Need help on install quote
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Buffalo, NY
We (Innovative Tuning) are doing the work for Pat and here's the other side of the story.
The job involved a lot more work than what he listed. Here is what has actually been done:
Remove Turbonetics turbo kit and FMIC
Remove engine, transmission, driveshaft
Swap front and rear non Brembo brakes to Brembo calipers, rotors, etc.
Swap rear diff assembly to automatic assembly
Swap sensors, accessories, etc. over to new engine, includes install clutch while engine was out
Remove B&M shifter and install stock shifter
Install CJ Motorsports fuel rails, FPR, return line kit, modify pump housing
Wire in new injector clips and install new injectors
Weld modified water pipe
Install Greddy TT Kit
Install Greddy FMIC kit
Install dual relocation external wastegate setup (atmosphere dump)
high temp coat exhaust manifolds, turbine housings, o2 housings
exhaust wrap exhaust manifolds, turbine housings, o2 housings and wastegate relocation and dump tubes
wrap fuel lines (heat protection)
install APS test pipes
replace A/C lines. wrap with heat protective wrap
install and wire in dual stage boost controller
install UTEC
install koyo radiator
clean up wiring
progressive meth kit install with tank and pump in trunk (about half done)
Pat told us he wanted a different water pipe installed after we already had the engine in the car and several other parts on. We had to remove the fuel rails, injectors, and lower intake manifold to install this pipe and then put them back on again.
Here's the basics of what we have left to do:
Weld on flange for Type RS BOV
rest of meth kit install
general cleanup and inspection
tuning
The current bill for labor is 2,500 and it will be about 3,000 when the job is complete. That doesn't include shipping on the exhaust parts and the coating processes, but that will be charged at our cost only. Parts are also separate. The only reason the labor charge is not considerably higher is we're giving Pat a large discount. The discount is there since my mechanic working on the car has done all the work on Pat's car in the past including his Turbonetics kit install several years ago and they've been friends a long time. He is the only customer I've extended this large a discount to.
Frankly I have no idea how Pat went from being my mechanic's friend, and I thought my friend, to accusing us of overcharging him online when I feel what he's being charged is nothing but fair. I think any reputable shop would look at that list of work and say our price is very low considering the volume of work and the care that we put into everything. This job would have easily cost $1000+ more at any other high quality shop, or at our shop if Pat was a regular customer.
I tried several times over the last couple days to get Pat to stop by the shop (he lives a couple minutes away) so we can go over his bill so he knows where the money is going. He wasn't willing to do that and instead is posting about the situation online. I've never had had a negative post like this about our shop and I wouldn't normally make a customer's billing matters online knowledge, but I was left no choice since he posted saying we only did about half of the actual work that was performed and overcharged him.
Mike McGinnis
Innovative Tuning
The job involved a lot more work than what he listed. Here is what has actually been done:
Remove Turbonetics turbo kit and FMIC
Remove engine, transmission, driveshaft
Swap front and rear non Brembo brakes to Brembo calipers, rotors, etc.
Swap rear diff assembly to automatic assembly
Swap sensors, accessories, etc. over to new engine, includes install clutch while engine was out
Remove B&M shifter and install stock shifter
Install CJ Motorsports fuel rails, FPR, return line kit, modify pump housing
Wire in new injector clips and install new injectors
Weld modified water pipe
Install Greddy TT Kit
Install Greddy FMIC kit
Install dual relocation external wastegate setup (atmosphere dump)
high temp coat exhaust manifolds, turbine housings, o2 housings
exhaust wrap exhaust manifolds, turbine housings, o2 housings and wastegate relocation and dump tubes
wrap fuel lines (heat protection)
install APS test pipes
replace A/C lines. wrap with heat protective wrap
install and wire in dual stage boost controller
install UTEC
install koyo radiator
clean up wiring
progressive meth kit install with tank and pump in trunk (about half done)
Pat told us he wanted a different water pipe installed after we already had the engine in the car and several other parts on. We had to remove the fuel rails, injectors, and lower intake manifold to install this pipe and then put them back on again.
Here's the basics of what we have left to do:
Weld on flange for Type RS BOV
rest of meth kit install
general cleanup and inspection
tuning
The current bill for labor is 2,500 and it will be about 3,000 when the job is complete. That doesn't include shipping on the exhaust parts and the coating processes, but that will be charged at our cost only. Parts are also separate. The only reason the labor charge is not considerably higher is we're giving Pat a large discount. The discount is there since my mechanic working on the car has done all the work on Pat's car in the past including his Turbonetics kit install several years ago and they've been friends a long time. He is the only customer I've extended this large a discount to.
Frankly I have no idea how Pat went from being my mechanic's friend, and I thought my friend, to accusing us of overcharging him online when I feel what he's being charged is nothing but fair. I think any reputable shop would look at that list of work and say our price is very low considering the volume of work and the care that we put into everything. This job would have easily cost $1000+ more at any other high quality shop, or at our shop if Pat was a regular customer.
I tried several times over the last couple days to get Pat to stop by the shop (he lives a couple minutes away) so we can go over his bill so he knows where the money is going. He wasn't willing to do that and instead is posting about the situation online. I've never had had a negative post like this about our shop and I wouldn't normally make a customer's billing matters online knowledge, but I was left no choice since he posted saying we only did about half of the actual work that was performed and overcharged him.
Mike McGinnis
Innovative Tuning
first, asking a shop not in the immediate vicinity is not going to get you a very accurate quote - especially considering most of the shops on here work almost exclusively on Z's and finding such a shop by you might not be that easy. Pricing for labor tends to be geographic by nature, and you're looking at a very long list of stuff being done. Not to mention, everyone is going to post their "I get hooked up price" - that's not always indicative of what everyone pays though.
That being said, with the above list posted, its easily 50 hours worth of work, not including the cost of coating things, etc. Add in the cost of then having to take things back out as you make additions, etc. If you go strictly by the book at $100 an hour (arguments sake), you're looking at a much higher labor bill, so what you are being asked to pay seems way more than reasonable.
That being said, with the above list posted, its easily 50 hours worth of work, not including the cost of coating things, etc. Add in the cost of then having to take things back out as you make additions, etc. If you go strictly by the book at $100 an hour (arguments sake), you're looking at a much higher labor bill, so what you are being asked to pay seems way more than reasonable.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; Dec 11, 2007 at 08:58 AM.
Originally Posted by MMC Racing
You must have a great shop up there then, but it doesn't mean that anyone elses price is too high. What AM is quoting is very reasonable.
Trust me, I am well versed in what a person should pay and it is all just a game and balancing act between the parts you buy, the hrs you are billed and then the rate you pay on those hrs. you want to bill me 60 hrs, that's fine, but it better not be at 110/hr.
To the OP, I hope things work out for you, but EVERY job is different and for you to expect someone on here to know the specifics of what you job entails is not going to happen. It sounds like there was much more involved than a simple motor swap and TT install.
i'm not the smartest person in the world.. but i would never question a shop that does work on my car publicly.. especially if they are on the same forum..
it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth and worse of all your car is still there..
what you should have did was p/m a couple vendors privately and keep the information to yourself..
now you look look shady and you still have to deal with the shop
it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth and worse of all your car is still there..
what you should have did was p/m a couple vendors privately and keep the information to yourself..
now you look look shady and you still have to deal with the shop
Originally Posted by doug
i'm not the smartest person in the world.. but i would never question a shop that does work on my car publicly.. especially if they are on the same forum..
it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth and worse of all your car is still there..
what you should have did was p/m a couple vendors privately and keep the information to yourself..
now you look look shady and you still have to deal with the shop
it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth and worse of all your car is still there..
what you should have did was p/m a couple vendors privately and keep the information to yourself..
now you look look shady and you still have to deal with the shop
I'm not trying to make the shop look bad or anything. I just want to get an idea of the time frame to install those parts and let him know what's the average time is.
Originally Posted by Inn-Tune
We (Innovative Tuning) are doing the work for Pat and here's the other side of the story.
The job involved a lot more work than what he listed. Here is what has actually been done:
Remove Turbonetics turbo kit and FMIC <==This had been charged and paid already and not included in this .
Remove engine, transmission, driveshaft
Swap front and rear non Brembo brakes to Brembo calipers, rotors, etc. *
Swap rear diff assembly to automatic assembly *whole complete pumpkin
Swap sensors, accessories, etc. over to new engine, includes install clutch while engine was out
Remove B&M shifter and install stock shifter *
Install CJ Motorsports fuel rails, FPR, return line kit, modify pump housing
Wire in new injector clips and install new injectors
Weld modified water pipeonly welded the plug not even take that long
Install Greddy TT Kit
Install Greddy FMIC kit
Install dual relocation external wastegate setup (atmosphere dump)SRVT relocation wouldn't 1 hour
high temp coat exhaust manifolds, turbine housings, o2 housingsSent out not done in house
exhaust wrap exhaust manifolds, turbine housings, o2 housings and wastegate relocation and dump tubes
wrap fuel lines (heat protection)
install APS test pipes*
replace A/C lines. wrap with heat protective wrap
install and wire in dual stage boost controller
install UTEC*30 minutes
install koyo radiator
clean up wiringDon't see wiring need to be clean up
progressive meth kit install with tank and pump in trunk (about half done)
It's Pathfinder coolant mod was supposed to be on the engine but GTM forgot it some how. But supposed to be install while the engine was out.
Pat told us he wanted a different water pipe installed after we already had the engine in the car and several other parts on. We had to remove the fuel rails, injectors, and lower intake manifold to install this pipe and then put them back on again.
Here's the basics of what we have left to do:
Weld on flange for Type RS BOV
rest of meth kit install
general cleanup and inspection
tuning
The current bill for labor is 2,500 and it will be about 3,000 when the job is complete. That doesn't include shipping on the exhaust parts and the coating processes, but that will be charged at our cost only. Parts are also separate. The only reason the labor charge is not considerably higher is we're giving Pat a large discount. The discount is there since my mechanic working on the car has done all the work on Pat's car in the past including his Turbonetics kit install several years ago and they've been friends a long time. He is the only customer I've extended this large a discount to.
Frankly I have no idea how Pat went from being my mechanic's friend, and I thought my friend, to accusing us of overcharging him online when I feel what he's being charged is nothing but fair. I think any reputable shop would look at that list of work and say our price is very low considering the volume of work and the care that we put into everything. This job would have easily cost $1000+ more at any other high quality shop, or at our shop if Pat was a regular customer.
I tried several times over the last couple days to get Pat to stop by the shop (he lives a couple minutes away) so we can go over his bill so he knows where the money is going. He wasn't willing to do that and instead is posting about the situation online. I've never had had a negative post like this about our shop and I wouldn't normally make a customer's billing matters online knowledge, but I was left no choice since he posted saying we only did about half of the actual work that was performed and overcharged him. Didn't say only half actual work was performed, Just said that it's not finished yet
Mike McGinnis
Innovative Tuning
The job involved a lot more work than what he listed. Here is what has actually been done:
Remove Turbonetics turbo kit and FMIC <==This had been charged and paid already and not included in this .
Remove engine, transmission, driveshaft
Swap front and rear non Brembo brakes to Brembo calipers, rotors, etc. *
Swap rear diff assembly to automatic assembly *whole complete pumpkin
Swap sensors, accessories, etc. over to new engine, includes install clutch while engine was out
Remove B&M shifter and install stock shifter *
Install CJ Motorsports fuel rails, FPR, return line kit, modify pump housing
Wire in new injector clips and install new injectors
Weld modified water pipeonly welded the plug not even take that long
Install Greddy TT Kit
Install Greddy FMIC kit
Install dual relocation external wastegate setup (atmosphere dump)SRVT relocation wouldn't 1 hour
high temp coat exhaust manifolds, turbine housings, o2 housingsSent out not done in house
exhaust wrap exhaust manifolds, turbine housings, o2 housings and wastegate relocation and dump tubes
wrap fuel lines (heat protection)
install APS test pipes*
replace A/C lines. wrap with heat protective wrap
install and wire in dual stage boost controller
install UTEC*30 minutes
install koyo radiator
clean up wiringDon't see wiring need to be clean up
progressive meth kit install with tank and pump in trunk (about half done)
It's Pathfinder coolant mod was supposed to be on the engine but GTM forgot it some how. But supposed to be install while the engine was out.
Pat told us he wanted a different water pipe installed after we already had the engine in the car and several other parts on. We had to remove the fuel rails, injectors, and lower intake manifold to install this pipe and then put them back on again.
Here's the basics of what we have left to do:
Weld on flange for Type RS BOV
rest of meth kit install
general cleanup and inspection
tuning
The current bill for labor is 2,500 and it will be about 3,000 when the job is complete. That doesn't include shipping on the exhaust parts and the coating processes, but that will be charged at our cost only. Parts are also separate. The only reason the labor charge is not considerably higher is we're giving Pat a large discount. The discount is there since my mechanic working on the car has done all the work on Pat's car in the past including his Turbonetics kit install several years ago and they've been friends a long time. He is the only customer I've extended this large a discount to.
Frankly I have no idea how Pat went from being my mechanic's friend, and I thought my friend, to accusing us of overcharging him online when I feel what he's being charged is nothing but fair. I think any reputable shop would look at that list of work and say our price is very low considering the volume of work and the care that we put into everything. This job would have easily cost $1000+ more at any other high quality shop, or at our shop if Pat was a regular customer.
I tried several times over the last couple days to get Pat to stop by the shop (he lives a couple minutes away) so we can go over his bill so he knows where the money is going. He wasn't willing to do that and instead is posting about the situation online. I've never had had a negative post like this about our shop and I wouldn't normally make a customer's billing matters online knowledge, but I was left no choice since he posted saying we only did about half of the actual work that was performed and overcharged him. Didn't say only half actual work was performed, Just said that it's not finished yet
Mike McGinnis
Innovative Tuning
Those with the * is little things that can be done really fast. Over all, I just want to let you get an idea how long it takes to install the major components. 20 to 30 hours to installed them.
Last edited by Z PHAT Z; Dec 11, 2007 at 04:55 PM.
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
first, asking a shop not in the immediate vicinity is not going to get you a very accurate quote - especially considering most of the shops on here work almost exclusively on Z's and finding such a shop by you might not be that easy. Pricing for labor tends to be geographic by nature, and you're looking at a very long list of stuff being done. Not to mention, everyone is going to post their "I get hooked up price" - that's not always indicative of what everyone pays though.
That being said, with the above list posted, its easily 50 hours worth of work, not including the cost of coating things, etc. Add in the cost of then having to take things back out as you make additions, etc. If you go strictly by the book at $100 an hour (arguments sake), you're looking at a much higher labor bill, so what you are being asked to pay seems way more than reasonable.
That being said, with the above list posted, its easily 50 hours worth of work, not including the cost of coating things, etc. Add in the cost of then having to take things back out as you make additions, etc. If you go strictly by the book at $100 an hour (arguments sake), you're looking at a much higher labor bill, so what you are being asked to pay seems way more than reasonable.
. I brought this up with the shop so that It won't take another 15 to 20 hours more to finished the job. I just want a cap on the hours of labor. I've talked to him about this matter and he wanted me to get an idea of how long it take s to finished this kind of job. No harm intened for this post.
Originally Posted by doug
all this stuff should be hashed out in the shop.. not on a public forum
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Plano TX, Queens NY
Originally Posted by Z PHAT Z
I did a search and didn't find what I wanted to know. Well My car is being put together and my shop is looking for a quote to see how long it takes to install the folllowing items:
1. Swap in the built motor with timing and accessories intact/completed.
2. Install Greddy TT kit while the engine is out.
3. Install after market clutch while the engine/tranny is out.
4. Install CJM fuel system.
So Shops/Vendors please chime in. Thanks. This is just for install time of those items.
1. Swap in the built motor with timing and accessories intact/completed.
2. Install Greddy TT kit while the engine is out.
3. Install after market clutch while the engine/tranny is out.
4. Install CJM fuel system.
So Shops/Vendors please chime in. Thanks. This is just for install time of those items.
Originally Posted by rb26ina240
40 hrs min, $3500min
Originally Posted by JAMEZ
be prepared to be without your car for like 2 week though
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Buffalo, NY
Pat responded to me this morning after I offered to stop by his restaurant with Justin (mechanic) so he didn't have to drive here to talk this out. We're real close by, but I know he's busy like we are. He said he'll stop by Monday so we can go over the bill.
rb26ina240 and Jamez, thank you for your input. Your numbers for those items he listed sound good to me. Pat's bill is less than that because of the hookup despite us doing what many more hours of work than what he listed there.
Hey Dave it's been a while. How about a friendly pull next year with my Suby? Either way I'm really curious to see how your car looks and runs with all the weight reduction and other work you talked about.
Yup Pat's car has been here for 2 months. Pat knew we had several jobs lined up ahead of his, but he had sold the Turbonetics turbo kit on the car so it was coming apart anyways and the season was ending. I said we'd store the car no charge til we could work on it. He wants it done for the 2008 season and that's months of snow and salt away so there's no rush, but we want to finish it up since we have other projects going on.
I think I've explained the situation and it's not an online matter so I'll stop here. Pat I look forward to sorting out any confusion you have with the bill on Monday.
rb26ina240 and Jamez, thank you for your input. Your numbers for those items he listed sound good to me. Pat's bill is less than that because of the hookup despite us doing what many more hours of work than what he listed there.
Originally Posted by Dirty Dave
LOL I know pat and live near him and I can tell ya its been alot longer than 2 weeks since his car has been apart.
How about a friendly pull next year with my Suby? Either way I'm really curious to see how your car looks and runs with all the weight reduction and other work you talked about. Yup Pat's car has been here for 2 months. Pat knew we had several jobs lined up ahead of his, but he had sold the Turbonetics turbo kit on the car so it was coming apart anyways and the season was ending. I said we'd store the car no charge til we could work on it. He wants it done for the 2008 season and that's months of snow and salt away so there's no rush, but we want to finish it up since we have other projects going on.
I think I've explained the situation and it's not an online matter so I'll stop here. Pat I look forward to sorting out any confusion you have with the bill on Monday.
Last edited by Inn-Tune; Dec 12, 2007 at 08:33 AM.
Originally Posted by Inn-Tune
Pat responded to me this morning after I offered to stop by his restaurant with Justin (mechanic) so he didn't have to drive here to talk this out. We're real close by, but I know he's busy like we are. He said he'll stop by Monday so we can go over the bill.
rb26ina240 and Jamez, thank you for your input. Your numbers for those items he listed sound good to me. Pat's bill is less than that because of the hookup despite us doing what many more hours of work than what he listed there.
Hey Dave it's been a while. How about a friendly pull next year with my Suby? Either way I'm really curious to see how your car looks and runs with all the weight reduction and other work you talked about.
Yup Pat's car has been here for 2 months. Pat knew we had several jobs lined up ahead of his, but he had sold the Turbonetics turbo kit on the car so it was coming apart anyways and the season was ending. I said we'd store the car no charge til we could work on it. He wants it done for the 2008 season and that's months of snow and salt away so there's no rush, but we want to finish it up since we have other projects going on.
I think I've explained the situation and it's not an online matter so I'll stop here. Pat I look forward to sorting out any confusion you have with the bill on Monday.
rb26ina240 and Jamez, thank you for your input. Your numbers for those items he listed sound good to me. Pat's bill is less than that because of the hookup despite us doing what many more hours of work than what he listed there.
Hey Dave it's been a while.
How about a friendly pull next year with my Suby? Either way I'm really curious to see how your car looks and runs with all the weight reduction and other work you talked about. Yup Pat's car has been here for 2 months. Pat knew we had several jobs lined up ahead of his, but he had sold the Turbonetics turbo kit on the car so it was coming apart anyways and the season was ending. I said we'd store the car no charge til we could work on it. He wants it done for the 2008 season and that's months of snow and salt away so there's no rush, but we want to finish it up since we have other projects going on.
I think I've explained the situation and it's not an online matter so I'll stop here. Pat I look forward to sorting out any confusion you have with the bill on Monday.
). Yea no offence was aimed at your shop or work, I was just busting pat's *****. So it does'nt make you or your shop look bad, yes it was the end of the season and yes pat was not concerned about rushing the job just some friendly messing around since you both remember how long I was without my car with another business . I'll have to stop by say hi one of these days when I get a chance I only work literally 3 blocks from your shop on elmwood.
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