I see a lot of comments about the internal gated turbo on the APS setup being an issue. I think a simple search will reveal that TN has a reputation for overboosting. If you pair the APS kit with a proper exhaust, boost will not be an issue.

On top of that, I can't believe people like the TN placement of the turbo. Sure you ego maniacs get your rocks off seeing the turbo everytime you pop the hood, but functionally it hurts the setup. Tuners have a harder time tuning the TN due to increase charge temps. I think I remember reading one tuner stating 15* celcius higher charge temps vs the APS ST and other TT kits on the market. Then there is the issue of burnt A/C lines - and don't say it is because they don't follow instructions...the threads and posts continue to roll in. Then the whole issue of the the turbo choking out due to the small dump pipe, the turbo it self going out and smoking, etc, etc, etc.

The fact that you can get parts easier is a + on the TN, but from reading people's experiences with the kit, it always seems to have issues and thus, you always are in need of parts. So I think that negates any advantage...

Your money, your car, your decision. I would recommend a properly equiped twin setup over either single.... but my money would be spent on the APS single if I had to choose between the two

 

Ziv me and you have never seen eye to eye I can accept that but on every single thread you bash TN. I myself have stated bad things about APS and you know what maybe I am wrong for doing that. I can not name one kit for the z33 that is worry and issue free. Greddy, APS, PE and even TN has it's ups and downs. APS makes one hell of a bad-as$ TT kit ( extreme, correct me if I am wrong ) and almost every time someone inquires on the TN kit the first thing is the customers HP goals and based on that alone I would either recommend either one of the ST or TT kits. I'm sure many have had issues with TN but on the flip side many have had ZERO issues also. The same goes for the APS kit and the others. I would rather tell someone to do some research instead of asking what kit to buy since everyone will be baised to what they run. As you know Ziv aftermarket FI is expensive and not an easy choice to decide based on the number of kits out there and the different setups we have for the z33. I really hope you understand what I am saying and if anyone has issues with TN a simple call to TN solves the issue and yes the issues should not be there but name me a aftermarket FI that has ZERO issues.

 

i think if you were not going to go with a utec the deciding factor really should come down to the engine management and as was stated earlier i think that a fully tunable piggyback designed for boost is gonna out do a reflash all day long. If you were going to get a UTEC or something along with the kit then I honestly would say its a toss up and comes down to personal preference

 

The way I see it here Ziv is just posting his opinion and is entitled to it... and you guys have posted your opinions and are also entitled to them. Please don't start a flame war over it all, just agree to disagree

The OP can take all the opinions into consideration after all's said and done.

 

I will say I never HAD to have APS warranty any part from one of their turbo kits..TN on the other hand, we have had plenty of parts such as turbos fail with 50 miles on them. We had one compressor housing machined improperly and ate the turbine in less than 50 miles.
Most of the other issues in the TN are related to cracking pipes and burnt A/C lines as well as very high intake air temps...

 

Just curious which you're referring to?

 

I'll see if he wants to post. The guy I'm talking about isn't a board member, but has an APS ST setup / built block running 532 DJ... Also, there's another guy in the Mid-A about to throw an APS ST on a built block and push the crap out of it. I'm telling you, those turbos have potential. Yes - the external wg solution is a MUST for big power, but you can push those 35R's to 500+ wheel all day if you do it right.

You know what I'm planning for my car - but in the event it doesn't work out with the vendor, I'll be jumping on the APS bandwagon as well.

FWIW - I have absolutely NOTHING against the TN kits. I've seen great results from those setups on stock blocks with the right considerations. But I think that they were built for a stock block VQ and that's about all you can expect out of them. If you want a currently available ST kit on the market with potential to push 500+ on a built block - then TN simply won't get you there.

 

I thought maybe you were talking about JoeDirtPharmD. I think he was spraying too, though?

Those aren't true GT35R turbos. They're a bastardized APS variant of them. But I'm hesitant to think you could take it much farther than that. Maybe if you replaced the APS housing/s with some real garrett housings (if they would fit) and threw on an external wastegate...

As far as the Turbonetics kit not being for a built block, there was never an argument there. I think the limit with the turbonetics kit is around 470-490whp/500tq on a built block due to a number of factors. The design of the kit was for a stock or nearly stock car. I've always maintained that in any debate.

I'd be interested in seeing someone post 1/4mi times on an APS ST setup. The turbonetics powered cars certainly hold their own on the drag strip.

 

The bottom line is that its your car and your money. I find it comical that people state APS never needs parts warrantied or replaced. There's plenty of people who had failed turbo on their twin kit. Did everyone forget about the oil return pump/check valve fiasco? What about the APS ST exhaust that doesn't bolt up to their EW pipe without spending MORE money. People like tig488 NEVER got their car to work correctly with the APS ST kit. Every kit has had its share of issues. The choice is utilmately up to the end user but the track times getting put down by the Turbonetics powered cars can't be ignored. In the 70k+ miles I've had the kit on my car the only thing I have had to replace is the oil drain line and engine oil itself. I don't think I even need to bring up how much better Turbonetics is in the customer service department.

 

APS ST kit here, no major problems and loving it. Only "issue" per se was the smoke, but resolved with the ECV. Have had some other random issues with the motor, but that is another discussion. I should actually have another built motor during the winter downtime and will probably throw in some cams. Car will then be retuned and should be easily @ the 500whp range around 15-16 psi. I have no personal experience with the TN kit so I don't want to say anything negative (or positive). One of the main reasons I did not choose the TN kit was due to the turbo placement and the line issues. Obviously you can read up on the APS ST issues as well. Secondly, I live literally minutes from an authorized APS installer, with expertise with FCON, unichip, and utec. I didn't feel really confident of the TN reflash.

 

I think he was too. Meth? I'm not sure though. I know that he was running mid 400's with about 500ft lbs on his stock block, but again, I think he was spraying... We know the debacle that came out of his built motor issues, but I haven't heard anything about his setup since...

I agree. I think that mid-500whp is where you'd hit a wall with that turbo. I know that the wheel is in fact a 3582R, but that the housing is in fact custom. Fitment had a big role in that department. To hit the 500+ mark, you absolutely MUST have an external wg setup. APS makes a solution that's actually pretty good. The big complaint was for guys running the current APS ST setup with the APS exhaust that wanted to add the external wg pipe. The standard APS ST downpipe has a 4-bolt flange that will bolt right up to the APS ST exhaust, but not a stock 2-bolt y-pipe back exhaust. APS actually tried to remedy all of the beatings they took over this design decision by releasing the external wg solution with a 2-bolt flange. BUT the downside is that they effectively screwed any of the guys who had already bought the APS ST exhaust.... Some times you just can't win for losing. As far as overall design of the external setup. I wasn't a fan until I actually saw one in person. Very nice and completely effective at routing the externally divorced exhaust flow to an external wg as opposed to the actuator/collector pipe flange setup.

I agree about the track times. There's a ton of guys running down the 1/4 on a TN kit, but we seldom see or hear about anyone doing it with an APS ST kit. I'd be interesting in seeing if someone could push an APS car into the low 11's / maybe 10's (doubt it though).

For a lot of the reasons talked about in this thread, I've held off on going with one of the kits currently available. But I'm also growing impatient and know that I will be running some form of turbo FI solution by the end of the Winter come hell or high water. I'm also VERY curious to see what happens with your car. I'm sure you and JT will figure it out, but that's a topic for another thread...

Ok, enough ramblings

 

oh, and as far as the drag race numbers go.. a. I don't have any real interest in drag racing. & b. I'm pretty positive my clutch will be gone as it's border line @ the end of its tq range.

 

When you go for a retune with the new cam'd motor, you will most likely need a new clutch. Might as well start throwing a few bucks aside for a multiface carbon right now and have them throw it in when your motor situation is being resolved. Too bad the weather was crappy when I was down there, I would have let you take my car for a spin to get a feel for the ATS twin

 

^ we'll see... I think I want Tuan to "de-tune" or at least stop when he senses it starting to slip. Not prepared for another clutch at this point. I know, I'm in denial.

 

 

I have a TN kit (mine came with 440cc injectors ---?!?!) Heat soak I'll give ya. There is someone here local that had the APS TT professionally installed and has taken it back on several occasions because it smokes badly. That's just the way it is. If I had it to do again, I would stick with TN but do the tuner kit. (I run a UTEC and now need 550cc injectors) Another plus is the ease of installation on the TN kit.
PS I had to stop @ 419hp / 400tq because was @ 95% duty cycle on the 440cc injectors, when I replace that I HOPE to hit near 500rwhp on stock internals)

 

What's interesting is from what I understand is that denso core injectors liek Turbonetics uses are actually flow tested at a different rate than offerings form others such as RC. My understanding is they should flow at the equivalent of a 410-420cc RC injector. I haven't researched it much but don't doubt it.

My car put down 412/431 on a local Dynojet at 9.1psi with the denso 380cc's and Turbonetics reflash. It was hovering around 11.5:1 all the way to redline.

As far as 500whp, with the stock Turbonetics kit you're going to hit a brick wall at about 470whp where it bottlenecks and stops making good power with added boost. Hopefully with my car we will be able to pinpoint that bottleneck and offer a solution.

 

turbonetics ftmfw

 

I have the TN kit and love it. As soon as I went with a turbo XS exhaust with a custom 3" pipe to the muffler, I never seem to boost over 9 (cold weather only).

I had GTM wrap everything for protection and I got the car back running as if the turbo was factory trim. I think it's a good kit and anybody that purchases it should be happy providing a correct install and tune.

 

you're gonna run more than 10 psi on a stock block? good luck