My Build: The Good, The Bad & The Progress
07-11-2009, 08:34 AM
#1562
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The bottom line analysis from Justice was that the motor failed due to massive oil starvation. The origin or cause of that issue remains unknown.
The failure was not found to be either a tuning issue or assembly error. All the bolts that were removed were torqued and pieces were all where they should have been.
I have no idea where this leaves me, but that is why I was asking the question even before teardown. Nobody was negligent (possibly), but I still don't have a car that I paid for and never took posession of, so how can any of this be on me
.
The failure was not found to be either a tuning issue or assembly error. All the bolts that were removed were torqued and pieces were all where they should have been.
I have no idea where this leaves me, but that is why I was asking the question even before teardown. Nobody was negligent (possibly), but I still don't have a car that I paid for and never took posession of, so how can any of this be on me
.i call do over! at no cost to cass (cause that's how it should be)
07-11-2009, 08:37 AM
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that's the problem,there's no way to see if there's a hunk hiding in there to be passed along at a later date....unless you get xkr to x-ray it
07-11-2009, 08:45 AM
#1565
Chris.... PLEASE have one shop do the work this time.... I don't care who... Just one shop... From build to tune....
I was at FP yesterday.... I spoke to Sharif about your car in person..... I just wanted to know what would he do at this point if it was his build..... He gave the answer I expected which will make me sleep better
Sharif is installing alot of new parts on my car... Not because anything is wrong with the old parts.... He just feels for this build we should use new parts...... My point for this is you are welcome to any parts that Sharif removed from my car at no cost to you. Call and speak to him. You know me... I don't know the names of the parts.... But i see a lot of those parts in those horror pic"s.
I was at FP yesterday.... I spoke to Sharif about your car in person..... I just wanted to know what would he do at this point if it was his build..... He gave the answer I expected which will make me sleep better
Sharif is installing alot of new parts on my car... Not because anything is wrong with the old parts.... He just feels for this build we should use new parts...... My point for this is you are welcome to any parts that Sharif removed from my car at no cost to you. Call and speak to him. You know me... I don't know the names of the parts.... But i see a lot of those parts in those horror pic"s.
07-11-2009, 08:52 AM
#1567
Also, I'm not sure what the norm is for road testing with a brand new EMS and dyno time, but Frank says the car had 500 more miles on it now than when it left his shop for tuning.
07-11-2009, 08:58 AM
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ACL's are the best out there. Two of the bearings got destroyed so nothing can be determined for 100% sure on if there was assembly or spec error on those two peices.
Also, I'm not sure what the norm is for road testing with a brand new EMS and dyno time, but Frank says the car had 500 more miles on it now than when it left his shop for tuning.
Also, I'm not sure what the norm is for road testing with a brand new EMS and dyno time, but Frank says the car had 500 more miles on it now than when it left his shop for tuning.
for thous berings to fuze like that to metal must have have be at a very high temp and poss no oil gettin to those parts at all?
07-11-2009, 09:01 AM
#1570
The car had the oil filled all the way to the full line on the dipstick (a no no with the APS kit) and the dipstick oil was shiney and clean. I know Frank only fills to the low mark on the stick since he told me this like 10 times during the first build. I'm sure there will be some questions here on what happened. I expect there will be zero resolution though.
The next build will be done at one single shop for 100% sure. At this pont I don't think the shops have spoken to each other about my car and any resolution, but I am not 100% certain.
The reality is that to replace what I had with the same upgrades plus labor is easily $18-20K . Trust me on this that I am not exaggerating one bit here on the cost. That number even assumes that the block can still be used, if not, tack on another $2K or so.
I am making arrangements to pick up all my parts in the coming week and have the car towed to my house. I'm not sure where the mouse came from, but I need to have the car in my possesion now for my own piece of mind. I have slim hope that this all works out right now, but it doesn't seem that will be the case. I am not willing to settle for anything less than I had in terms of parts or power, so I guess we will see what this week brings.
The next build will be done at one single shop for 100% sure. At this pont I don't think the shops have spoken to each other about my car and any resolution, but I am not 100% certain.
The reality is that to replace what I had with the same upgrades plus labor is easily $18-20K . Trust me on this that I am not exaggerating one bit here on the cost. That number even assumes that the block can still be used, if not, tack on another $2K or so.
I am making arrangements to pick up all my parts in the coming week and have the car towed to my house. I'm not sure where the mouse came from, but I need to have the car in my possesion now for my own piece of mind. I have slim hope that this all works out right now, but it doesn't seem that will be the case. I am not willing to settle for anything less than I had in terms of parts or power, so I guess we will see what this week brings.
Get a lawyer. There is NO Reason you should be willing or rather have to settle for anything less. By my figures they should owe you for the cost of two motors, cost of install and a new turbo kit. So yeah it would be in the best interest of the shops to get me a running car like yesterday.ONE MORE THING! Do Not take delivery of that car yet. Please talk to a lawyer first. I beg you.
If you take delivery of that car all bets could be off as far as you getting this issue resolved correctly. trust me on this.
Last edited by Havok_RLS2; 07-11-2009 at 09:14 AM.
07-11-2009, 09:03 AM
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as i sit here at this computer reading ova all your post chris and knwoin my engine is in the same hands as the both of yours where.. im begining to wonder is going FI really worth it..to end up like this situation.
07-11-2009, 09:51 AM
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). your was dyno broke in so the mileage should not be that high imhoedit-had to dig up your graph looks like 78 dyno pulls were made, seems like alot there but on hindsight the new ecu cut the # of pulls in half.
Last edited by terps; 07-11-2009 at 10:45 AM.
07-11-2009, 11:36 AM
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Get a lawyer. There is NO Reason you should be willing or rather have to settle for anything less. By my figures they should owe you for the cost of two motors, cost of install and a new turbo kit. So yeah it would be in the best interest of the shops to get me a running car like yesterday.ONE MORE THING! Do Not take delivery of that car yet. Please talk to a lawyer first. I beg you.
If you take delivery of that car all bets could be off as far as you getting this issue resolved correctly. trust me on this.
07-11-2009, 11:41 AM
#1574
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i agree, but i didnt wanna go over the issue very hard, plus at that time i heard that he was being taken care off ...:either way chriss took WAY MORE BLAME that he should have
this does not look like a tuning issue
bearings,cams and end play will look like that after a contaminated oil situation,going out on a limb,i would suspect the oil pump ate your bearings.just cause it looks good means squat,it's a close tolerance pump.either pump faliure or the worst assembly ever.....that's my vote
if this was my snafu you would be running already,question is why the dragging of feet?everyone knows they're part of the build.....get it done.who pays what is for later.
bearings,cams and end play will look like that after a contaminated oil situation,going out on a limb,i would suspect the oil pump ate your bearings.just cause it looks good means squat,it's a close tolerance pump.either pump faliure or the worst assembly ever.....that's my vote
if this was my snafu you would be running already,question is why the dragging of feet?everyone knows they're part of the build.....get it done.who pays what is for later.
i hear ya,my problem is one look at that dipstick and i would have known "total loss" and would minimum have a fresh short block on the stand waiting for this one to come out.from what i can see we are still at the head scratching stage and it's been weeks.
idk,i solve my problems like ripping off a bandaid.the longer you linger the more it hurts(for everyone).
idk,i solve my problems like ripping off a bandaid.the longer you linger the more it hurts(for everyone).
this is what i tried to say from teh start, but the "character' people paraded earlier went out the door and the "behind scenes" finger pointing has started, evidence by the classic dance around the issue as the inspection took place, and since not everything has been cleared, i am afraid they are just going to look out for themselves...at the xpense of chris...either nothing done or time wise
dont get discouraged, the lesson you should take from all this isnt pussification... ones shops fails, or trying to take somehting over their head should scare you away from your dreams.. the lesson is go to on shop, that has the experience necessary, and puts customer first....
i am still waiting for the awsome personality to shop up in the face of more fail.
umm yah that not normal , check the dyno theres usually a number on it that relate to pulls. i think my tune had around 50 pulls(ACTUALLY 154 pulls). your was dyno broke in so the mileage should not be that high imho
edit-had to dig up your graph looks like 78 dyno pulls were made, seems like alot there but on hindsight the new ecu cut the # of pulls in half.
). your was dyno broke in so the mileage should not be that high imhoedit-had to dig up your graph looks like 78 dyno pulls were made, seems like alot there but on hindsight the new ecu cut the # of pulls in half.
...who leaked this possible idea???...the one most likely at fault... by the evidence presented on this thread as seen (like the incompetence of a rag, which only defense is "hes is a nice guy"
). WHO CARES about THIS right now, IT SHOULD MAKE NO DIFFERENCE... just get cass on the road!, the shops can go at each other on this issue, call themselves out here in public what ever, but 1st get cass car on the road!
...PS. A RAG AND SO MUCH FAIL...WTF IS UP WITH THE ROADENT DROPPINGS!!!!
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 07-11-2009 at 11:45 AM.
07-11-2009, 12:03 PM
#1575
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This is utterly disgusting.
Something is being missed, and the "professionals" involved are to blame.
Something is being missed, and the "professionals" involved are to blame.
Last edited by BlinkerFluid; 07-11-2009 at 12:06 PM.
07-11-2009, 12:51 PM
#1576
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Im sry to say this, but this is a GIANT fail for Dave & Frank. Neither of them seem to be willing to help Chris resolve this issue and it simply is mind numbing how neither of them is jumping to help Chris resolve this.
