interesting bad built motor thread on G35driver.......
10-26-2008, 08:20 PM
#161
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I have no beef with you, and I don't have a dog in this fight, but calling George "the RV saleman" just makes you look retarded. So how just stick to the facts, and cut the name-calling. Besides, what's so wrong with selling RV's, I didn't know that was a job that was frowned upon...
10-26-2008, 08:25 PM
#162
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you will always have a 'what came first, the chicken or the egg" scenario here.
you cannot make deductions from the measurements after the engine has operated, only way to verify poor assembly would have been from an engine that had not ran or been damaged.
What caused the wall wear? could it have been a bad tune resulting in excessive temperatures causing the pistons or rings to expand and damage the walls???
Then with the walls damaged or worn how can you condemn the ring gaps?? as they are measure with the rings in place in the cylinder so if the walls are worn the ring gap will be bigger than when measure with undamaged walls.
And as for possible contanimantion causing wear on the crank, that could have happened at assembly at GTM but also at any time during final install by MRC. Was the engine a short block? if so there are tons of possible sources of rtv during assembly of the long block or if it was a long block from GTM there is a chance for debris to fall in before installing the valve covers or oil pan which usually don't come with longblocks.
So basically I don't find the finding by the third party shop to be such a smoking gun as some make it out to be.
you cannot make deductions from the measurements after the engine has operated, only way to verify poor assembly would have been from an engine that had not ran or been damaged.
What caused the wall wear? could it have been a bad tune resulting in excessive temperatures causing the pistons or rings to expand and damage the walls???
Then with the walls damaged or worn how can you condemn the ring gaps?? as they are measure with the rings in place in the cylinder so if the walls are worn the ring gap will be bigger than when measure with undamaged walls.
And as for possible contanimantion causing wear on the crank, that could have happened at assembly at GTM but also at any time during final install by MRC. Was the engine a short block? if so there are tons of possible sources of rtv during assembly of the long block or if it was a long block from GTM there is a chance for debris to fall in before installing the valve covers or oil pan which usually don't come with longblocks.
So basically I don't find the finding by the third party shop to be such a smoking gun as some make it out to be.
10-26-2008, 08:37 PM
#163
I just reread both of Sam's posts and the follow-up posts by George. While a saw a long winded character assassination of Julian and GTM's version of the history of events, I did not see any mention or explanation for the findings listed in the 3rd party report (which I quoted in post #157).
We all know that Julian is a hot head and isn't well liked by many here. We know he would never win an award here on the forums for Mr. Congeniality. And many of you may disagree and disapprove of how Julian has handled this situation with the motors in question thus far, including him creating the thread about the entire matter. OK, fine.
However, I have yet to see GTM directly address or explain the findings listed in that report by Diamond Motors indicating a faulty motor build/assembly.
We all know that Julian is a hot head and isn't well liked by many here. We know he would never win an award here on the forums for Mr. Congeniality. And many of you may disagree and disapprove of how Julian has handled this situation with the motors in question thus far, including him creating the thread about the entire matter. OK, fine.
However, I have yet to see GTM directly address or explain the findings listed in that report by Diamond Motors indicating a faulty motor build/assembly.
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; 10-26-2008 at 08:55 PM.
10-26-2008, 08:46 PM
#164
you will always have a 'what came first, the chicken or the egg" scenario here.
you cannot make deductions from the measurements after the engine has operated, only way to verify poor assembly would have been from an engine that had not ran or been damaged.
What caused the wall wear? could it have been a bad tune resulting in excessive temperatures causing the pistons or rings to expand and damage the walls???
Then with the walls damaged or worn how can you condemn the ring gaps?? as they are measure with the rings in place in the cylinder so if the walls are worn the ring gap will be bigger than when measure with undamaged walls.
And as for possible contanimantion causing wear on the crank, that could have happened at assembly at GTM but also at any time during final install by MRC. Was the engine a short block? if so there are tons of possible sources of rtv during assembly of the long block or if it was a long block from GTM there is a chance for debris to fall in before installing the valve covers or oil pan which usually don't come with longblocks.
So basically I don't find the finding by the third party shop to be such a smoking gun as some make it out to be.
you cannot make deductions from the measurements after the engine has operated, only way to verify poor assembly would have been from an engine that had not ran or been damaged.
What caused the wall wear? could it have been a bad tune resulting in excessive temperatures causing the pistons or rings to expand and damage the walls???
Then with the walls damaged or worn how can you condemn the ring gaps?? as they are measure with the rings in place in the cylinder so if the walls are worn the ring gap will be bigger than when measure with undamaged walls.
And as for possible contanimantion causing wear on the crank, that could have happened at assembly at GTM but also at any time during final install by MRC. Was the engine a short block? if so there are tons of possible sources of rtv during assembly of the long block or if it was a long block from GTM there is a chance for debris to fall in before installing the valve covers or oil pan which usually don't come with longblocks.
So basically I don't find the finding by the third party shop to be such a smoking gun as some make it out to be.
10-26-2008, 08:49 PM
#165
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My point is that the findings are not conclusive either way, there is no obvious glaring build issue that I could see, and Julian just did his typical throw **** on the wall and see what sticks
10-26-2008, 08:51 PM
#166
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RV salesman - LOL.
What do you do for a living anyway? What are you qualifications?
You say I am an RV salesman, I run a RV dealership, big difference.
You always have something to say, but I haven't seen anything to back up your credibility.
I guess all the people I have helped over the years should not do what ever I have told them since I am just an "RV salesman"
How much power is your blueprinted engine making anyway? Never seen a post about your car, but that way you talk I expect it to be very impressive.
You are very critical of major shops, were you fired from one? You sound to me like a know-it-all with nothing to back it up.
Eagerly awaiting and accomplishments you can PROVE you have done.
-George
What do you do for a living anyway? What are you qualifications?
You say I am an RV salesman, I run a RV dealership, big difference.
You always have something to say, but I haven't seen anything to back up your credibility.
I guess all the people I have helped over the years should not do what ever I have told them since I am just an "RV salesman"
How much power is your blueprinted engine making anyway? Never seen a post about your car, but that way you talk I expect it to be very impressive.
You are very critical of major shops, were you fired from one? You sound to me like a know-it-all with nothing to back it up.
Eagerly awaiting and accomplishments you can PROVE you have done.
-George
Last edited by go-fast; 10-26-2008 at 10:48 PM.
10-26-2008, 08:55 PM
#168
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I just reread both of Sam's posts and the follow-up posts by George. While a saw a long winded character assassination of Julian and GTM's version of the history of events, I did not see any mention or explanation for the findings listed in the 3rd party report (which I quoted above).
We all know that Julian is a hot head and isn't well liked by many here. We know he would never win an award here on the forums for Mr. Congeniality. And many of you may disagree and disapprove of how Julian has handled this situation with the motors in question thus far, including him creating the thread about the entire matter. OK, fine.
However, I have yet to see GTM directly address or explain the findings listed in that report by Diamond Motors indicating a faulty motor build/assembly.
We all know that Julian is a hot head and isn't well liked by many here. We know he would never win an award here on the forums for Mr. Congeniality. And many of you may disagree and disapprove of how Julian has handled this situation with the motors in question thus far, including him creating the thread about the entire matter. OK, fine.
However, I have yet to see GTM directly address or explain the findings listed in that report by Diamond Motors indicating a faulty motor build/assembly.
10-26-2008, 08:56 PM
#169
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there is nothing wrong with his job,i have issue with his pretend job.and yes i do look retarded,i gave him credibility based on his george@gtm screen name without thoroughly examining his "profile".i have no dog in this fight either,but when i find out i have been going back and forth with a wanna be tech it just adds fuel to my fire.
.
10-26-2008, 09:02 PM
#170
To be honest, I'm not 100% sure.
But I think it's the engine referred to in Julian's OP and the thread title. This report (which I gave the link to in post #157) was posted in the g35driver thread well before Sam responded.
But I think it's the engine referred to in Julian's OP and the thread title. This report (which I gave the link to in post #157) was posted in the g35driver thread well before Sam responded.
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; 10-26-2008 at 09:16 PM.
10-26-2008, 09:13 PM
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so in you own words you are saying on one hand that squirters where snapped off by defect pistons and the next breath offer to supply replacement squirters.....free of charge?how does that solve anything?he needs pistons and even if you sent the poor guy new pistons he's still sol.what's he gonna do,put 'em on a shelf and tell people "those are the pistons that belong in my motor".
10-26-2008, 09:15 PM
#172
Sam's timeline and analysis is clear, and I hope Julian responds to THAT so we have some semblance of continuity and reference to what each is referring to. so if you are also confused you might want to temper your attacks until it is clear.
10-26-2008, 09:34 PM
#173
that was my point and I think sam's post mentioned is that Julian seems to be jumbling together multiple engines or issues. I personally can't follow so i am confused.
Sam's timeline and analysis is clear, and I hope Julian responds to THAT so we have some semblance of continuity and reference to what each is referring to. so if you are also confused you might want to temper your attacks until it is clear.
Sam's timeline and analysis is clear, and I hope Julian responds to THAT so we have some semblance of continuity and reference to what each is referring to. so if you are also confused you might want to temper your attacks until it is clear.
http://g35driver.com/forums/3566839-post172.html
And Tom, you know me and my posts (exemplified by my posts in the g35driver thread) well enough by now to know when I'm attacking and when my posts are tempered.
In this case, I'm not making attacks. I'm merely stating the obvious. The link to that report was posted almost 3 hours before Sam responded and is the same motor Julian has been talking about since the first post, yet Sam didn't address it.
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; 10-26-2008 at 09:39 PM.
10-26-2008, 10:05 PM
#174
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There is a pattern with Julian, the engines get installed, make good power, everyone is happy, then the engines don't last - Why have we only had this problem with you Julian? Out of over 200 engines built out of our machine shop.
Engine #2 - Zoni
A quote from George's post earlier in this thread:
Julian replies to this post, claiming that he has fixed the engine he is the only one standing behind GTM's engines. The interesting part is I have spoken to Dave Zoni yesterday (the owner of the car) and he informed me that the car is doing well, and to this day the oil squirters have not been repaired/replaced. He asked me my opinion of repairing it or not, I told him it should be taken care of and I will supply him with the parts need to repair the car free of charge. The engine does not have to be removed for this type of job and is a rather simple repair.
We had a good conversation, he stated that he was very happy with the car, the engine, and he still thinks that we are the best and we know what we are doing - straight from the customers mouth. Julian claims that if we are so professional how did we miss the oil squirters hitting the pistons. The oil squirters were not discovered during assembly because if they did make contact you cannot miss it or over look it. The pistons obviously expanded, and most likely under high rpm loads, broke the oil squirters. This is a defect in the piston manufacturing and as we have stated time after time we will take full responsibility for the problem, but can't fix anything if Julian won't communicate or work with us in this matter.
Now Julian, you want us to pay you $3,200 for doing nothing? since the customer told us the oil squirters have still not been fixed, who is using smoke and mirrors now?
Made good power for having broken oil squirters: https://my350z.com/forum/shop-builds...ne-merlot.html
Engine#3 - r0mey
This has got to be the biggest let down and disappointment out of all the cases. MRC bought an engine for romey back around 7/2007, it was installed and tuned by MRC. MRC posted the happy results as usual (https://my350z.com/forum/shop-builds...built-day.html) I have always been in communication with romey and everything was always running great, not even one single complaint/issue. The car was driven for 8,000 miles like this making over 550rwhp DD, until Julian decided to retune the car for meth injection and to make big numbers to demonstrate his abilities. During tuning the car lifted the head. The question is how an improper machines/built engine last 8,000 hard driven miles, and then magically fail when it is being tuned. There is only one variable that changed here, and that variable is the tune.
I received a threating PM from Julian, I replied simply saying we should set up a conference call between the 3 of us. He stated that the engine had suffered from headlift, I told him to let me have the engine I will replace the head gasket, double check it, and send it back to him in less than a weeks time. At that point I had no idea the amount of damage this engine had incurred.
We received the engine preformed our own tear down inspection, one piston was severely damaged due to excessive heat in that cylinder, the engine has been overheated on one bank only, we had sent the piston to Arias for inspection, and the report from Arias stated that the piston was showing early signs of detonation. The snout of the crank shaft on the key was damaged and turned blue from leaving the harmonic balancer loose. Also we found abnormal wear on one camshaft which appeared to be a manufacturing defect. To this day we had never denied warranty on this camshaft, this is the only case that ever surfaced.
It was our conclusion that after this engine had been driven for 8,000 miles, and failing in the process of a tuning session, that this is not something we should be responsible for. I told romey I would help him out and I will take care of it, I kept my word and sent him a complete fresh engine, brand new pistons, and bearings for no charge. The only thing romey paid for was the following:
Camshaft upgrade from Stage1 to Stage 2
Camshaft clearancing and adjustments
Headgaskets
Upgraded Lifters
ECU Flash
Crankshaft
The reason romey had to pay for new camshafts was because he upgraded from stage 1 to stage 2, if he had stuck with stage 1 cams, we would have warrantied the ONE cam that was defective and he would have had no out of pocket expense as far as the camshafts go. I said the following, I will take care of the shortblock as I promised, but you will have to pay for the cam upgrade, the flash, and I am not going to pay for MRC's incompetence of damaging the crank. Once the metal is over heated to the point where is becomes blue, the integrity of the crank is comprised and we did not feel comfortable re-using it.
At no point did romey have any objection at what he was being charged for. We shipped the engine thinking it would be installed ASAP, but the engine sat there for about a month before they began the installation. I must have called romey at least twice a week making sure everything is ok. Just to clarify we shipped the block and heads, not an assembled longblock. When the engine was installed, I receive a phone call from romey and matt stating that the engine does not seem to be running on one bank, meaning only half the engine was working. I asked him if he had any codes, matt stated there were no codes.
Next conversation we had is between romey, me, and julian on 3 way, were Julian stated that the engine had misfire codes on only one bank. So it went from running on one bank only, with no CEL, to CEL with codes on only one bank, to engine didn't fire on start up. So many inconsistencies. I suggested that we send the car to a 3rd party out of state and I would pay for the transport so we may get an unbiased opinion. Romey came back and picked a local shop he wanted to do the 3rd part inspection and we agreed. We are still waiting on this report, it has been about a week and are responding sooner than anticipated due to all the comments from MRC.
Even after taking care of an engine that was damaged due to improper tuning and negligence we have suffered a charge back on romeys engine.
We will respond with further comments once the 3rd parts inspection is complete.
Engine #4 - Dougs engine.
This is the only other engine we have sold Julian, do not know where he got 6, it has only been 4. We have never heard anything negative of dougs engine that was on our end, from doug or julian.
We have no problem taking care of problems that may arise that are our fault, we are all human, and we all have good and bad days. If something comes up that is our fault we take care of it as much as any other reputable business in the high performance industry.
SAM
GT MOTORSPORTS
Engine #2 - Zoni
A quote from George's post earlier in this thread:
Julian replies to this post, claiming that he has fixed the engine he is the only one standing behind GTM's engines. The interesting part is I have spoken to Dave Zoni yesterday (the owner of the car) and he informed me that the car is doing well, and to this day the oil squirters have not been repaired/replaced. He asked me my opinion of repairing it or not, I told him it should be taken care of and I will supply him with the parts need to repair the car free of charge. The engine does not have to be removed for this type of job and is a rather simple repair.
We had a good conversation, he stated that he was very happy with the car, the engine, and he still thinks that we are the best and we know what we are doing - straight from the customers mouth. Julian claims that if we are so professional how did we miss the oil squirters hitting the pistons. The oil squirters were not discovered during assembly because if they did make contact you cannot miss it or over look it. The pistons obviously expanded, and most likely under high rpm loads, broke the oil squirters. This is a defect in the piston manufacturing and as we have stated time after time we will take full responsibility for the problem, but can't fix anything if Julian won't communicate or work with us in this matter.
Now Julian, you want us to pay you $3,200 for doing nothing? since the customer told us the oil squirters have still not been fixed, who is using smoke and mirrors now?
Made good power for having broken oil squirters: https://my350z.com/forum/shop-builds...ne-merlot.html
Engine#3 - r0mey
This has got to be the biggest let down and disappointment out of all the cases. MRC bought an engine for romey back around 7/2007, it was installed and tuned by MRC. MRC posted the happy results as usual (https://my350z.com/forum/shop-builds...built-day.html) I have always been in communication with romey and everything was always running great, not even one single complaint/issue. The car was driven for 8,000 miles like this making over 550rwhp DD, until Julian decided to retune the car for meth injection and to make big numbers to demonstrate his abilities. During tuning the car lifted the head. The question is how an improper machines/built engine last 8,000 hard driven miles, and then magically fail when it is being tuned. There is only one variable that changed here, and that variable is the tune.
I received a threating PM from Julian, I replied simply saying we should set up a conference call between the 3 of us. He stated that the engine had suffered from headlift, I told him to let me have the engine I will replace the head gasket, double check it, and send it back to him in less than a weeks time. At that point I had no idea the amount of damage this engine had incurred.
We received the engine preformed our own tear down inspection, one piston was severely damaged due to excessive heat in that cylinder, the engine has been overheated on one bank only, we had sent the piston to Arias for inspection, and the report from Arias stated that the piston was showing early signs of detonation. The snout of the crank shaft on the key was damaged and turned blue from leaving the harmonic balancer loose. Also we found abnormal wear on one camshaft which appeared to be a manufacturing defect. To this day we had never denied warranty on this camshaft, this is the only case that ever surfaced.
It was our conclusion that after this engine had been driven for 8,000 miles, and failing in the process of a tuning session, that this is not something we should be responsible for. I told romey I would help him out and I will take care of it, I kept my word and sent him a complete fresh engine, brand new pistons, and bearings for no charge. The only thing romey paid for was the following:
Camshaft upgrade from Stage1 to Stage 2
Camshaft clearancing and adjustments
Headgaskets
Upgraded Lifters
ECU Flash
Crankshaft
The reason romey had to pay for new camshafts was because he upgraded from stage 1 to stage 2, if he had stuck with stage 1 cams, we would have warrantied the ONE cam that was defective and he would have had no out of pocket expense as far as the camshafts go. I said the following, I will take care of the shortblock as I promised, but you will have to pay for the cam upgrade, the flash, and I am not going to pay for MRC's incompetence of damaging the crank. Once the metal is over heated to the point where is becomes blue, the integrity of the crank is comprised and we did not feel comfortable re-using it.
At no point did romey have any objection at what he was being charged for. We shipped the engine thinking it would be installed ASAP, but the engine sat there for about a month before they began the installation. I must have called romey at least twice a week making sure everything is ok. Just to clarify we shipped the block and heads, not an assembled longblock. When the engine was installed, I receive a phone call from romey and matt stating that the engine does not seem to be running on one bank, meaning only half the engine was working. I asked him if he had any codes, matt stated there were no codes.
Next conversation we had is between romey, me, and julian on 3 way, were Julian stated that the engine had misfire codes on only one bank. So it went from running on one bank only, with no CEL, to CEL with codes on only one bank, to engine didn't fire on start up. So many inconsistencies. I suggested that we send the car to a 3rd party out of state and I would pay for the transport so we may get an unbiased opinion. Romey came back and picked a local shop he wanted to do the 3rd part inspection and we agreed. We are still waiting on this report, it has been about a week and are responding sooner than anticipated due to all the comments from MRC.
Even after taking care of an engine that was damaged due to improper tuning and negligence we have suffered a charge back on romeys engine.
We will respond with further comments once the 3rd parts inspection is complete.
Engine #4 - Dougs engine.
This is the only other engine we have sold Julian, do not know where he got 6, it has only been 4. We have never heard anything negative of dougs engine that was on our end, from doug or julian.
We have no problem taking care of problems that may arise that are our fault, we are all human, and we all have good and bad days. If something comes up that is our fault we take care of it as much as any other reputable business in the high performance industry.
SAM
GT MOTORSPORTS
Last edited by zoni19; 10-26-2008 at 10:10 PM.
10-26-2008, 10:08 PM
#175
Originally Posted by rudeG
I just looked at the g35driver thread again and it is the same motor from the OP.
http://g35driver.com/forums/3566839-post172.html
And Tom, you know me and my posts (exemplified by my posts in the g35driver thread) well enough by now to know when I'm attacking and when my posts are tempered.
In this case, I'm not making attacks. I'm merely stating the obvious. The link to that report was posted almost 3 hours before Sam responded and is the same motor Julian has been talking about since the first post, yet Sam didn't address it.
http://g35driver.com/forums/3566839-post172.html
And Tom, you know me and my posts (exemplified by my posts in the g35driver thread) well enough by now to know when I'm attacking and when my posts are tempered.
In this case, I'm not making attacks. I'm merely stating the obvious. The link to that report was posted almost 3 hours before Sam responded and is the same motor Julian has been talking about since the first post, yet Sam didn't address it.
I think there are holes in both stories, but they clearly do not add up, right? as expected of course
I think GTM is too dismissive of what Julian posted and julian probably tried hard to paint the worst possible picture for GTM's actions tbqh. some of the holes/gaps I see:
- the apparent confusion by either GTM or Julian as to the cams issue... Julian says they were not compensated, GTM said it was agreed there would be no compensation but admits material defect with them...
- the oil squirters that were never repaired, or pistons that were never replaced, but julian implied they were (I think), gtm says they weren't and Julian also did not handle his side of the troubleshooting in that issue (by supplying the build number or whatever, though if he only has 4 motors doesn't seem that hard to me...) and julian says he was blown off.
that is my problem with even beginning to understand where the two stories meet up. Julian I am sure will respond and maybe that'll help me.
10-26-2008, 10:29 PM
#176
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I really did not want to get involved in this since my car is running fine (knock on wood) with the exception on the oil squirters but I will say this hoping not to sound to much of an MRC FANBOY, Julian is one of the most stand up guys I've ever met now granted I have been a good customer of his for a long time but it goes way beyond that! anything I have needed not just for the Z but anything he has always been there for me and my family. I really believe this! if there was something that was Julian's fault he will take 100 % responsibility.Now I did speak to Sam last night and yes it was a good conversation I think Sam will also take responsibility if it comes back that it was on GTM's end.We all need to relax and let the situation work its self out! I described the situation to Rome awhile back its like a big $hit sandwich and everybody needs to take a bite GTM, MRC and especially Rome because he the one without his Z going on 6 months
10-26-2008, 11:09 PM
#177
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^yes Sam said it was defected pistons so it is something i will mention to him ! now one other detail 4 engines where sent out to GTM all around the same time from MRC 3 came back with the heads on and 2out of 3 failed/mine came back with the block and heads apart and Rob the old MRC engine assembler put my engine together now my car is the only one still running! thats something that might be usefull to Sam and julian to figure out this whole mess!
10-27-2008, 12:01 AM
#178
The engine report belongs to VINO.
My first motor failed and since that day even til today ive been stuck in the middle with no car that was some time back in may I believe. As all of you read I got another motor about a month ago so from may til a month ago the z sat with no motor and then that failed.
My engine will have a failure report soon. When it does I will post til then I just keep reading everyones thoughts and speculations
My first motor failed and since that day even til today ive been stuck in the middle with no car that was some time back in may I believe. As all of you read I got another motor about a month ago so from may til a month ago the z sat with no motor and then that failed.
My engine will have a failure report soon. When it does I will post til then I just keep reading everyones thoughts and speculations
Last edited by r0mey; 10-27-2008 at 12:07 AM.
10-27-2008, 12:05 AM
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you will always have a 'what came first, the chicken or the egg" scenario here.
you cannot make deductions from the measurements after the engine has operated, only way to verify poor assembly would have been from an engine that had not ran or been damaged.
What caused the wall wear? could it have been a bad tune resulting in excessive temperatures causing the pistons or rings to expand and damage the walls???
Then with the walls damaged or worn how can you condemn the ring gaps?? as they are measure with the rings in place in the cylinder so if the walls are worn the ring gap will be bigger than when measure with undamaged walls.
And as for possible contanimantion causing wear on the crank, that could have happened at assembly at GTM but also at any time during final install by MRC. Was the engine a short block? if so there are tons of possible sources of rtv during assembly of the long block or if it was a long block from GTM there is a chance for debris to fall in before installing the valve covers or oil pan which usually don't come with longblocks.
So basically I don't find the finding by the third party shop to be such a smoking gun as some make it out to be.
you cannot make deductions from the measurements after the engine has operated, only way to verify poor assembly would have been from an engine that had not ran or been damaged.
What caused the wall wear? could it have been a bad tune resulting in excessive temperatures causing the pistons or rings to expand and damage the walls???
Then with the walls damaged or worn how can you condemn the ring gaps?? as they are measure with the rings in place in the cylinder so if the walls are worn the ring gap will be bigger than when measure with undamaged walls.
And as for possible contanimantion causing wear on the crank, that could have happened at assembly at GTM but also at any time during final install by MRC. Was the engine a short block? if so there are tons of possible sources of rtv during assembly of the long block or if it was a long block from GTM there is a chance for debris to fall in before installing the valve covers or oil pan which usually don't come with longblocks.
So basically I don't find the finding by the third party shop to be such a smoking gun as some make it out to be.
What Gus said is not a "cop out". The 3rd party will only deliver findings. Causality will be arguable even further. I hope all is well for you friend.
10-27-2008, 04:05 AM
#180
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Well I can tell you some shop owners on this site and that site in that thread are hiding $hit. That is where the lack of integrity resides. Its sick what people do for others because they think they are "friends" yet when I speak to one shop about the other, its always somebody getting called out and getting thrown under the bus. Some honesty in this community.