First Time Posting my Car Build. Fully Built APS TT Setup starts.
09-30-2008, 01:25 PM
#21
Here's my input having had my car for over 4 yrs now and having gone through two builds..
List of Parts:
MID sleeves <- don't do it. Not needed and will just be an additional expense
8.5:1 or 9.0:1 compression (havn't decided) <- either will be fine. I would probably go with 9:1
Hbeam Connecting rods <- brand? If you are going H-beam, just go with the cheaper Eagle rods
ARP studs all of them <- Important to know which ones.. standard ARP for mains and L19 for the heads
titanium valve springs and retainers <-JWT springs may be cheaper than what you have decided on, and should work just fine for 7100 rpm redline
port and polished and 5 angle valve job
ferra 1mm oversized valves
^ I will just say, for the money, doing a full 1mm over is not worth it. Head work won't hold you back
Kinetix SSV intake manifold <- unless you want your build to be considered a joke, don't use this plenum. Look into an APS or crawford... heck, even a stock plenum is better than the SSV
either 268 or 272 cams (havnt decided) <- from my experience go with the more agressive cams. I wold go with the BC stage 2 or 3
polyurethane motor mounts <- can't see them beeing needed :dunno:
looking at mishimoto radiator or ARC radiator <- I think the mishimoto will be cheaper. Also consider the Koyo
APS TT tuner kit <-fine
APS Extreme Fuel system <- I am personally running this fuel system. I would not recommend it. It is quirky. Your fuel pressure will dip once you go below half a tank. it has syphoning issues as well. from my experience, get a CJM setup
ARC diversion plate
Synapse BOV
Synapse WG <- not sure why you would need to swap out the WG???
Greddy profec II boost controller <- garbage - get an HKS EVC VI
Greddy turbo timer <- not needed
All Defi gauges and XUD heads up display unit
innovate motor LC1 duo wide bands
^ as far as gauges go, just do it right and get the Fcon Vpro EMS and hook that up with the Camp2 to monitor it all
3" Down pipes <- these are supplied with the APS kit
Greddy evo TT exhaust <- fine, just remove the bottlekneck
Pmass MAF for 600+ hp <- not even sure what this is, but I can say, whether you are running the Fcon or haltech, you will be running a MAP sensor, not some sort of MAF
JIC magic FLT-A2 coil overs
front and rear adjustable A arms
adjustable radius arm
Traction rods
DSS level 5 drive shafts
JIC magic Tie Rods
Carbonetics twin disc clutch or OSgiken twin disc clutch
Quaife LSD or Carbonetics LSD
Chromoly Tranny Gears for stronger gears <- OK, was unaware that these actually were available. If they are, I bet they cost 2-3 times what a new trans cost
greddy strut bar
Tuned by UP Rev Austin Texas stock ECU <- thinking you will be much better off with a Vpro or Haltech
nismo low temp thermostat <- not needed, waste of money
Steel Braided clutch line and brake lines
Cross drilled Rotors front and rear for my Brembos
oil catch can
im probably missing a few other parts thats not coming to mind right now but i still need to sit down and discuss some of the parts with shop doing my car while im away in IRAQ. the car should be going into the shop end of this week and im not going to be back home till Jan. 31 2009.
Parts havnt decided on:
Snow Performance Water/Meth Kit
One Lug OLW 19" staggerd set
Advan Super Ver. 2 19" staggerd set
Ings+1 type N body kit
Ings+1 hood
Id like to hear both sides from you guys pros and cons maybe you can offer me some parts i might want to change for others or some parts i have missed. ive seen so many different things here in a short period of time ive looked around. and for the most part is the build capable of my 700whp im shooting for if not wha would i have to change to attain my 700whp ill be happy with 650whp also lol.
Ive read a couple of the builds here but i havnt seen many APS TT's im shooting for 700whp on pump gas im not sure if i will make it but im trying to build a very reliable DD. im over building my motor both top and bottom and reinforcing all of my drive train as much as i can. the build is going to go a 2 part build where its going to go fast first since its the most expensivfe part of the build. then once im home ill do all of the extra suspension parts tie rods, sway bars, exterior,
Thanks for taking the time and checking out my build and for giving me some knowledge on parts that i might have over looked.
VQ35DETT PWR FTW
Overall, it looks like you haven't properly done your homework. You have parts in there like the SSV that are a complete joke along with parts that are not needed. To me, it sounds like you are just trying to spend money 
Then you throw in crap parts like the greddy boost controller? I don't know a lot about the potential of the uprev tuning option, but I am fairly sure it will be out of its element with your setup. You will need to look into something like the Haltech or Fcon Vpro.
to sum up, you have more research to do before committing to any shop based on the parts you listed above
List of Parts:
MID sleeves <- don't do it. Not needed and will just be an additional expense
8.5:1 or 9.0:1 compression (havn't decided) <- either will be fine. I would probably go with 9:1
Hbeam Connecting rods <- brand? If you are going H-beam, just go with the cheaper Eagle rods
ARP studs all of them <- Important to know which ones.. standard ARP for mains and L19 for the heads
titanium valve springs and retainers <-JWT springs may be cheaper than what you have decided on, and should work just fine for 7100 rpm redline
port and polished and 5 angle valve job
ferra 1mm oversized valves
^ I will just say, for the money, doing a full 1mm over is not worth it. Head work won't hold you back
Kinetix SSV intake manifold <- unless you want your build to be considered a joke, don't use this plenum. Look into an APS or crawford... heck, even a stock plenum is better than the SSV
either 268 or 272 cams (havnt decided) <- from my experience go with the more agressive cams. I wold go with the BC stage 2 or 3
polyurethane motor mounts <- can't see them beeing needed :dunno:
looking at mishimoto radiator or ARC radiator <- I think the mishimoto will be cheaper. Also consider the Koyo
APS TT tuner kit <-fine
APS Extreme Fuel system <- I am personally running this fuel system. I would not recommend it. It is quirky. Your fuel pressure will dip once you go below half a tank. it has syphoning issues as well. from my experience, get a CJM setup
ARC diversion plate
Synapse BOV
Synapse WG <- not sure why you would need to swap out the WG???
Greddy profec II boost controller <- garbage - get an HKS EVC VI
Greddy turbo timer <- not needed
All Defi gauges and XUD heads up display unit
innovate motor LC1 duo wide bands
^ as far as gauges go, just do it right and get the Fcon Vpro EMS and hook that up with the Camp2 to monitor it all
3" Down pipes <- these are supplied with the APS kit
Greddy evo TT exhaust <- fine, just remove the bottlekneck
Pmass MAF for 600+ hp <- not even sure what this is, but I can say, whether you are running the Fcon or haltech, you will be running a MAP sensor, not some sort of MAF
JIC magic FLT-A2 coil overs
front and rear adjustable A arms
adjustable radius arm
Traction rods
DSS level 5 drive shafts
JIC magic Tie Rods
Carbonetics twin disc clutch or OSgiken twin disc clutch
Quaife LSD or Carbonetics LSD
Chromoly Tranny Gears for stronger gears <- OK, was unaware that these actually were available. If they are, I bet they cost 2-3 times what a new trans cost
greddy strut bar
Tuned by UP Rev Austin Texas stock ECU <- thinking you will be much better off with a Vpro or Haltech
nismo low temp thermostat <- not needed, waste of money
Steel Braided clutch line and brake lines
Cross drilled Rotors front and rear for my Brembos
oil catch can
im probably missing a few other parts thats not coming to mind right now but i still need to sit down and discuss some of the parts with shop doing my car while im away in IRAQ. the car should be going into the shop end of this week and im not going to be back home till Jan. 31 2009.
Parts havnt decided on:
Snow Performance Water/Meth Kit
One Lug OLW 19" staggerd set
Advan Super Ver. 2 19" staggerd set
Ings+1 type N body kit
Ings+1 hood
Id like to hear both sides from you guys pros and cons maybe you can offer me some parts i might want to change for others or some parts i have missed. ive seen so many different things here in a short period of time ive looked around. and for the most part is the build capable of my 700whp im shooting for if not wha would i have to change to attain my 700whp ill be happy with 650whp also lol.
Ive read a couple of the builds here but i havnt seen many APS TT's im shooting for 700whp on pump gas im not sure if i will make it but im trying to build a very reliable DD. im over building my motor both top and bottom and reinforcing all of my drive train as much as i can. the build is going to go a 2 part build where its going to go fast first since its the most expensivfe part of the build. then once im home ill do all of the extra suspension parts tie rods, sway bars, exterior,
Thanks for taking the time and checking out my build and for giving me some knowledge on parts that i might have over looked.
VQ35DETT PWR FTW
Then you throw in crap parts like the greddy boost controller? I don't know a lot about the potential of the uprev tuning option, but I am fairly sure it will be out of its element with your setup. You will need to look into something like the Haltech or Fcon Vpro.to sum up, you have more research to do before committing to any shop based on the parts you listed above
09-30-2008, 08:53 PM
#23
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the times over here in iraq are like opposite from you guys back home so i dont get to be one when you guys are on. but much thanks to all the info you guys are giving me. it was about time i posted up my build to get some good info back b4 dropping the car off at the shop. im seeing parts that i had other choices on. the plenum i had a different choice in mind as well. liked my buddy's crawford one. all that mentioned the sleeves thanks on the Daily drivability with sleeves installed. it will be scratched off. on the rods i got off the phone today with the shop it will be pauder rods with CP or Wiseco pistons which ever has the best deal for him.
on the boost controller im curious what would be the difference from the greddy vs. the hks? im just looking for a electronic BC that i can adjust from the inside with 2 stage low and high boost nothing to fancy.
on the EMS i still have it on my mind but i want to try with the uprev tunning shop i saw a 500+hp 350zTT they had in shop they were working on and is running on the stock ECU with their programing with the upgraded MAF. and its a item that if works with my setup its something new that hasnt been explored yet which will be interesting for everyone.
thanks all of you for the much needed info.
on the boost controller im curious what would be the difference from the greddy vs. the hks? im just looking for a electronic BC that i can adjust from the inside with 2 stage low and high boost nothing to fancy.
on the EMS i still have it on my mind but i want to try with the uprev tunning shop i saw a 500+hp 350zTT they had in shop they were working on and is running on the stock ECU with their programing with the upgraded MAF. and its a item that if works with my setup its something new that hasnt been explored yet which will be interesting for everyone.
thanks all of you for the much needed info.
09-30-2008, 09:16 PM
#24
on the EMS i still have it on my mind but i want to try with the uprev tunning shop i saw a 500+hp 350zTT they had in shop they were working on and is running on the stock ECU with their programing with the upgraded MAF. and its a item that if works with my setup its something new that hasnt been explored yet which will be interesting for everyone.
thanks all of you for the much needed info.
thanks all of you for the much needed info.
Also, I have yet to see a SINGLE Osiris uprev on a built TT Z. I don't know much about that unit, but it was never one recommended to me from anybody when I went to purchase an EMS for my build.
10-01-2008, 04:38 AM
#27
Point me to good info on how the uprev tuning on the stock ECU will handle 15+ psi.
10-01-2008, 05:16 AM
#28
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i wish i could get you more info for you on the uprev tunning but i wont be able to from here in iraq. i made several trips to austin already and tuned the car there and talked much with them on using them on my TT build most i can do from here is get u the phone number so u can call them and talk with them the actual tuner is jared the shops phone number is 512-538-4856. be the best to do and talk with them directly. they have great customer service. its a small shop out there with like 3-4 people working there. and they just expanded and bought some more space and opening a shop to start some builds in house. that was before i came out here. they are currently doing the programming for the HR motors i dunno if they have finished it or not. once i get back home on vacation in november ill be able to get you better info and maybe the car should be on its way to finishing maybe. but it will be something that i can give the cmmunity for another ecu solution if someone is on a budget you guys have helped me alot be glad to give something back specially since they are up my ally 45 min away. if it works it works if it doesnt ill pick up a ems but its something someone explored ill be glad to.
once the car is in shop they will be taking pics of the full build from start to finish and he isnt going to buy anything without contacting me before any stage of the build so we can discuss things before he purchases items. he knows im on a budget even tho its a high budget its still a budget im trying to stay within for the full build.
once the car is in shop they will be taking pics of the full build from start to finish and he isnt going to buy anything without contacting me before any stage of the build so we can discuss things before he purchases items. he knows im on a budget even tho its a high budget its still a budget im trying to stay within for the full build.
10-01-2008, 05:38 AM
#29
i wish i could get you more info for you on the uprev tunning but i wont be able to from here in iraq. i made several trips to austin already and tuned the car there and talked much with them on using them on my TT build most i can do from here is get u the phone number so u can call them and talk with them the actual tuner is jared the shops phone number is 512-538-4856. be the best to do and talk with them directly. they have great customer service. its a small shop out there with like 3-4 people working there. and they just expanded and bought some more space and opening a shop to start some builds in house. that was before i came out here. they are currently doing the programming for the HR motors i dunno if they have finished it or not. once i get back home on vacation in november ill be able to get you better info and maybe the car should be on its way to finishing maybe. but it will be something that i can give the cmmunity for another ecu solution if someone is on a budget you guys have helped me alot be glad to give something back specially since they are up my ally 45 min away. if it works it works if it doesnt ill pick up a ems but its something someone explored ill be glad to.
once the car is in shop they will be taking pics of the full build from start to finish and he isnt going to buy anything without contacting me before any stage of the build so we can discuss things before he purchases items. he knows im on a budget even tho its a high budget its still a budget im trying to stay within for the full build.
once the car is in shop they will be taking pics of the full build from start to finish and he isnt going to buy anything without contacting me before any stage of the build so we can discuss things before he purchases items. he knows im on a budget even tho its a high budget its still a budget im trying to stay within for the full build.
if it is a manipulation of the stock ECU, I still say you should invest in an Fcon or Haltech. They are proven tuning solutions.
edit:
Reading uprev's website, it sounds very similar to technosquare or cobb tuning. Neither of which I personally would consider for a boosted vehicle like you plan on building. I don't think I am alone in stating that the build will be a bust if you don't pick the proper tuning solution. It is my opinion that if you choose some sort of reflashed ECU, your build will be compromised. Given your budget that you sent me via PM, you can easily fit in a proper EMS.
Last edited by Zivman; 10-01-2008 at 05:46 AM.
10-01-2008, 01:41 PM
#30
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That 500+hp car at UpRev has been there for a while. They tuned my NA 350z two years ago and was very happy with it, they are always at the shop and will answer any questions you have; however I would not put a $20-30k build in the hands of the stock ECU. The UpRev guys are great and know what they are talking about but I HIGHLY suggest using something that has put down 600+hp "safely", ie: Fcon, Halltech, ProEFI. I do know one guy on the boards, not going to name names, that had problems when they tuned his boosted (TN) Z, he put down 350ishrwhp for a couple of weeks and his motor let go (he had the stock TN tune on it and it ran fine for 2 years before the Uprev tune). Its not UpRevs fault per say (b/c they are some of the smartest guys Ive talked to), its the lack of ability of the stock ecu/maf to handle the job of boost.
Summary: don't put your build in the hands of the stock ecu! Since you are in TX, go to SGP or Jotech. OR ship the car out to FP, PF, Intense, PFS, ... they have done many 600+hp cars!
Summary: don't put your build in the hands of the stock ecu! Since you are in TX, go to SGP or Jotech. OR ship the car out to FP, PF, Intense, PFS, ... they have done many 600+hp cars!
10-01-2008, 03:46 PM
#33
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Sleeves are a fail. The iron liners in the VQ and most aluminum blocks like the LS series are installed at time of CASTING....NOT after the fact! This makes a HUGE difference! Attempting to replicate this with a press fit is literally impossible. Also the surface that makes contact with the HG will ALWAYS be a cause for concern due to expansion rates.
Alberto can attest...I have spoken out locally against sleeves for well over two years. There are other options if you start getting the tops of the cylinders to walk around due to heat and power. Am I telling....ummm no :P
Alberto can attest...I have spoken out locally against sleeves for well over two years. There are other options if you start getting the tops of the cylinders to walk around due to heat and power. Am I telling....ummm no :P
10-01-2008, 03:52 PM
#34
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That 500+hp car at UpRev has been there for a while. They tuned my NA 350z two years ago and was very happy with it, they are always at the shop and will answer any questions you have; however I would not put a $20-30k build in the hands of the stock ECU. The UpRev guys are great and know what they are talking about but I HIGHLY suggest using something that has put down 600+hp "safely", ie: Fcon, Halltech, ProEFI. I do know one guy on the boards, not going to name names, that had problems when they tuned his boosted (TN) Z, he put down 350ishrwhp for a couple of weeks and his motor let go (he had the stock TN tune on it and it ran fine for 2 years before the Uprev tune). Its not UpRevs fault per say (b/c they are some of the smartest guys Ive talked to), its the lack of ability of the stock ecu/maf to handle the job of boost.
Summary: don't put your build in the hands of the stock ecu! Since you are in TX, go to SGP or Jotech. OR ship the car out to FP, PF, Intense, PFS, ... they have done many 600+hp cars!
Summary: don't put your build in the hands of the stock ecu! Since you are in TX, go to SGP or Jotech. OR ship the car out to FP, PF, Intense, PFS, ... they have done many 600+hp cars!
The stock ECU is ALWAYS more stable then ANY aftermarket ECU (except maybe Autronic). Any tuner that tells you ANYTHING different is just trying to get a few more bucks from you or doesn't know what the hell they're doing. If you want features and extra controls and outputs..self-tuning and all that then sure aftermarket EMS FTW.
10-01-2008, 11:49 PM
#35
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I beg to differ and basically everyone in the domestic community would laugh at you. Isn't that a Z06 in your sig...jeez do some research bro. The domestic crowd has been making 700+ with stock EMS with BOLT-ON OUTTA the BOX kits for a long time!
The stock ECU is ALWAYS more stable then ANY aftermarket ECU (except maybe Autronic). Any tuner that tells you ANYTHING different is just trying to get a few more bucks from you or doesn't know what the hell they're doing. If you want features and extra controls and outputs..self-tuning and all that then sure aftermarket EMS FTW.
The stock ECU is ALWAYS more stable then ANY aftermarket ECU (except maybe Autronic). Any tuner that tells you ANYTHING different is just trying to get a few more bucks from you or doesn't know what the hell they're doing. If you want features and extra controls and outputs..self-tuning and all that then sure aftermarket EMS FTW.
I know a few tuners that always PUSH or install Fcons without even asking. Customers don't know any better and will believe what they say.Autronic EMS's are awesome though. I love those things but they are very expensive. But if I were to step up to get an EMS I would skip that fcon and get the Autronic.
10-02-2008, 10:04 AM
#36
I beg to differ and basically everyone in the domestic community would laugh at you. Isn't that a Z06 in your sig...jeez do some research bro. The domestic crowd has been making 700+ with stock EMS with BOLT-ON OUTTA the BOX kits for a long time!
The stock ECU is ALWAYS more stable then ANY aftermarket ECU (except maybe Autronic). Any tuner that tells you ANYTHING different is just trying to get a few more bucks from you or doesn't know what the hell they're doing. If you want features and extra controls and outputs..self-tuning and all that then sure aftermarket EMS FTW.
The stock ECU is ALWAYS more stable then ANY aftermarket ECU (except maybe Autronic). Any tuner that tells you ANYTHING different is just trying to get a few more bucks from you or doesn't know what the hell they're doing. If you want features and extra controls and outputs..self-tuning and all that then sure aftermarket EMS FTW.
I will concede the point if you can show 3 VQ's with 600+WHP that have not used ANY aftermarket EMS and not destroyed their motors for 5000+miles or 5 1/4 runs.
I don't want to pick a fight with you, as I'd surely lose. I simply disagree with what is being implied. It sounds as if you recommend the OP stick with the stock ECU to handle his built TT VQ at (a hopeful) 600+ RWHP.
10-02-2008, 05:25 PM
#37
Awesome feedbacks from F/I forum oldies...
Here is my suggestion:
1. No sleeve as others said.
2. Look into the CJM fuel system. More people use it for obvious reasons.
3. Go with Aquamist HFS-5 system. Lancer Evo guys love this thing..
4. Definitely go with F con v pro or Haltech... It will be easier to tune with them.
5. Go with 272 cams... GTM or BC ones...
6. I have a crawford plenum, but I want to bling factor, so I'm making a switch to SSV... SSV shouldn't be a problem with F/I application.
7. Instead of the nismo thermostat, go with Pathfinder cooling mod.
Here is my suggestion:
1. No sleeve as others said.
2. Look into the CJM fuel system. More people use it for obvious reasons.
3. Go with Aquamist HFS-5 system. Lancer Evo guys love this thing..
4. Definitely go with F con v pro or Haltech... It will be easier to tune with them.
5. Go with 272 cams... GTM or BC ones...
6. I have a crawford plenum, but I want to bling factor, so I'm making a switch to SSV... SSV shouldn't be a problem with F/I application.
7. Instead of the nismo thermostat, go with Pathfinder cooling mod.
10-02-2008, 07:30 PM
#39
That 500+hp car at UpRev has been there for a while. They tuned my NA 350z two years ago and was very happy with it, they are always at the shop and will answer any questions you have; however I would not put a $20-30k build in the hands of the stock ECU. The UpRev guys are great and know what they are talking about but I HIGHLY suggest using something that has put down 600+hp "safely", ie: Fcon, Halltech, ProEFI. I do know one guy on the boards, not going to name names, that had problems when they tuned his boosted (TN) Z, he put down 350ishrwhp for a couple of weeks and his motor let go (he had the stock TN tune on it and it ran fine for 2 years before the Uprev tune). Its not UpRevs fault per say (b/c they are some of the smartest guys Ive talked to), its the lack of ability of the stock ecu/maf to handle the job of boost.
Summary: don't put your build in the hands of the stock ecu! Since you are in TX, go to SGP or Jotech. OR ship the car out to FP, PF, Intense, PFS, ... they have done many 600+hp cars!
Summary: don't put your build in the hands of the stock ecu! Since you are in TX, go to SGP or Jotech. OR ship the car out to FP, PF, Intense, PFS, ... they have done many 600+hp cars!
secondly up-rev performs a compression test on EVERY vehicle they tune beforeits even put on the rollers...the story I heard was the engine of the TT350 you are reffering to..was on its way out anyway.
I am simply an individual that was introduced to the guys at Uprev by a mutual friend and ended up buying the cipher software from them to read codes etc on my car.
You will probably all laugh that I am running the greddy emanage blue on my built motor greddy twinned Z... thats ok ..I am just not going to spend 3K+ on an engine managment system when the one on my car runs like a champ. My car starts and idles like a sewing machine and absofreakinglutely screams when I want it to.
I am excited about Uprevs approach and look forward to hearing more about them in the future...
my .02
10-02-2008, 09:27 PM
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sorry i havnt been on. interne here in the desert took a **** on me im getting it fixed today i hope if i can find a new power cord for my wireless booster thingy they have out here.