants, shelters, etc. Want to bulid these things and maintain them with amimals and pulleys? WTF will you use for the structure? Palm tree branches? How about the sewage systems. Most of the underground pipe is PVC. It is also made from oil. Once those examples deteriorate to nothing, what will happen then? Can you say prison overcrowding? Riots? Where will you go for an emergency? I can assure you there will be no help. It wouldn't be loing and many places would be without electricity. They would have to burn candles at night, but make sure the wax on the candle isn't parafin wax, because...that's right you guessed it, parafin wax is derived from oil. An expert in sociology or anthropology could tell you for sure, but I would give the world 5 years maximum to survive without oil. Now I could spent more time coming up with more proof as to why we need oil, but I think you get the point. Do you not agree now that making such a comment is inflamatory? I'm not mad at you and I'm not trying to be a smart ***. I just feel that what you said about oil was stupid.(Sorry for the rant, I am constantly surrounded with this patter living in oil-country, and the only purpose it serves is to reassure the timid and prevent advances. We have got to move out of the 1960's).
Now, E85.......look at what Koenigsegg has done. Vastly powerful and very reliable. I would readily switch once some folks have sorted out what would work best for our vehicles.
I am old enough to have dealt with America's brief flirtation with ethanol/gas in 1977-1979 and the problems with corrosion, alcohol-water separation in colder climates, lower gas mileage, lack of public acceptance, etc. It will be interesting to see if things work any better this time.
Last edited by MrJax; Mar 21, 2008 at 11:18 PM.
Originally Posted by sentry65
seems like all you need is a standalone EMS (or possibly ECU flash) and bigger injectors. You can probably even switch between E85 and normal gas by switching tuning maps. E85 is not corrosive. All or most modern stock fuel systems are perfectly able to run E85 as long as the injectors and EMS are able to richen the A/F about 30%
pros:
-instant 20-25 tq across the board
-105 octane, can run - and E85 prefers more timing
-cools the engine a LOT, A/F = around 8.7 at redline and 9.8 at idle
-cleans engine/exhaust even better than water/meth injection
-$2.45/gal is cheaper than mixing premium and 101 octane race gas, even with worse mpg
cons:
-more frequent gas fill ups
-getting retuned
more info on where fuel stations and cost etc are:
http://e85vehicles.com/e85-stations.htm
and
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33448
pros:
-instant 20-25 tq across the board
-105 octane, can run - and E85 prefers more timing
-cools the engine a LOT, A/F = around 8.7 at redline and 9.8 at idle
-cleans engine/exhaust even better than water/meth injection
-$2.45/gal is cheaper than mixing premium and 101 octane race gas, even with worse mpg
cons:
-more frequent gas fill ups
-getting retuned
more info on where fuel stations and cost etc are:
http://e85vehicles.com/e85-stations.htm
and
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33448
The advantages outweigh the negatives especially for the power potential, protecting the environment and cost of fuel alone.
Last edited by IntenseFab; Mar 21, 2008 at 09:37 PM.