short block build for s/c and 100 shot of nitrous
12-04-2007, 06:47 PM
#1
short block build for s/c and 100 shot of nitrous
performed a search for this info on this forum and on the net and did not find a solid ansewer. i am hoping some of the resident experts/ tuners /engine builders could chime in on this subject.i am planning now for a built short block to support a vortech s/c currently running 13 lbs of boost and on top of that i will be running a 100 shot of no2 to give me that mad tourqe performance factory achived on one of there latest projects with the nos on top of the vortech. mostly for track days when the extra hit is needed to turn some decent 1/4 times.
first question. what would be the optimal compression ratio to run on a vortech s/c setup using 100 octane religiously with water meth injection. reason i ask is for street driving i do not want to lose any substantial amount of power due to the reduced compression seeing that the no2 will not be used on the street hardly. but then again with the nos in use at the track i do not want to be in jeapordy of having detonation ruining my built engine.
secondly would a sleeved short block be needed for this setup or would that be total over kill? if i have left anything out please ask so i can get the planning stages of this build complete. oh and bye the way my z is already set up to support this type of power. via ecu, return fuel system, exhaust, injectors etc.etc. thank you.
first question. what would be the optimal compression ratio to run on a vortech s/c setup using 100 octane religiously with water meth injection. reason i ask is for street driving i do not want to lose any substantial amount of power due to the reduced compression seeing that the no2 will not be used on the street hardly. but then again with the nos in use at the track i do not want to be in jeapordy of having detonation ruining my built engine.
secondly would a sleeved short block be needed for this setup or would that be total over kill? if i have left anything out please ask so i can get the planning stages of this build complete. oh and bye the way my z is already set up to support this type of power. via ecu, return fuel system, exhaust, injectors etc.etc. thank you.
Last edited by JET MECH; 12-04-2007 at 06:52 PM.
12-04-2007, 07:10 PM
#2
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Originally Posted by JET MECH
performed a search for this info on this forum and on the net and did not find a solid ansewer. i am hoping some of the resident experts/ tuners /engine builders could chime in on this subject.i am planning now for a built short block to support a vortech s/c currently running 13 lbs of boost and on top of that i will be running a 100 shot of no2 to give me that mad tourqe performance factory achived on one of there latest projects with the nos on top of the vortech. mostly for track days when the extra hit is needed to turn some decent 1/4 times.
first question. what would be the optimal compression ratio to run on a vortech s/c setup using 100 octane religiously with water meth injection. reason i ask is for street driving i do not want to lose any substantial amount of power due to the reduced compression seeing that the no2 will not be used on the street hardly. but then again with the nos in use at the track i do not want to be in jeapordy of having detonation ruining my built engine.
secondly would a sleeved short block be needed for this setup or would that be total over kill? if i have left anything out please ask so i can get the planning stages of this build complete. oh and bye the way my z is already set up to support this type of power. via ecu, return fuel system, exhaust, injectors etc.etc. thank you.
first question. what would be the optimal compression ratio to run on a vortech s/c setup using 100 octane religiously with water meth injection. reason i ask is for street driving i do not want to lose any substantial amount of power due to the reduced compression seeing that the no2 will not be used on the street hardly. but then again with the nos in use at the track i do not want to be in jeapordy of having detonation ruining my built engine.
secondly would a sleeved short block be needed for this setup or would that be total over kill? if i have left anything out please ask so i can get the planning stages of this build complete. oh and bye the way my z is already set up to support this type of power. via ecu, return fuel system, exhaust, injectors etc.etc. thank you.
12-04-2007, 08:57 PM
#4
yeah i have been trolling my 350z for a year now and never joined. but now that i am getting ready to get serious with my s/c/nitrous project, i am trying to get all of my ducks in a row before dropping the cash on a built short block. removing the s/c and installing twin turbos was in the works but now i think the s/c/nitrous setup will be more fun. ultimately down the road twins will work there way on. the way i look at it the built short block will already be in place and after i am bored with the s/c/nitrous set up all i will have to do is purcahse the turbo system of my liking with some other minor upgrades.
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12-04-2007, 09:40 PM
#8
I havent seen any pistons with 9:5 but if it did I would get those. The fact that u wont be able to increase your psi levels like a turbo, u will need some hi compression pistons to see some good hp on a built block. I also think sleeving it would be a waste bc the highest hp vortech made only 510hp so gl with that one.
Also, what kind of setup are u running bc your tq seems really low even for a sc.
Also, what kind of setup are u running bc your tq seems really low even for a sc.
Last edited by Mr_pharmD; 12-04-2007 at 09:43 PM.
12-05-2007, 12:32 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
we have a Vortech with a 100 shot on it.
its very very fast. i would go with a 8.8 or 9 to 1 compression.
then tuning is the key...
its very very fast. i would go with a 8.8 or 9 to 1 compression.
then tuning is the key...
if a customer came into your shop and said i want to build my z with a vortech setup running 13 psi and a 100shot of nitrous on top of that for occasional track days, what would you reccomened to him?
what would you recommend to be done to the long block assmebly. ie, pistons,sleeves,compression ratio, cams, head work, ecu upgrade, etc.etc.....running 100 octane fuel and maybe water meth injection.
reason i ask is i am in the planning stages right now for this type of build. the only thing i am worried about is lossing any power due to the lowered compression ratio for when the z is operated on the s/c only during street use. one more note this car is not my dd . i direct this question to you seeing you have accomplished this just recently. thank you
Last edited by JET MECH; 12-05-2007 at 12:47 PM.
12-05-2007, 12:39 PM
#13
Originally Posted by JET MECH
if a customer came into your shop and said i want to build my z with a vortech setup running 13 psi and a 100shot of nitrous on top of that for occasional track days, what would you reccomened to him?
what would you recommend to be done to the long block assmebly. ie, pistons,sleeves,compression ratio, cams, head work, ecu upgrade, etc.etc.....running 100 octane fuel and maybe water meth injection.
reason i ask is i am in the planning stages right now for this type of build. the only thing i am worried about is lossing any power due to the lowered compression ratio for when the z is operated on the s/c only during street use. one more note this car is not my dd . i direct this question to you seeing you have accomplished this just recently. thank you
what would you recommend to be done to the long block assmebly. ie, pistons,sleeves,compression ratio, cams, head work, ecu upgrade, etc.etc.....running 100 octane fuel and maybe water meth injection.
reason i ask is i am in the planning stages right now for this type of build. the only thing i am worried about is lossing any power due to the lowered compression ratio for when the z is operated on the s/c only during street use. one more note this car is not my dd . i direct this question to you seeing you have accomplished this just recently. thank you
1.vortech v-2 sq trim ( rev up ) looking into Si trim right now!!!!!!!!
2.87 serp pully
32 jack shaft cog( originnally 34 )
28 s/c cog ( originally 32 )
gates belt vs, gator back. the goodyear belt suck's IMO.
no belt slip issues at this time YET!!!!!!! rev up system belt set-up seem's to be working very well.
13psi at 7100 RPM,(OVERSPEEDING BLOWER) even though i usually only rev to 6600. 11 psi at 6600.
this setup brings me back into the non revup vortech spec's which allows me to make more boost earlier in the rev range, and more peak boost.
2.MREV-2 lower plenum with 5/16 spacer plus aramid gasket kit.
3.stillen headers.
4.aps 2.5" down pipes.
5.aps 2.5" dual exhaust.
6.cjm stage 1 return fuel system.
7.rc 550 injectors.
8.stillen oil cooler.
9.custom s/c oil cooler i fabricated myself for s/c lubricating oil to keep the s/c temps down as much as possible.
10.u-tech piggy back with map sensor, plus remote map switch.
11.custom CAI i designed myself with 6" velocity stack intrgrated.
12.innovate A/F gauge
13.defi boost and fuel pressure gauges.
14. technosquare "L" FLASH on nissan ecu.
15.all FI ducting thermo wrapped.
16.AAM throttle body spacer.
17.custom dual catch can setup ( vented to atmoshpere ).
Last edited by JET MECH; 12-05-2007 at 12:49 PM.
12-05-2007, 12:44 PM
#14
Originally Posted by istan
^ I was like, damn I know someone who should look into this tread...Er, wait, it is you. 
Performance Factory uses more Nitrous than most dentists.
Performance Factory uses more Nitrous than most dentists.
12-05-2007, 01:15 PM
#16
yeah I'd love to see the results!
I was actually recently preparing myself to bite the bullet soon here during the next couple months on a 4.24 stroked built engine with headwork etc, but turns out I'm not going to need to afterall. My car recently has been misfiring and down on power, but as it turns out the issue was a coil in the process of going bad and would be ok at start up, then get worse. Just last night it started bubbling and then it was obvious what the issue was. Only code I was getting was the famous P300 multimisfire code and was flashing on the dash. The results of my compression test were really good (170-172psi, with one cylinder doing 178 psi) I'm still quite happy with the power my car has and it's more car than I'm a good enough driver for when it comes down to it. So I'm happy to stay with the stock block as long as possible and save the money for later
Anyway I was probably going to go with 9.5:1 CR in order to work with a larger blower like a T-trim if I someday switched to it. I wasn't really planning on nitrous though. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want another thing to deal with and the whole idea of a nitrous and gas line that could come loose in the engine bay and start a fire that I possibly wouldn't be able to put out.
9.5:1 CR is approximately 1.2% loss in power. Going to 8.5:1 CR would be closer to 4.3 % loss in power.
Whatever you do, don't get larger intake piping or the air will lose too much velocity at low rpms. Stick with the stock diameter intake piping IMO for best results. I just don't understand the point if the throttlebody is going to have the same diameter anyway. It's the same with headwork. You don't want the biggest opening possible, you just want the air to be able to easily curve into the heads
I was actually recently preparing myself to bite the bullet soon here during the next couple months on a 4.24 stroked built engine with headwork etc, but turns out I'm not going to need to afterall. My car recently has been misfiring and down on power, but as it turns out the issue was a coil in the process of going bad and would be ok at start up, then get worse. Just last night it started bubbling and then it was obvious what the issue was. Only code I was getting was the famous P300 multimisfire code and was flashing on the dash. The results of my compression test were really good (170-172psi, with one cylinder doing 178 psi) I'm still quite happy with the power my car has and it's more car than I'm a good enough driver for when it comes down to it. So I'm happy to stay with the stock block as long as possible and save the money for later
Anyway I was probably going to go with 9.5:1 CR in order to work with a larger blower like a T-trim if I someday switched to it. I wasn't really planning on nitrous though. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want another thing to deal with and the whole idea of a nitrous and gas line that could come loose in the engine bay and start a fire that I possibly wouldn't be able to put out.
9.5:1 CR is approximately 1.2% loss in power. Going to 8.5:1 CR would be closer to 4.3 % loss in power.
Whatever you do, don't get larger intake piping or the air will lose too much velocity at low rpms. Stick with the stock diameter intake piping IMO for best results. I just don't understand the point if the throttlebody is going to have the same diameter anyway. It's the same with headwork. You don't want the biggest opening possible, you just want the air to be able to easily curve into the heads
Last edited by sentry65; 12-05-2007 at 02:01 PM.
12-05-2007, 01:33 PM
#17
Originally Posted by sentry65
yeah I'd love to see the results!
I was actually recently preparing myself to bite the bullet soon here during the next couple months on a 4.24 stroked built engine with headwork etc, but turns out I'm not going to need to afterall. My car recently has been misfiring and down on power, but as it turns out the issue was a coil in the process of going bad and would be ok at start up, then get worse. Just last night it started bubbling and then it was obvious what the issue was. The results of my compression test were really good (170-172, with one cylinder doing 178 psi) I'm still quite happy with the power my car has and it's more car than I'm a good enough driver for when it comes down to it so I'm happy to stay with the stock block as long as possible
Anyway I was probably going to go with 9.5:1 CR in order to work with a larger blower like a T-trim if I someday switched to it. I wasn't really planning on nitrous though. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want another thing to deal with and the whole idea of a nitrous and gas line that could come loose in the engine bay and start a fire that I possibly wouldn't be able to put out.
9.5:1 CR is approximately 1.2% loss in power. Going to 8.5:1 CR would be closer to 4.3 % loss in power.
Whatever you do, don't get larger intake piping or the air will lose too much velocity at low rpms. Stick with the stock diameter intake piping IMO for best results. I just don't understand the point if the throttlebody is going to have the same diameter anyway. It's the same with headwork. You don't want the biggest opening possible, you just want the air to be able to easily curve into the heads
I was actually recently preparing myself to bite the bullet soon here during the next couple months on a 4.24 stroked built engine with headwork etc, but turns out I'm not going to need to afterall. My car recently has been misfiring and down on power, but as it turns out the issue was a coil in the process of going bad and would be ok at start up, then get worse. Just last night it started bubbling and then it was obvious what the issue was. The results of my compression test were really good (170-172, with one cylinder doing 178 psi) I'm still quite happy with the power my car has and it's more car than I'm a good enough driver for when it comes down to it so I'm happy to stay with the stock block as long as possible
Anyway I was probably going to go with 9.5:1 CR in order to work with a larger blower like a T-trim if I someday switched to it. I wasn't really planning on nitrous though. The more I thought about it, the more I didn't want another thing to deal with and the whole idea of a nitrous and gas line that could come loose in the engine bay and start a fire that I possibly wouldn't be able to put out.
9.5:1 CR is approximately 1.2% loss in power. Going to 8.5:1 CR would be closer to 4.3 % loss in power.
Whatever you do, don't get larger intake piping or the air will lose too much velocity at low rpms. Stick with the stock diameter intake piping IMO for best results. I just don't understand the point if the throttlebody is going to have the same diameter anyway. It's the same with headwork. You don't want the biggest opening possible, you just want the air to be able to easily curve into the heads
12-05-2007, 01:52 PM
#18
no prob
i should maybe mention though that I was thinking 9.5:1 CR, but I do run meth/water injection and have 101 octane at the pump near me so I'm already used to doing a 96 octane mix on my car.
If I wasn't going to possibly change blowers down the road, I might actually be tempted to do 10:1 or even stick with 10.3:1 CR. Reason being, with a bigger stroked engine, there'd be less boost pressure so the engine really wouldn't be as stressed
i should maybe mention though that I was thinking 9.5:1 CR, but I do run meth/water injection and have 101 octane at the pump near me so I'm already used to doing a 96 octane mix on my car.
If I wasn't going to possibly change blowers down the road, I might actually be tempted to do 10:1 or even stick with 10.3:1 CR. Reason being, with a bigger stroked engine, there'd be less boost pressure so the engine really wouldn't be as stressed
Last edited by sentry65; 12-05-2007 at 01:56 PM.
12-05-2007, 02:04 PM
#19
see that is why i relize it is so critical to get the right compression ratio when running a s/c setup on a built block. so many variables, fuel quality,s/c size and capacity and is there room to upgrade that particular s/c before having to step up to a different head unit that phsically might not fit. turbos are alot more flexable in this aspect. it is mostly just a matter of recalibrating of the wastegate for more boost unless you max out the capacity of the particular turbo. my fear is running the compression to low and lossing substantial power and having to step up to a T trim. and i know about the belt slipping problems some people have been having with the T trim! custom cog setups seem to be the only cure.
Last edited by JET MECH; 12-05-2007 at 02:08 PM.
12-05-2007, 02:12 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by JET MECH
see that is why i relize it is so critical to get the right compression ratio when running a s/c setup on a built block. so many variables, fuel quality,s/c size and capacity and is there room to upgrade that particular s/c before having to step up to a different head unit that phsically might not fit. turbos are alot more flexable in this aspect. it is mostly just a matter of recalibrating of the wastegate for more boost unless you max out the capacity of the particular turbo. my fear is running the compression to low and lossing substantial power and having to step up to a T trim. and i know about the belt slipping problems some people have been having with the T trim! custom cog setups seem to be the only cure.