My Build: The Good, The Bad & The Progress
07-13-2009, 06:57 AM
#1641
^ to be honest i belive in this 100% as i look over my invoice from Hill's Garage..
BOLD letters "NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR LOSS OR DAMAGE TO CARS OR ARTICLES LEFT IN CARS IN CASE OF FIRE, THEFT OR ANY OTHER CAUSE"
OF note ...
quote" We welcome you to provide any parts for your project, but any and all parts you would like Hill's Garage to provide for your project will be at your approval only and we will require additional payments as parts are supplied.
Lance, you do understand we do not provide warranty for any parts you provide for your project? We will help anyway possible if issues arise." end quote
bottom line is we as in Chris and I accepted this agreement when we signed over our cars to Hills Garage.
BOLD letters "NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR LOSS OR DAMAGE TO CARS OR ARTICLES LEFT IN CARS IN CASE OF FIRE, THEFT OR ANY OTHER CAUSE"
OF note ...
quote" We welcome you to provide any parts for your project, but any and all parts you would like Hill's Garage to provide for your project will be at your approval only and we will require additional payments as parts are supplied.
Lance, you do understand we do not provide warranty for any parts you provide for your project? We will help anyway possible if issues arise." end quote
bottom line is we as in Chris and I accepted this agreement when we signed over our cars to Hills Garage.
07-13-2009, 07:09 AM
#1642
Everyone in here sees the story though the victim's eyes and yes, the 100% correct thing to do is to get him on the road regardless of whos fault it is. But did anyone stop and think of how the shops view this issue?
From a business perspective, they're not going to offer any compensation unless there is a definite shop to blame for the issue. If you run a business, you know that it's thousands of dollars in resources you have to cough up. So unless you absolutely HAVE TO cough it up: the reality of the situation is... it NEVER will be coughed up unless proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Sorry to bring the bad news, but no one is going to do squat or compensate crap for you Chris... regardless of how friendly they are to you. So if you're just waiting around for them to resolve it, it ain't gonna happen and you're just wasting more time since it seems like ppl are busting out the "I didn't do it... HE DID!" card. At the end of the day: broken motor or not, money's money, and no one wants to give that away unless they're forced to.
"Nice guys always finish last" time to unleash the inner-A**hole! A job needs to get done and someone needs to pay.
From a business perspective, they're not going to offer any compensation unless there is a definite shop to blame for the issue. If you run a business, you know that it's thousands of dollars in resources you have to cough up. So unless you absolutely HAVE TO cough it up: the reality of the situation is... it NEVER will be coughed up unless proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Sorry to bring the bad news, but no one is going to do squat or compensate crap for you Chris... regardless of how friendly they are to you. So if you're just waiting around for them to resolve it, it ain't gonna happen and you're just wasting more time since it seems like ppl are busting out the "I didn't do it... HE DID!" card. At the end of the day: broken motor or not, money's money, and no one wants to give that away unless they're forced to.
"Nice guys always finish last" time to unleash the inner-A**hole! A job needs to get done and someone needs to pay.
What you left out is what is beginning to happen now, how does my situation affect future builds or tunes with the shops involved as customers see that if there is a catastrophic failure that everyone gets alligator arms and tries to say its the other guys fault. People in the Mid-A will always have their favorite shops, but people doing high HP or high $ builds may think twice before working with the shops involved after seeing whats happening to me.
07-13-2009, 07:25 AM
#1644
[QUOTE=Cass007;7542873]
What you left out is what is beginning to happen now, how does my situation affect future builds or tunes with the shops involved as customers see that if there is a catastrophic failure that everyone gets alligator arms and tries to say its the other guys fault. QUOTE]
I follow this section more so then any other section in hops of choosing the right shop when it comes time for me to pull the trigger and the above statement i can say %100 pertains to guys like me. Cass i have to say sorry first and foremost and next thank you. Threads like these what make the forums so invaluable. I hope it all works out and when the smoke clears we'll know what shops will JOIN the do not f&^%*ing go to list.. The forum should have a sticky which lists shops state by state with a user rating (like itader) and what they specialize in.
What you left out is what is beginning to happen now, how does my situation affect future builds or tunes with the shops involved as customers see that if there is a catastrophic failure that everyone gets alligator arms and tries to say its the other guys fault. QUOTE]
I follow this section more so then any other section in hops of choosing the right shop when it comes time for me to pull the trigger and the above statement i can say %100 pertains to guys like me. Cass i have to say sorry first and foremost and next thank you. Threads like these what make the forums so invaluable. I hope it all works out and when the smoke clears we'll know what shops will JOIN the do not f&^%*ing go to list.. The forum should have a sticky which lists shops state by state with a user rating (like itader) and what they specialize in.
07-13-2009, 07:55 AM
#1645
I fully agree with you here and as a business owner myself I completely understand the business side of things. That being said, the car was never in my care, custody or control - someone will be liable in the end and it won't be me. Like I said before, once this gets in front of my attorney its out of my hands and he will do what attornies do - sue everyone involved to make things happen.
What you left out is what is beginning to happen now, how does my situation affect future builds or tunes with the shops involved as customers see that if there is a catastrophic failure that everyone gets alligator arms and tries to say its the other guys fault. People in the Mid-A will always have their favorite shops, but people doing high HP or high $ builds may think twice before working with the shops involved after seeing whats happening to me.
What you left out is what is beginning to happen now, how does my situation affect future builds or tunes with the shops involved as customers see that if there is a catastrophic failure that everyone gets alligator arms and tries to say its the other guys fault. People in the Mid-A will always have their favorite shops, but people doing high HP or high $ builds may think twice before working with the shops involved after seeing whats happening to me.
07-13-2009, 08:46 AM
#1646
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I studied law for years, and if this goes to court: most judges are not auto-mechanics. With that in mind, they will probably bring in 3rd party resources to diagnose the issue and see who is MOST at fault. Judges' don't understand tuning, they don't understand motor building, they don't understand motor assembly... but common logic states that if you leave a gigantic rag while performing any of the above: something WILL go wrong! And it doesn't take a lawyer, a judge, a mechanic, or anyone with an IQ higher than 1 to figure that out.
My predicted outcome:
Judge will rule in favor of both FT and Justice Racing. Frank will end up paying 20k for all that stuff + $350/hr lawyer fees to compensate 3 parties (+ his own making it 4) so he'll probably be out 40k-60k (if not more) once it's all said and done. Much easier to just cough up 20k + pay for 1 party to build it right the first time IMHO.
Consider friendships toast, car is still a good looking paper-weight, and non of the above shops wanting to touch your car again. (and I honestly hope none of the above will come true) But from the way it looks now, it seems like this is how it's going to end up. In the most absolute worst case scenario: someone's going to be out of business and 1 less shop in the Mid-A or someone will still stay in business, have higher insurance rates, and lose a TON of potential business.
07-13-2009, 09:04 AM
#1648
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i got the bill even before your 1st engine was put into your car. But what sold me was when Frank went into detail about your engine as it sat on the engine stand.. thats what made me more confindent in gettin my project done by Frank.
07-13-2009, 09:25 AM
#1649
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^^^ therein lies the problem right now and the shame in all of this. It seems that the shops are putting their own self-interest above doing the right thing to make you whole again asap with the z build you paid them for.
you told me yourself that frank had a negative reaction at the teardown when justice proposed that he should just cover this second motor failure. Frank didn't seem to like that idea, huh?
so is frank really such a "nice guy"???
I indeed think it is time for you to stop being the nice guy and handle "business" by getting your lawyer involved.
Excellent post. I couldn't agree more.
It's time for chris's attorney to jam a lawsuit up some asses "dry and sideways".
you told me yourself that frank had a negative reaction at the teardown when justice proposed that he should just cover this second motor failure. Frank didn't seem to like that idea, huh?
so is frank really such a "nice guy"???
I indeed think it is time for you to stop being the nice guy and handle "business" by getting your lawyer involved.
Excellent post. I couldn't agree more.
It's time for chris's attorney to jam a lawsuit up some asses "dry and sideways".
+10000000
^ to be honest i belive in this 100% as i look over my invoice from Hill's Garage..
BOLD letters "NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR LOSS OR DAMAGE TO CARS OR ARTICLES LEFT IN CARS IN CASE OF FIRE, THEFT OR ANY OTHER CAUSE"
OF note ...
quote" We welcome you to provide any parts for your project, but any and all parts you would like Hill's Garage to provide for your project will be at your approval only and we will require additional payments as parts are supplied.
Lance, you do understand we do not provide warranty for any parts you provide for your project? We will help anyway possible if issues arise." end quote
bottom line is we as in Chris and I accepted this agreement when we signed over our cars to Hills Garage.
BOLD letters "NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR LOSS OR DAMAGE TO CARS OR ARTICLES LEFT IN CARS IN CASE OF FIRE, THEFT OR ANY OTHER CAUSE"
OF note ...
quote" We welcome you to provide any parts for your project, but any and all parts you would like Hill's Garage to provide for your project will be at your approval only and we will require additional payments as parts are supplied.
Lance, you do understand we do not provide warranty for any parts you provide for your project? We will help anyway possible if issues arise." end quote
bottom line is we as in Chris and I accepted this agreement when we signed over our cars to Hills Garage.
It'll be a sad day when this happens since no one shop could agree to whos at fault... there's not much more to be done: the motor's out and torn apart... and STILL no shop says "that's me who did it." which is absurd.
I studied law for years, and if this goes to court: most judges are not auto-mechanics. With that in mind, they will probably bring in 3rd party resources to diagnose the issue and see who is MOST at fault. Judges' don't understand tuning, they don't understand motor building, they don't understand motor assembly... but common logic states that if you leave a gigantic rag while performing any of the above: something WILL go wrong! And it doesn't take a lawyer, a judge, a mechanic, or anyone with an IQ higher than 1 to figure that out.
My predicted outcome:
Judge will rule in favor of both FT and Justice Racing. Frank will end up paying 20k for all that stuff + $350/hr lawyer fees to compensate 3 parties (+ his own making it 4) so he'll probably be out 40k-60k (if not more) once it's all said and done. Much easier to just cough up 20k + pay for 1 party to build it right the first time IMHO.
Consider friendships toast, car is still a good looking paper-weight, and non of the above shops wanting to touch your car again. (and I honestly hope none of the above will come true) But from the way it looks now, it seems like this is how it's going to end up. In the most absolute worst case scenario: someone's going to be out of business and 1 less shop in the Mid-A or someone will still stay in business, have higher insurance rates, and lose a TON of potential business.
I studied law for years, and if this goes to court: most judges are not auto-mechanics. With that in mind, they will probably bring in 3rd party resources to diagnose the issue and see who is MOST at fault. Judges' don't understand tuning, they don't understand motor building, they don't understand motor assembly... but common logic states that if you leave a gigantic rag while performing any of the above: something WILL go wrong! And it doesn't take a lawyer, a judge, a mechanic, or anyone with an IQ higher than 1 to figure that out.
My predicted outcome:
Judge will rule in favor of both FT and Justice Racing. Frank will end up paying 20k for all that stuff + $350/hr lawyer fees to compensate 3 parties (+ his own making it 4) so he'll probably be out 40k-60k (if not more) once it's all said and done. Much easier to just cough up 20k + pay for 1 party to build it right the first time IMHO.
Consider friendships toast, car is still a good looking paper-weight, and non of the above shops wanting to touch your car again. (and I honestly hope none of the above will come true) But from the way it looks now, it seems like this is how it's going to end up. In the most absolute worst case scenario: someone's going to be out of business and 1 less shop in the Mid-A or someone will still stay in business, have higher insurance rates, and lose a TON of potential business.
This is not how things are done.....The guy did not even get a chance to fart in the drivers seat of his own car......Fix the f@cking car first and sort out the "who's at fault " Later. Its not like he drove the car and over boosted it......
I had installed some lightweight pulleys on my car and Sharif had a feeling that is what F-ed up my Crank..he was not 100% sure....he did not once blame it on the pulley....all he said was he is not sure what went wrong .....and he will install another crank for me at no charge....When he told me what he found...I fully expected that I was going to fit the bill......but as Sharif said...he was not sure what caused it.....He fixed my car first and then looked into what could have done it later.......
The same needs to be done here ASAP........I thought the VQ community had gotten rid of all the fly by night shops???? I guess I was wrong!!!!!
Last edited by XKR; 07-13-2009 at 10:00 AM.
07-13-2009, 09:34 AM
#1650
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Imagine if you see dads garage, would you leave yoru car there?, there is a reason why mrS has to pick up customers cars himself andr neve shows his illegal shop..for other reasons than being illegal
. OVbiously its not that you just "accept it" because you were getting some sort of deal from FRank, cause looking at the price and time Cass has spend, there is no hookup.....so he is saying bring in all your own parts you want for your build, but if they get focked or something happens here i am not responsible(because of the above)...heck they could drop it or something else and then claim the opposite... like they can say that rat was in Chris car when he dropped it off or simply say its not our fault... or he is not responsible if the "shop dog" pisses in the cars carpet(this one is just example btw)....or if he leaves dirty rugs around ......
there is no excuse... and under such conditions, why would you want to keep your car there then?
Lance, you do understand we do not provide warranty for any parts you provide for your project? We will help anyway possible if issues arise." end quote
bottom line is we as in Chris and I accepted this agreement when we signed over our cars to Hills Garage.
bottom line is we as in Chris and I accepted this agreement when we signed over our cars to Hills Garage.
you cant agree with a BS of you "pay to play" kind of discalimer.... especially if its used as an EXCUSE FOR FAIL 
07-13-2009, 10:04 AM
#1651
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Any autoshop owner in the business will tell you - "Word of Mouth" and a shops "Reputation" is 100% why new customers walk through the door and plop down $20K or more on a major build. The more specialized the work, the more brutal the process of keeping a 100% clean reputation. Problems happen, but for a shop to remain in business longterm, it must be capable of surviving a major catastrophe like what happened on Cass' car.
Surviving the castrophe ultimately means making the customer "happy". Right now Cass is obviously far from happy.
Surviving the castrophe ultimately means making the customer "happy". Right now Cass is obviously far from happy.
07-13-2009, 12:25 PM
#1655
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Originally Posted by XKR
I had installed some lightweight pulleys on my car and Sharif had a feeling that is what F-ed up my Crank..he was not 100% sure....he did not once blame it on the pulley....all he said was he is not sure what went wrong .....and he will install another crank for me at no charge....When he told me what he found...I fully expected that I was going to fit the bill......but as Sharif said...he was not sure what caused it.....He fixed my car first and then looked into what could have done it later.......
07-13-2009, 12:59 PM
#1656
I spoke to Dave today. He called and apologized for being out of the loop as he had a customer in a hotel waiting on his build that took longer than expected. Dave said that he does not feel as though he made any errors or contributed to the failure in any way, but he does feel that I need to be taken care of as a customer. He again offered his built motor and I explained that I lost everything again and a motor would not make me whole.
I explained where the other shops were in regards to any efforts to make me happy (none) and that I am being pushed into a corner with no options on what to do other than sue everyone.
Dave said he will attempt to contact the other parties and mediate a solution for me that will get me back to where I was previously. I told him I would consider a solution if upon rebiuld either F:T or Justice was 100% responsible for my car (Hills doesn't tune).
I spoke to Frank later and he had not spoken to Dave yet. He said he was sorry, but there is no gaurantee for builds like mine and he would have taken care of me if the teardown would have revealed that he was at fault for the failure. He and I both see where this is headed, awkward and sad doesn't even begin to cover how it feels.
I had one of my employees pick up my parts from Hills today and am attempting to get the car towed back to my house asap.
Thats it for today.... time to start drinking again, its becoming a daily habit. I can tell I'm getting short tempered with my wife, son and employees. I'm trying to compartmentalize this, but its stressing me out.
I explained where the other shops were in regards to any efforts to make me happy (none) and that I am being pushed into a corner with no options on what to do other than sue everyone.
Dave said he will attempt to contact the other parties and mediate a solution for me that will get me back to where I was previously. I told him I would consider a solution if upon rebiuld either F:T or Justice was 100% responsible for my car (Hills doesn't tune).
I spoke to Frank later and he had not spoken to Dave yet. He said he was sorry, but there is no gaurantee for builds like mine and he would have taken care of me if the teardown would have revealed that he was at fault for the failure. He and I both see where this is headed, awkward and sad doesn't even begin to cover how it feels.
I had one of my employees pick up my parts from Hills today and am attempting to get the car towed back to my house asap.
Thats it for today.... time to start drinking again, its becoming a daily habit. I can tell I'm getting short tempered with my wife, son and employees. I'm trying to compartmentalize this, but its stressing me out.
07-13-2009, 01:17 PM
#1657
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... this is sad to hear...... amazing what the "quality" and "good personality" have done to you ...THEIR FAIL ISNT WORTH YOUR TEMPER BRO!....get a lawyer or something...this is ridiculous...none of them are thinking of your best interest... total FAIL by HILL....actually cass, i would take on daves offer.... and have frank pay you back the difference on the engine...after the lawyers are done with his BS..... you can still upgrade later....and i bet the Tune and the turbos will go a long way in your power curve!....maybe get crazier fuel system...i dunno
...but stay away from the epic fail that has only taken your money in the end, your happiness, your time, and only delivered a dirty rag, rodent droppings, and 2 blown engines....
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 07-13-2009 at 03:12 PM.
07-13-2009, 02:12 PM
#1659
Sounds like its time for you to throw Hills Garage under the bus. Two blown motors neither are his fault.......so much for his reputation as a stand up guy. Before this I had heard about how good he was and I live thousands of miles away. What a dissapointment to see people get taken care of like this. I hope it works out for you in the end Cass.
07-13-2009, 02:50 PM
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I spoke to Dave today. He called and apologized for being out of the loop as he had a customer in a hotel waiting on his build that took longer than expected. Dave said that he does not feel as though he made any errors or contributed to the failure in any way, but he does feel that I need to be taken care of as a customer. He again offered his built motor and I explained that I lost everything again and a motor would not make me whole.
I explained where the other shops were in regards to any efforts to make me happy (none) and that I am being pushed into a corner with no options on what to do other than sue everyone.
Dave said he will attempt to contact the other parties and mediate a solution for me that will get me back to where I was previously. I told him I would consider a solution if upon rebiuld either F:T or Justice was 100% responsible for my car (Hills doesn't tune).
I spoke to Frank later and he had not spoken to Dave yet. He said he was sorry, but there is no gaurantee for builds like mine and he would have taken care of me if the teardown would have revealed that he was at fault for the failure. He and I both see where this is headed, awkward and sad doesn't even begin to cover how it feels.
I had one of my employees pick up my parts from Hills today and am attempting to get the car towed back to my house asap.
Thats it for today.... time to start drinking again, its becoming a daily habit. I can tell I'm getting short tempered with my wife, son and employees. I'm trying to compartmentalize this, but its stressing me out.
I explained where the other shops were in regards to any efforts to make me happy (none) and that I am being pushed into a corner with no options on what to do other than sue everyone.
Dave said he will attempt to contact the other parties and mediate a solution for me that will get me back to where I was previously. I told him I would consider a solution if upon rebiuld either F:T or Justice was 100% responsible for my car (Hills doesn't tune).
I spoke to Frank later and he had not spoken to Dave yet. He said he was sorry, but there is no gaurantee for builds like mine and he would have taken care of me if the teardown would have revealed that he was at fault for the failure. He and I both see where this is headed, awkward and sad doesn't even begin to cover how it feels.
I had one of my employees pick up my parts from Hills today and am attempting to get the car towed back to my house asap.
Thats it for today.... time to start drinking again, its becoming a daily habit. I can tell I'm getting short tempered with my wife, son and employees. I'm trying to compartmentalize this, but its stressing me out.
Who would have Hill's build them a motor or even perform a brake upgrade after what has just happened here to Cass ?