interesting bad built motor thread on G35driver.......
10-28-2008, 03:20 PM
#421
Regardless of the report from Romey's motor, I stand behind my experience as being a bad one, for many reasons (already atated) with factual proof. Sentry asks more Q's than anybody in this thread, neither of which related to the OA. How about him or somebody else ask "how can I know my GTM motor wont see issues like his?" "Will more QC control checks be implemented?"
I talked to Sam today regarding my engine and all this. I don't share your questions.
I ask if any of these questionable engines are sleeved because no one seems to know how many engines we're talking here or what they are. Many here act like they know things, but they won't share it. That seems fishy
I was thinking we should at least be constructive and get a list of these failed engines, what type they were - sleeved or not, short or longblock, what specifically appeared to fail with them or what the symptoms were? Because maybe that might be useful info to know or *GASP* even helpful to GTM since they've made it clear they didn't know about all these sudden cases of failed engines until recently. Most which seem to be up in the air who's fault it even is.
Instead I get called a drama queen or GTM defender, and have accusations made about me.
I ordered it a month ago. None of this info was around then.
I still can't get an answer if these are ONLY sleeved blocks that have problems. Mine is unsleeved
I'm just not that worried about durability. Come on, my little old vortech won't hold a candle to the big power guys. Headlift isn't likely with me
Last edited by sentry65; 10-28-2008 at 03:32 PM.
10-28-2008, 03:23 PM
#423
New Member
iTrader: (13)
No I am not, I am just letting everyone know we didn't install them, since everyone seems to be on a bash GTM wagon.
There is no point to keep responding, this will never end. I have already been accused of trying to create drama so the thread gets locked.
Guess what, I could car less if it gets sticky'd, locked, deleted - whatever.
I'll wait for r0mey's engine report to come back - then we can continue from there.
Also, something everyone is forgetting - all these engines came from shops, shops that ordered engines from us. If a shop orders a sleeved engine, are we suppose to question them and make sure they know what they are selling? I think not. None of these engines were purchased directly from us and no one was "sold" on the sleeved engine upgrade from us.
Also, to make this a fair comparison, shouldn't everyone else who has had head lift issues post up their problems as well? Oh wait that's not going to happen is it? I forgot it's only GTM getting bashed right now.
My question to Alberto, QuickSilver and RudeG:
I hope it never happens to you guys, but if you do lift your heads, are you going to post about it so that the community will benefit from it, or are you going to keep it under wraps as to not discredit your builder tuner?
Alberto is the only one I expect would share his results, regardless if they are good or bad.
Anyways I am done for today, I'm off the clock now
There is no point to keep responding, this will never end. I have already been accused of trying to create drama so the thread gets locked.
Guess what, I could car less if it gets sticky'd, locked, deleted - whatever.
I'll wait for r0mey's engine report to come back - then we can continue from there.
Also, something everyone is forgetting - all these engines came from shops, shops that ordered engines from us. If a shop orders a sleeved engine, are we suppose to question them and make sure they know what they are selling? I think not. None of these engines were purchased directly from us and no one was "sold" on the sleeved engine upgrade from us.
Also, to make this a fair comparison, shouldn't everyone else who has had head lift issues post up their problems as well? Oh wait that's not going to happen is it? I forgot it's only GTM getting bashed right now.
My question to Alberto, QuickSilver and RudeG:
I hope it never happens to you guys, but if you do lift your heads, are you going to post about it so that the community will benefit from it, or are you going to keep it under wraps as to not discredit your builder tuner?
Alberto is the only one I expect would share his results, regardless if they are good or bad.
Anyways I am done for today, I'm off the clock now
OK so you advertize something for 1000hp but yet you blame your dealers for not knowing what they are getting or attempt to work things out with them rather than throw them under the bus ?
BTW to your other question, the answer is yes if i have a problem i will post it up, but you are missing my whole point. I know you can put up quality products and engines, i dont think all have troubles, but the fact that its hard for your "boss" to admit the possibility of error on his part and his constant deflection of blame on to the tuner and/or other manufacturers, and desire to make extra coin(one more time, is sam going to reinburse the cost of the stg1 cams to rome? or you seriously believe he shoudl ahve had to pay for stg2s even though the stg1 failed
) thats what problem is and why we have this thread. I am not here to bash your entire line of products.
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 10-28-2008 at 03:25 PM.
10-28-2008, 03:37 PM
#426
You are correct on what happened . But it was Sam ignoring my legit questions that got it going in the first place and Nitrouz , being one of his customers [ nuthuggers ] with moderator status that stopped the legit questions from being answered
Alberto...THANKS FOR BRINGING YOUR TROUBLES TO LIGHT !!!!!
Maybe GTM will become a better shop as a result of it .
Alberto...THANKS FOR BRINGING YOUR TROUBLES TO LIGHT !!!!!
Maybe GTM will become a better shop as a result of it .
10-28-2008, 03:38 PM
#427
OK so you advertize something for 1000hp but yet you blame your dealers for not knowing what they are getting or attempt to work things out with them rather than throw them under the bus ?
BTW to your other question, the answer is yes if i have a problem i will post it up, but you are missing my whole point. I know you can put up quality products and engines, i dont think all have troubles, but the fact that its hard for your "boss" to admit the possibility of error on his part and his constant deflection of blame on to the tuner and/or other manufacturers, and desire to make extra coin(one more time, is sam going to reinburse the cost of the stg1 cams to rome? or you seriously believe he shoudl ahve had to pay for stg2s even though the stg1 failed) thats what problem is and why we have this thread. I am not here to bash your entire line of products.
BTW to your other question, the answer is yes if i have a problem i will post it up, but you are missing my whole point. I know you can put up quality products and engines, i dont think all have troubles, but the fact that its hard for your "boss" to admit the possibility of error on his part and his constant deflection of blame on to the tuner and/or other manufacturers, and desire to make extra coin(one more time, is sam going to reinburse the cost of the stg1 cams to rome? or you seriously believe he shoudl ahve had to pay for stg2s even though the stg1 failed
) thats what problem is and why we have this thread. I am not here to bash your entire line of products.I sleeved my engine, did I sell my self? Did I want to spend the extra $2K? No. But so far I am happy, my car made 700rwhp at just 17 psi with water only. So far no issues, I have been beating the **** out of the car and its holding up great.
I have been re-reading the posts, and I can see how it seems that we are trying to shift the blame, but we are really just defending ourselves, I mean look at how many people are attacking us?
Let me try to explain my point of view Jorge, hopefully you can see where I am coming from old friend
1. Vino's engine - We are not saying we didn't make a mistake, we are saying we need to inspect the motor so we can warranty it. But if you are an engine builder, and an engine is ran low on oil, and you know this is fact. Would you warranty it? Again not blaming just giving perspective.
2. Zoni's engine - we accepted fault on that and stated what we would provide to rectify the problem.
3. r0mey's engine - Still to be determined who is at fault
4. Alberto's engine - We were told its not on our end, despite Alberto's side of the story, what are we suppose to do when we are told its not out fault?
5. BamBam's engine - Sam told me they just replaced the head gaskets and that was it, at no point in time did Sharif tell Sam there is something wrong with this engine we are going to send it back.
6. Alex's Engine - There thermostat and gaskets were all replaced by a shop in Canada, I do not know which one. Again no one told us about a concern with the engine.
Do you see what I mean Jorge? I am just trying to give our perspective on the situation. But every post I make ends up being interpreted differently than my intentions. Therefore I am going to give up for today, again
-George
10-28-2008, 03:40 PM
#429
Why spend the money on a UTEC, when you will have to most likely upgrade to something like a Haltech or VPro down the line? The consumer will just lose more money.
2. A car with a Haltech or VPro will run better/smoother than with a UTEC, sorry but 10x10 resolution is inadequate.
3. Why wouldn't we sell him a UTEC, we are TurboXS dealers!
Now why dont you answer some of the questions that people have been posing for 20 pages now, instead of getting defensive and trying to push more spin.
10-28-2008, 03:46 PM
#431
Sentry is used to the arguing in the P/W section, he can't help it. (j/k)
I saw an interesting question a while back that I would like to see answered by shops/reps - If I build a motor to make 500-600rwhp, how long should it last?
I would expect that we all build them to beat on them and drive them hard. Is that not why we have invested the money, to ensure that they hold up? Is 40K+ unreasonable?
As a business owner I would expect that if I buy equipment and it has defects, it is up to the vendor that I purchased from to make it right unless there is a warranty that states otherwise. After getting burned by a member on this forum on a motor purchase, I am using this thread as a guide to make sure that I communicate in very plain terms what I expect from the shop that is handling the teardown and rebuild. I am thankful to all the members that have posted the pitfalls of going built motor F/I so that the newer members can learn.
I saw an interesting question a while back that I would like to see answered by shops/reps - If I build a motor to make 500-600rwhp, how long should it last?
I would expect that we all build them to beat on them and drive them hard. Is that not why we have invested the money, to ensure that they hold up? Is 40K+ unreasonable?
As a business owner I would expect that if I buy equipment and it has defects, it is up to the vendor that I purchased from to make it right unless there is a warranty that states otherwise. After getting burned by a member on this forum on a motor purchase, I am using this thread as a guide to make sure that I communicate in very plain terms what I expect from the shop that is handling the teardown and rebuild. I am thankful to all the members that have posted the pitfalls of going built motor F/I so that the newer members can learn.
10-28-2008, 03:49 PM
#433
I dont doubt you weren't trying to sell him anything. But maybe, just maybe, if you get people to think the Haltech/Fcon/Insert-high-dollar-item-here is what everyone needs by posting stuff like you did up, someone else will buy those items from you. I thought you were a businessman? Its called shaping the market. I'm an Army recruiter George. You know why we love to enlist high school seniors? Because they have friends, and they talk to their friends, and they do a better job selling their friends on joining the Army then I as a recruiter ever could. I'm not sure if you're trying to insult my intelligence, but saying "I wasn't trying to sell him anything" is a pretty poor excuse when you have a HUGE dog in the fight.
Why would he HAVE to upgrade to a Haltech or Fcon down the line? This is a procharger setup on a stock block we're talking about. The guy clearly says he is not going for crazy power. Headroom is good - but again - that kind of thinking ALL THE TIME is why **** like the sleeved engines, way overpriced rods, etc, were pushed.
I dont disagree with the fact that the Haltech or Fcon would run smoother. What we were trying to say is that its not NECCESSARY like you try to make people believe. Define "inadequate" for me. My car has run like a top for around 4k miles now using a UTEC with none of the issues that you guarantee that this guy will have if he uses one. I guess maybe a few thousand miles down the line my UTEC will go crazy and I will change my mind... Maybe around the same time my HKS headgaskets go bad because "they're only good for 14k miles". LOL
Maybe because you have a larger profit margin on a Haltech or FCon? Maybe because if you can upsell him to something else, you will convince others to do the same in the process? Besides - didn't you just say that 10x10 resolution is inadequate??? I think you did! So, just why do you sell UTECs anyway then?
Now why dont you answer some of the questions that people have been posing for 20 pages now, instead of getting defensive and trying to push more spin.
Why would he HAVE to upgrade to a Haltech or Fcon down the line? This is a procharger setup on a stock block we're talking about. The guy clearly says he is not going for crazy power. Headroom is good - but again - that kind of thinking ALL THE TIME is why **** like the sleeved engines, way overpriced rods, etc, were pushed.
I dont disagree with the fact that the Haltech or Fcon would run smoother. What we were trying to say is that its not NECCESSARY like you try to make people believe. Define "inadequate" for me. My car has run like a top for around 4k miles now using a UTEC with none of the issues that you guarantee that this guy will have if he uses one. I guess maybe a few thousand miles down the line my UTEC will go crazy and I will change my mind... Maybe around the same time my HKS headgaskets go bad because "they're only good for 14k miles". LOL
Maybe because you have a larger profit margin on a Haltech or FCon? Maybe because if you can upsell him to something else, you will convince others to do the same in the process? Besides - didn't you just say that 10x10 resolution is inadequate??? I think you did! So, just why do you sell UTECs anyway then?
Now why dont you answer some of the questions that people have been posing for 20 pages now, instead of getting defensive and trying to push more spin.
OR Maybe I was just giving him my honest opinion?
1. I don't care what he buys or doesn't buy or anyone for that matter from GTM. It doesn't affect me in ANYWAY!
2. What products Sam sells and tunes are up to him.
3. Your happy with your UTEC, that is fine. Maybe I am just to picky. I am sure if I drove your car I would fine a number of things I would consider inadequate.
Last edited by GTM; 10-28-2008 at 03:58 PM.
10-28-2008, 03:50 PM
#434
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[QUOTE=SpoilsofWar;6486492
Now why dont you answer some of the questions that people have been posing for 20 pages now, instead of getting defensive and trying to push more spin.[/QUOTE]
yeah
Now why dont you answer some of the questions that people have been posing for 20 pages now, instead of getting defensive and trying to push more spin.[/QUOTE]
yeah
10-28-2008, 03:52 PM
#437
I like good debates
I saw an interesting question a while back that I would like to see answered by shops/reps - If I build a motor to make 500-600rwhp, how long should it last?
I would expect that we all build them to beat on them and drive them hard. Is that not why we have invested the money, to ensure that they hold up? Is 40K+ unreasonable?
I would expect that we all build them to beat on them and drive them hard. Is that not why we have invested the money, to ensure that they hold up? Is 40K+ unreasonable?
I'm curious too what everyone else's thoughts on this are.
What is a reasonable life expectancy for a built engine at different power levels and conditions??
new thread?
Last edited by sentry65; 10-28-2008 at 03:55 PM.
10-28-2008, 03:55 PM
#440
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