I am looking at this diagram, trying to figure out the proper way to run my lines for a Tial 38mm wastegate:

http://www.tialsport.com/documents/w..._wginstall.pdf

I have never installed one, so I just wanted somebody to clarify something to me.

Looking at the diagram, there is a hose (connecte to charge pipe before TB) that goes to the wastegate and T's off. After it splits, one leg goes to the lower portion of the wastegate, and the other goes to a "manual air regulator or electronic air controll valve" I am assuming that they are talking about a boost conroller, is this correct?

Now for the top half of the wastegate, they say "vent to atmosphere or add air for adjustable boost controller". Lookin at this it would make sense to me to run that (top hose) to the intake manifold (post TB). Wouldn't that aid in opening the waste gate quicker? As the TB closes the air pressure inside the charge pipe before the TB would increase, and eventually vent through the BOV, but in the mean time increase the pressure in the lower part of the wastegate. The IM would go into vacuum, helping the wastegate open.

Maybe I am missing something here do to lack of experience. If soumebody could plese clarify this I would really apreciate it.

 

If you put the top port direct to the plenum you would end up with a pretty sweet surprise, easily double the spring pressure! I dont know if you intend to run a boost controller but if you dont just run a boost reference line to the bottom port and vent the top(nothing connected to it) that will provide you with your intended spring pressure.

 

Thanks for the input. No boost controller, just wastegate spring (6psi).

I was looking at that diagram again, and I am having trouble understanding why the boost pressure would be double if the top half of the wastegate was connected to the plenum. I guess I am trying to understand it.

I am not questioning you, I know how much experience you have with this.

 

the top port would be introducing boost to the top of the wastegate trying to keep it closed while the bottom port would be trying to open it up, so not sure if it would be double but it would definitely increase your boost past the base spring pressure

this why you connect the boost controller to the top port so it keeps it closed until you reach you boost setting on the controller.

 

Since air compresses you would essentially be introducing an air spring to assist the steel spring in keeping the plunger down.

This is the theory the NLR AMS1000 and the AMS500 work off of, you run a small bottle of compressed air in the car(or nitrous..) thats feeding the boost controller and the boost controller would feed a metered amount to the top port only increasing the spring pressure. Using there method you can turn a 6psi spring into a 40psi spring if you have 34psi of compressed air in you cylinder to assist the top port.

I dont know if any of that makes cents but thats the same theory as feeding boost to the top port but not as dramatic, since it would only be a few psi.

Hope that helps.

 

I understand that, and it makes perfect sense. What I was thinking is that if the top half of the wastegate is connected to the plenum, the moment the TB plate closes, plenum goes into vacuum hence the top half of the wastegate goes into vacuum as well. This would aid the wastegate in opening. This is how it works with a BOV, as the plenum goes into vaccum so does the BOV "chamber", helping the compressed air in the piping overcome the spring pressure venting the air charge.

Maybe I'am overlooking something, but that's how I am looking at it.

 

Best way to find out is to give it a try!.....................(Please please for the sake of your motor dont, this is one of those things you just have to accept)

I can tell your used to roots type blowers, and bypass valves. different concept all together.

You seem pretty determined to have your waste gate open with vacuum,answer me this, why would you want your waste gate to open in vacuum???

I might be able to understand and answer your question better with that answer.







Your a very intelligent individual, I know you'll get it soon, just think opposite of what you think is right, I know exactly where you are getting confused, similar concept to a bov yet very different.

Sorry if I confused you even more, I'll explain it clearly after this if you still have trouble with it, I just want you to learn the ninja secrets of the waste gate!

 

do not hook up a vacuum/boost source to the top of the wastegate other than a boost controller unless you want boooom

 

LOL!

Don't make this harder that it is. If you aren't running a boost controller, the side ports of your WG goto manifold pressure (T them if needed). That's it!

 

Oh no, I wil not connect it to hte plenum, don't worry about that. I trust that you guys won't misinform me...lol, and the Tial diagram tells me to vent it as well. I am not ignoring your suggestions, and I am not determined to hook it up that way. Just trying to understand it, that's all.

Like I said it makes perfect sence to hook the bottom port to the piping pre TB, it's simple physics. I guess I just confused myself with the top port.

Thanks guys, and don't worry, I am not THAT stuborn.

 

So if you are running a wastegate in this scenario, the side port of the was WG goes to the boost controller and the top port vents to the atmosphere? To the boost controller?

 

anybody?

 

yes

 

Judging by the diagram, it appears that if you are running a MBC the side port of the WG goes to the bottom of MBC and from the MBC side port it goes to the top of the WG. It does not vent to atmosphere. It only vents to atmosphere when not running a MBC.

Your choice vent to atmosphere when not running a MBC or No vent and back to MBC when running a MBC.

Can someone clarify this.

 

thats what I thought, I took a look under my car a few weeks ago and noticed the line missing from the top of the wastegate (car is building boost but it feels like there is not pressure and builds very slow).

I am going to put a vacuum line going back to the MBC today.

 

let me know what happens because thats the way mine is set up. I'm taking my car to get tuned this weekend coming and have been driving it like that for a few days on a base map. Be Cautious, close the MBC all the way then turn it a couple times to see how much boost you build. If you have a UTEC make sure you set fuel cut off at what ever psi you feel comfortable with (if its set up that way).

The way I see it, the MBC lets more air into the top port of WG as you open it. The more you open the MBC the more air hence, the more boost. But, thats just my opinion. Anyone else have something to add?

 

I am a little confused. I think its mainly fear of accidentally running too much boost.

Ive looked at countless MBC diagrams now and all of them have two ports. Mine has three, I am assuming this MBC tees off the the air source to the bottom port of the MBC and last nipple is routed to the top of the wastegate?


http://www.esetuning.com/ProductDeta...OOD&click=1429

This is the boost controller that I am using. The black nipple tees off the air supply from the charge pipe?