Forced Induction for Noobs.... - MY350Z.COM - Nissan 350Z and 370Z Forum Discussion



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Old 05-17-2008, 05:15 PM   #1
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Default Forced Induction for Noobs....

So, lately we have been seeing a lot of noobs coming on to the forum; asking the same questions over and over. As much as we love to flame them and tell them to use the damn search; they are still noobs. So I felt I would take it upon myself to write-up some info for everyone to read, and hopefully it will alleviate more “Which turbo kit is better” threads, and “I’m thinking of going F/I and I need some help” threads. If anyone sees something that needs to be changed please let me know. Thanks!

The Motors:

VQ35DE:

The VQ35DE motors as already been proven to be a pretty stout motor. A Stock motors with any type of forced induction is usually good to around 400-420whp, before you run into longevity issues. The week link in the VQ35DE motors is the stock connecting rods. I have seen people bend them trying to make over 420+whp for an extended period of time. Now granted, there are people that have made more power with the stock rods, but as I said.... you start running into the "How long is it going to last" questions.

The stock crank and stock sleeves have already been proven to handle 900+hp. Again, longevity and reliability are the two main points here. There is one company making 700+whp on the stock sleeves and stock crank for a very longtime now and the motor is still holding strong. Some people prefer to "Sleeve" there blocks. This is an added precaution to make sure the block last longer. Sleeves will allow you to run higher boost, and make more power reliably. If you choose to sleeve your block, do you homework and make sure you have a experienced machine shop do the work.

The stock VQ heads and cams are a thing of beauty. They flow great, and people still use them, un-altered, and are making over 700whp. There are companies out there that make a great alternative for cams. Brian Crower, JWT, Tomei, HKS just to name a few. Cams in the area of a 264 degree cam are what most people will upgrade to. Companies do make 272's, 268's, and even 280's, but the higher lobe duration you get, you will get a rougher idle.

VQ35HR:

With the success of the VQ35DE motor, Nissan decided to take the VQ motor one step further. Introducing the VQ35HR... a near identical 3.5L V6 to the DE platform, but with dual throttle bodies, beefier internals, and better engine components. The HR can easily make 450whp on a stock motor; something the DE can never amount to too (For a long period of time). If your hopes where to install a turbo kit, and some other goodies and have a 450-500whp daily monster... the HR is your platform of choice.

Nissan heard our cries of failing connecting rods of the DE platform, and gave us a much beefier setup to use. The heads were also slightly re-worked to get a few extra HP out of the HR. The limits of the stock HR motor have yet to be found. The only reason being is... a lot was learned from it's little DE brother. With the only option for F/I being Twin Turbo kits, F/I'd VQ35HR's are still fairly rare. If I had to guess... I would assume 550-575whp is going to be the failing point of the HR. Which is far beyond the capabilities of the DE.

For the brave souls out there who want to TT there HR; GTM, AAM, HKS, and Greddy have what you need.

I will be following this post with information on all the turbo kits available as well as info on fuel management options and accessories for forced induction.

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Old 05-17-2008, 05:16 PM   #2
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Turbo 101:

So the life long question of "What's better Single or Twins". Simple answer... both. It all depends on what you’re looking to use the turbo for. Are you strictly daily driving? Do you autocross, time-attack, drag race? You have to think about what you want to use your car for.

One of the easiest ways to explain the difference between the two is...

Twins - Gives you good low-end power and great mid-range, but lacks in the top-end. This is ideal for auto-crossing and time-attack. Twins will give you better response from the dig, and exiting corners. You have really good response in the low-mid range rpm's.

Single - Lacks in the lower rpm range but is great in the mid-range and top-end. This is the "ideal" setup for drag racing where your rpm's are mainly in the mid to upper range. The term “turbo-lag” is the time it tacks for the turbo to see boost. The bigger turbo you have the more lag you will get.

Singles are sometimes preferred for daily driving. For the fact that when you cruising at low-rpm's; your car is actually seeing vacuum rather then boost. This helps with the longevity of the motor. Others prefer twins for daily driving because you have more "useable" power when cruising around town. Though with Twins, your motor will see boost more often then a single.

Single Turbo Kits:

Turbonetics: The Turbonetics single turbo kit is probably the most common turbo kit for the 350Z. They are relatively inexpensive, and you can make 400whp with them on the stock motor. They make an ease of install with an ECU reflash that is included, offer catted and non-catted version for all you emissions guys, and is relatively easy to install.

Some of the things you see some people run into is warranty parts. Turbonetics has great customer service, which is a very good selling point, and allows for a simple fix when it comes to warranty parts. Another thing you see people run into is AIT; or Air Intake Temps. Turbonetics, because of the way the intercooler piping is design, runs higher air-intake temps then most. This could lead to detonation and/or heat-soak. With higher temps, you have to tune more conservatively to prevent future damage to the motor.

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made up to 500whp with the Turbonetics kits.

Fastest Current 1/4 mile time with a Turbonetics Kit: [email protected] 1.612 60ft

APS Single Turbo: The APS Single Turbo is another good choice for single turbo. The kit has been known to make over 400+whp with not many supporting mods. The quality of this kit is "better" (IMHO) then the turbonetics. The APS comes with better fuel components then the Turbonetics kit, and a better fuel management.

Some of the things you see some people run into is the turbo. Some forum member's have run into problem's with the cartridge that is in the APS turbo's, and often needs to be replaced. Most people usually end-up paying out-of-pocket to make these repairs.

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made 550+whp with the APS Single Turbo Kits.

Fastest Current 1/4 mile time with a APS Single Turbo Kit: N/A

Powerlab GT35R Kit: The Powerlab GT35R Single Turbo Kit is the most "complete" kit out there for the 350Z. It comes with the largest intercooler, the largest fuel injectors (600cc), and comes standard with a Turbo XS UTEC. This kit, with the right supporting mods, has made 600+whp. It is easilt upgradeable to a GT37R capable of making over 700+whp.

The downside is its the most expensive single turbo kit for the 350Z, and you have to give-up your windshield washer fluid resevior to install it. The kit is currently available for only 03-05 6MT 350Z's, but the 06+ and 5AT kits will be available soon. There isn't a lot of feedback yet for this kit, because it is still fairly new.

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made 600+whp with the Powerlab GT35R Single Turbo Kit.

Fastest Current 1/4 mile time with a Powerlab Single Turbo Kit: [email protected] 1.579 60ft

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Old 05-17-2008, 05:17 PM   #3
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Twin Turbo Kits:

Greddy Twin Turbo: Arguably the most common twin turbo kit for the 350Z. The Greddy twins kit has been known to make solid power out of the box. The Greddy Twins come with (2) Greddy 18G turbo's 440cc injectors, and Greddy E-manage. People have made in upwards of 600+whp with the right mods and this kit.

Some of the downside, if any, the intercooler is sold separately. Some might not see that has a "downside". The Greddy kit tops out at roughly 700whp. So BIG whp numbers are not there for those who are going "All Out". The Greddy E-Manage is not a favorite with the Z community. People do use it, but most opt for a UTEC or a Full Standalone.

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made up to 630whp with the Greddy Twin Turbo kits.

Fastest Current 1/4 mile time with a Greddy Twin Turbo Kit: [email protected] 1.567 60ft (This was with a TH350)

APS Twin Turbo Kit: Another great twin turbo kit for the 350Z, and is probably just as common as the Greddy Twins. The APS Tuner Twin Turbo kit features (2) GT2871R-1 internally wastegated turbos, cast turbo manifold, high capacity oil pan, and vertical flow intercooler. The APS Basic Twin Turbo Kit includes everything in the tuner kit, but adds fuels and engine managment. People have made upwards of 650+whp with the right supporting mods.

Some of the downside, the same as the APS Single Turbo kit, is the turbos. They have the same cartridge problem as the single kit, and some times require replacing. Also, this kit does NOT included fuel injectors or an engine managment. Some might not see that as a downside, because it will alow you to use whichever products you want.

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made up to 668whp with the APS Twin Turbo kits.

Fastest Current 1/4 mile time with a APS Twin Turbo Kit: [email protected] 1.790 60ft

APS Extreme Twin Turbo Kit: APS’s top of the line twin turbo kit. The APS Extreme Twin Turbo kit has been proven to be “Top-Dog” when it comes to big HP with twins. The kit includes larger GT Series turbos, 880cc injectors, APS Extreme Fuel System, and a 5” think vertical core. People have made upwards of 850+whp with the right supporting mods.

Some of the Down sides, well there aren’t that many; one being the price. This is not for the faint of heart. Expect to pay roughly $12,000-$15,000+ easily for this kit installed and tuned.

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made up to 860whp with the APS Extreme Twin Turbo kits.

Fastest Current 1/4 mile time with a APS Extreme Twin Turbo Kit: [email protected] 1.790 60ft

JWT Twin Turbo Kit: The JWT Twin Turbo kit has been know to be the most “OEM-like” turbo kit on the market. It makes for a very clean install, and it gives a very small power band. The kit comes in 3 variations; the 530BB kit, the 700BB kit, and the 850BB kit. The kit includes two Cast Manifolds, two Ball-bearing Turbochargers, FMU, Fuel Pump, Spark Timing Control Module, pop Charger w/ heat shield, and Oil Pan Spacer with Oil Return Line Kit. The difference between the kits is the 530BB comes with GT25 turbos, the 700BB kit comes with GT28 turbos, and the 850BB kit comes with GT30 turbos. People have made upwards of 600+whp with the 850BB kit.

Some of the downsides to the JWT Twin Turbo kit is, availability. You can only purchase this kit from an authorized JWT Turbo dealer, and they HAVE to do the install as well. So you’re limited on shops. If you don’t have one in your area…. Road trip! Another thing, and this really isn’t a downside, is the design of the twin intercooler setup. With an aftermarket bumper some find it to be aesthetically displeasing.

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made up to 700whp with the JWT Twin Turbo kits.

Fastest Current 1/4 mile time with a JWT Twin Turbo Kit: [email protected] 1.938 60ft

Power Enterprise Twin Turbo Kit: The Power Enterprise Twin Turbo Kit comes in three different setups; Complete, Sem-Full, Basic. The complete it contains Twin IHI turbos, high capacity oil pan, 380cc injectors, FMIC, fuel pump, and custom exhaust manifolds. The Semi-Full kit has everything in the complete kit, less the FMIC and oil pan. The Basic kit has everything the semi-full kit, less the fuel components. People have made upwarsd of 550+whp with the Power Enterprise Twin Turbo Kit.

Some of the downside is availability. Power enterprise is not known to have these on the shelf. So there usually is a wait for it. Also it is more on the expensive side. Not as expensive as an APS Extreme Twin Turbo kit, but close. This kit would max out a roughly 700whp, so BIG HP is not a goal with this kit.

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made up to 620whp with the Power Enterprise Twin Turbo kit.

Fastest Current 1/4 mile time with a Power Enterprise Twin Turbo Kit: [email protected] 1.740 60ft

Sound Performance Twin Turbo Kit: SP offeres one of the highest horsepower capable twin turbo kits on the market for the VQ. The kit includes a HUGE front mount intercooler, Blow-off Valve, 3" downpipes, and tubular manifolds. It is also one of the most expandable kits allowing you a dozen different size turbo options, including ball bearing or journal bearing turbo's, giving you horsepower options from 400-1200hp!

Downside, you will loose your washer fluid reservoir, Scavenge tank is low on the car for proper drainage so lowered cars will have to be careful, and being a kit with tubular manifolds and large turbo's it does require the motor to be pulled out for installation. Our kit does not include any Fuel components, or Engine Management.

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made 1033rwhp on a 3.5L VQ @ 30psi

Fastest Current 1/4 mile time with a SP Twin Turbo Kit: [email protected] on the stock 6speed transmission! Fastest 6speed in the world.

Superchargers:


Vortech Supercharger:


Stillen Supercharger: Some people prefer the roots style supercharger (That's the one that goes on top of the engine for you noobs), and that is where the Stillen Supercharger comes to mind. The Stillen Supercharger comes in 4 versions for the Non-Revup and 3 for the Revup engines. The Stage 1 comes with the Supercharger with New Upper and Lower Plenums, Install Kit and a FMU Control Box which is locked and it is claimed to give 369FWHP and 305FWTQ. The Stage 2 adds a water cooled Intercooler, Coolant Pump w/ Reservoir, Hoses, and Relays. Claiming 382FWHP and 313FWTQ. The Stage 3 adds a smaller pulley to the Stage 2 and claims 410FWHP and 339FWTQ. The Stage 4 adds a larger 7th injector, Smaller Pulley and an Upgraded FMU.

Some of the downsides of the Stillen Supercharger is the HP/Dollar you get. A lot of people feel you don't get the HP for the amount of money you spend. Also, you have to use Stillens hood with this kit, which a lot of people find ugly. They do offer a warranty for Stage 2 but not for Stages 3 and 4.

Fastest Current 1/4 mile time with a Stillen Supercharger Kit: [email protected] 1.984 60ft (Stage 2)

HKS Supercharger:


ATI Procharger:


VQ35HR Twin Turbo Kits:


Greddy Twin Turbo Kit: The kit uses Cast Iron Exhaust Manifolds, Greddy 18G or 20G turbochargers, Twin Inlet and Outlet Intercooler, External Wastegates, High capacity Oil Pan and a Greddy E-Manage EMS that piggybacks on the OEM ECU. Greddy claims it is good for 700+ horsepower. Of course, that would come with proper engine tuning and stronger internals (I.E. Pistons and Connecting Rods).

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made 475rwhp on a 3.5L HR @ 10psi (20G Turbos)

GTM Twin Turbo Kit: This kit uses nothing but the highest quality of parts. Featuring Cast Ductile Iron Exhaust Manifolds And Turbine Housing, 3.5"x13"x24" Intercooler (Rated for 1000HP), Steering Coupler, Twin Garrett BB Water & Oil cooled Turbochargers w/ HKS Internal Wastegate Actuator's (Standard), and Dual Tial 50mm BOV's. Optional Tial External Wastegates are available They are releasing 4 different stages of this product. Stage 1 featuring Twin GT28RS Turbos w/ a .64 A/R (Rated for 500HP), Stage 2 featuring Twin GT28RS Turbos w/ a .86 A/R (Rated for 700HP), Stage 3 features Twin GT3071 Turbos w/ a .64 A/R (Rated for 900HP), and Stage 4 features Twin GT3071 Turbos w/ a .86 A/R (Rated for 1000HP).

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made 467rwhp on a 3.5L HR @ 9.5psi (GTM Stage 1 Kit)

AAM Twin Turbo Kit: The Stage 1 kit is designed to support up to approx 550hp at the motor. AAM also has a Stage 2 and Stage 3 kit in development to support upwards of 800+hp. AAM's kits are unique in a sense that one can begin with an AAM Competition Stage 1 Twin Turbo Kit, and in the future, can easily upgrade to the Stage 2 and Stage 3 kit if one has the desire for a significant power increase (nearly all other kits on the market are not upgradeable, you have to sell the kit and start over if you decide down the road you want more power).

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Old 05-17-2008, 05:18 PM   #4
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Accessories/Supporting Mods:

Accessories and supporting mods are usually pretty important depending on the application. You can get carried away with accessories when comes to a forced inducted vehicle. These items include

- Gauges
- Trans/Oil Coolers
- Fuel Accessories
- Drivetrain Accessories
- Turbo Timers
- Boost Controllers
- Methanol/Water Injection

Most of these items are not needed, but aid in the longevity of your vehicle.

Gauges: Probably the most basic of accessories when it comes to a forced induction vehicle. Wideband Gauges, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, Water Temp, Water Pressure, EGT, Fuel Pressure are just a few of the things you can motor with gauges. The “basic” gauges, IMO, are Wideband (Air/Fuel Ratio) gauge, Oil Pressure, Water Temp. Monitoring you vehicles temperatures is vital to the longevity of the motor. Oil pressure is key to keeping your motor running properly. A/F is probably the most important. By monitoring your Air/Fuel ratio you can make sure your car is running at the optimum level. High engine temps can lead to costly repairs and serious damage… just read the forced induction section!

Coolers: Coolers covers a few different things, and they all deal with heat. Radiators, Thermostats, Fans, Shrouds, Oil Coolers, Transmission Coolers, Differential coolers all aid in fighting the never ending battle of heat. Keeping your engine temperatures down is vital to a strong and long lasting motor. For those of you who autocross and time-attack, keeping temperatures down is probably one of the most important things you can do. Radiators, Thermostats, and Radiator Caps are the most common accessories for cooling. Brands like Koyo, Fluidyne, AMS, and GTM all make radiators that provide superior cooling then the stock one. When adding a radiator; upgrading your hoses is a good idea as well. A good set of Samco Hoses never hurt anyone! Thermostats and Radiator caps are used to control when the coolant starts working. Aftermarket thermostats are design to “open” at a lower operating temperature then stock, allowing your motor to run cooler.

Oil Coolers, Power Steering Coolers, Transmission Coolers, and Differential Coolers are designed to cool the fluids that keep everything running. These are usually geared more towards those who race there cars frequently, but can be used in everyday applications. Again, heat causes these fluids to “burn” in harsh applications, and these coolers help keep everything cool. Companies like Greddy, ARC, and Stillen make these products for the 350Z, but a lot of universal application from Summit Racing work well to!


Fuel Accessories: Fuel Accessories cover injectors, Fuel Rail’s, Fuel Pump’s, Multi-Pump Assemblies, and Fuel Pressure Regulators. Upgrading your fuel injectors will depend on how much power you want to make. Fuel injectors will vary in size; 380cc, 440cc, 600cc, 880cc, 1000cc injectors are available for the VQ35DE motor. Injector size will depend on application. Larger fuel rails are sometimes needed when trying to push that extra fuel to larger injectors. They will usually have larger fittings on the end to run larger fuel lines. Fuel Pump’s and Multi-Pump assemblies are a must when pushing “Big” horsepower. I simple Walbro 255lph in-tank fuel pump upgrade will help get the fuel to the engine when trying to make up to 450whp, but when you depend MORE POWER a multi-pump assembly as a good investment. Companies like CJM make an in-take fuel-pump assembly that will hold (2) fuel pumps and are usually good to over 1000+whp. Fuel pressure regulators are another tool to dial in your fuel setup. Most regulators will have a psi gauge on it telling you how much fuel pressure you have.

Sometimes you will here the term “Return Style Fuel System”. Return style fuel systems will send the fuel that goes to the fuel rail back to the fuel tank. This will allow you to run more fuel to the motor without flooding it. Return style fuel setups are a must for big HP!

Drivetrain Accessories: Drivetrain accessories include Clutch, Flywheel, Valve body Upgrade’s, Clutch packs, and differentials. Putting power to the ground is just as important as being able to make the power. I mean if you’re making 550whp and you can put it to the pavement; then what’s the point! When it comes to manual transmissions, an upgraded clutch is usually in your near future after going F/I. The stock clutch is good to roughly 350-400hp, and how you drive will depend on that! Full-Face clutch disks, puck clutches, twin-disk, triple disk; there are various products you can order depending on your application. A lightened flywheel is another accessory to add when upgrading your clutch. A lighten flywheel usually gives you better acceleration, and allows you to put more power to the wheels. Less rotational mass = more power to the ground! For you automatic guys, upgrading your valve body and clutch packs to hold more power is important when you’re adding power. Companies like SGP and GTM offer great alternatives to hold 600+whp.

Upgrading your differential is also a good thing to do when trying to put power to the ground. Some models of the 350Z come with an LSD (Limited Slip Differential) from the factory. Companies like Kaaz, Tomei, Carbonetics, Cusco all make either 1.5 way or 2.0 way LSD’s for the 350Z/G35. A 1.5 way diff means it’s fully locked during acceleration but not locked during deceleration. A 2 way LSD is fully locked all the time. No LSD = One Wheel Tire Fire!


Electronics: Electronic accessories included Boost Controllers, Turbo Timers, and Data Loggers. Boost Controllers are probably the first electronic accessory people invest in. Boost controllers allow you to change the amount of boost your motor will run from inside your vehicle. Usually with the turn of a **** or the push of a button a you instantly have more power. Now…

***IF YOU ARE TRULY NEW TO FORCED INDUCTION DO NOT BUY A BOOST CONTROLLER!!!***

I say this as a friend. Boost is addicting. It’s like crack; you can’t get enough! When you drive a boosted vehicle for the first time, you will want more power, and you WILL turn up the boost. If not done properly this can leave to blown motors and extreme carnage!

Turbo Timers are also a good investment. A turbo timer allows you to run the vehicle for a set length of time (usually 30sec to a minute depending on how long the car was on for) after you have turned the key off and exited the vehicle allowing it a few additional moments to cool the motor, and allow the fluids to flow through the motor to keep everything nicely lubricated.

Data loggers are a neat feature to have if you are into any kind of racing. They will keep track of certain parameters of the vehicle for a period of time. When you’re done you can go back and analyze the data to see what your car is doing at certain point in time. RPM, A/F Ratio, Oil Temp, Fuel Pressure, Shift Points, Knock, etc can all be logged by time or rpm.

Methanol/Water Injection: Methanol injection is a great investment when going F/I. Methanol itself is NOT a power adder, but by doing methanol injection you can increase horsepower and keep your engine temps down. Methanol, when mixed with fuel, increases the octane level of the fuel from your tank. Kind of like running an octane booster. When you try to burn a higher octane you can make more power safer and more reliably, and you get a more complete burn too. Methanol also cools the air running into the engine; lowering the engine temps, and helping to alleviate detonation. Basically, when you run methanol, you can turn the boost up more to make more power safer. Injection systems can be controlled by a number of aftermarket EMS systems or have there own independent controllers. So you can set it to come on when you see certain boost level to help make more power safer.

Manufacturer Links:

Jim Wolf Technology Twin Turbo Kit

Turbonetics Single Turbo Kit

Greddy Twin Trubo Kit

Powerlan GT35R Turbo Kit

APS Turbo Kits

Power Enterprise Twin Turbo Kit

Vortech Supercharger

Stillen Supercharger

HKS Supercharger

ATI Procharger

CJM Fuel Systems

Last edited by SlideFox; 05-19-2008 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 05-17-2008, 05:54 PM   #5
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Nice writeup
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Old 05-17-2008, 05:56 PM   #6
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Nice. Should help.
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Old 05-17-2008, 06:15 PM   #7
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nice write up, unfortuneately, this thread will soon fall off to the second page and will get missed again. almost as many threads started by noobs asking silly questions, is nearly the number of threads like this have been done to try and help eliminate them.
there really is a good reason i hardly post anymore, and it is becasue all the questions being asked, me and others have answered SOOO many times. never gunna stop no matter what.
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Old 05-17-2008, 06:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overZealous1
nice write up, unfortuneately, this thread will soon fall off to the second page and will get missed again. almost as many threads started by noobs asking silly questions, is nearly the number of threads like this have been done to try and help eliminate them.
there really is a good reason i hardly post anymore, and it is becasue all the questions being asked, me and others have answered SOOO many times. never gunna stop no matter what.
Will if the mods find my info valid, maybe they can sticky this thread for all the noobs to read.
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Old 05-17-2008, 06:27 PM   #9
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i thought there already was some stickies, but looks they are gone, hmmm.
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Old 05-17-2008, 06:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overZealous1
i thought there already was some stickies, but looks they are gone, hmmm.
LOL, I checked to see if there was a sticky already before I did all this typing!
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:05 PM   #11
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awesome write up man, helped answer a lot my questions...that i was to afraid to ask you guys cuz i didn't wanna get flamed like the other nOObs haha
will you be giving any info on superchargers?
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pony_killer
awesome write up man, helped answer a lot my questions...that i was to afraid to ask you guys cuz i didn't wanna get flamed like the other nOObs haha
will you be giving any info on superchargers?
No Problem! That is why I am writting this.

Yes, I will be providing info on Superchargers as well. The only F/I thing that I will not be writing about is Nitrous.

More info to follow!
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:08 PM   #13
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The noobs will still ask...........
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:09 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by THE ROADSTER
The noobs will still ask...........
I know this isn't going to solve our problem, but it will help.
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:11 PM   #15
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+1 on sticky
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:31 PM   #16
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Hopefully this thread does get stickied so that noobs don't constantly push the important threads with good info off of the first page with the same redundant questions. Great job Slidefox.
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:32 PM   #17
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^^ Thanks Hex!
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:54 PM   #18
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No problem. BTW, I think it would be a good idea to post this up on Driver too. We don't get these noobish questions as often on Driver but they do still pop up.
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Old 05-17-2008, 08:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hexxum001
No problem. BTW, I think it would be a good idea to post this up on Driver too. We don't get these noobish questions as often on Driver but they do still pop up.
I plan on it, as soon as I get the full write-up done.
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Old 05-17-2008, 08:07 PM   #20
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I have a lot of the missing information already typed-up; I just need to post it. I will have all of the info up within the next day or so.

Tee time is @ 6:45 tomorrow and I need some sleep!
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