XKR Super G... Going for Mach 1
09-10-2009, 06:37 PM
#1063
The question is what is wrong? Are they missing a factor of 100 somewhere? Did they really mean radius or diameter instead of area?
That's what Raj and I have beed discussing. It's pretty self explanatory.
Mike, this was right at the bottom of the post where I did the calculations:
"EDIT: I HAVE AN E-MAIL INTO GARRETT TO FIND OUT IF THERE IS A FACTOR (E.G., 100) THAT NEEDS TO BE THROWN IN HERE SOMEWHERE. THEY CERTAINLY HAVE NOT INDICATED ANY SUCH FACTOR ON THEIR WEB SITE, BUT AS RAJ HAS INDICATED, THESE INLET AREA VALUES SEEM AWFULLY SMALL. "
In summary, as Garrett has defined their A/R ratio, it won't work, as everyone has noticed. Thus, Garrett needs to step up to the plate and provide the missing data, which I have asked them for. Once we have that, we can get back to comparing the true area (since the one computed by their A/R ratio does not work) of the inlet to the inlet flange. That way, we can come up with an approximation as to the real loss between the T25 and T3 flanges.
This should calm RudeG down. We are the forum (at least I am) telling Garrett how to fix their publications and, in response to the other issues I addressed with them this morning, they are at least listening and responding.
EDIT: What brought this about is the realization of the size differences between the different flanges. Now, initially, those size differences look really scary. It may not be as big of an issue as it appears to be. We just need to work the the analysis. Once I get the information back from Garrett, my next comparison will be the inlet diameter vs. the inlet flange. I then can do some further calculations to shed more light on the subject.
EDIT EDIT: Mike, let me know if you have an issue with those topics in this thread. If so, once I get the information back from Garrett I can start a new thread. Otherwise, this thread seems like a pretty good place considering just about everybody playing, or thinking about playing, with high hp is visiting. Also, being in here and not a brand new thread, we are not getting useless comments from the noobs, i.e., Raj and I can focus on emperical research without interruption, d@mn it!!!
Last edited by ttg35fort; 09-10-2009 at 07:27 PM.
09-11-2009, 05:25 AM
#1064
Don't do it Mike! I think it would be dangerous to stop Terry now. His brain is at WOT in 2nd gear - let him finish the run, hopefully with a little help from Garrett. Remember what happened when Luie let up suddenly at WOT? His plenum exploded. Just imagine what might happen to Terry's brain if you pull him up short. Don't do it Mike! 
EDIT: More seriously Terry, maybe we should just be looking at turbine flow curves (as provided by Garrett), rather than trying to determine the cross-sectional area at some arbitrary point in the turbine housing, which is used more to compare like turbos (i.e. different flavors of the GT3071) than anything else. I would like to know how the GT35 turbo mounts up to the T25 flange when Garrett doesn't provide a T25 inlet for the GT35. Must be a GT35 hybrid then? I think someone posted to that effect?
EDIT: More seriously Terry, maybe we should just be looking at turbine flow curves (as provided by Garrett), rather than trying to determine the cross-sectional area at some arbitrary point in the turbine housing, which is used more to compare like turbos (i.e. different flavors of the GT3071) than anything else. I would like to know how the GT35 turbo mounts up to the T25 flange when Garrett doesn't provide a T25 inlet for the GT35. Must be a GT35 hybrid then? I think someone posted to that effect?
Last edited by rcdash; 09-11-2009 at 05:32 AM.
09-11-2009, 05:33 AM
#1065
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Don't do it Mike! I think it would be dangerous to stop Terry now. His brain is at WOT in 2nd gear - let him finish the run, hopefully with a little help from Garrett. Remember what happened when Luie let up suddenly at WOT? His plenum exploded. Just imagine what might happen to Terry's brain if you pull him up short. Don't do it Mike!
EDIT: More seriously Terry, maybe we should just be looking at turbine flow curves (as provided by Garrett), rather than trying to determine the cross-sectional area at some arbitrary point in the turbine housing, which is used more to compare like turbos than anything else.
EDIT: More seriously Terry, maybe we should just be looking at turbine flow curves (as provided by Garrett), rather than trying to determine the cross-sectional area at some arbitrary point in the turbine housing, which is used more to compare like turbos than anything else.
Thats too funny....It's kool Terry... Just keep it simple so all can understand...... I lose Brain cells when I read some of that stuff
Last edited by XKR; 09-11-2009 at 05:37 AM.
09-11-2009, 05:51 AM
#1066
Its gotta be a hybrid GT35 turbo with a gt30 turbine. GTM only makes 1 manifold also, so there can only be 1 turbine flange for all their stages. After seeing the fitment, it would take some serious body work to fit much bigger. Since this thread is so long, prolly why Sam or George havent responded about exact specs.
If the above is the case, that might be an AWESOME street turbo. It will spool way faster than the normal t3/t4 housing gt35 and still has a big compressor wheel.
If the above is the case, that might be an AWESOME street turbo. It will spool way faster than the normal t3/t4 housing gt35 and still has a big compressor wheel.
09-11-2009, 06:02 AM
#1067
Its gotta be a hybrid GT35 turbo with a gt30 turbine. GTM only makes 1 manifold also, so there can only be 1 turbine flange for all their stages. After seeing the fitment, it would take some serious body work to fit much bigger. Since this thread is so long, prolly why Sam or George havent responded about exact specs.
If the above is the case, that might be an AWESOME street turbo. It will spool way faster than the normal t3/t4 housing gt35 and still has a big compressor wheel.
If the above is the case, that might be an AWESOME street turbo. It will spool way faster than the normal t3/t4 housing gt35 and still has a big compressor wheel.
09-11-2009, 06:04 AM
#1068
Don't do it Mike! I think it would be dangerous to stop Terry now. His brain is at WOT in 2nd gear - let him finish the run, hopefully with a little help from Garrett. Remember what happened when Luie let up suddenly at WOT? His plenum exploded. Just imagine what might happen to Terry's brain if you pull him up short. Don't do it Mike!
From
to
09-11-2009, 06:10 AM
#1069
Don't do it Mike! I think it would be dangerous to stop Terry now. His brain is at WOT in 2nd gear - let him finish the run, hopefully with a little help from Garrett. Remember what happened when Luie let up suddenly at WOT? His plenum exploded. Just imagine what might happen to Terry's brain if you pull him up short. Don't do it Mike!
EDIT: More seriously Terry, maybe we should just be looking at turbine flow curves (as provided by Garrett), rather than trying to determine the cross-sectional area at some arbitrary point in the turbine housing, which is used more to compare like turbos (i.e. different flavors of the GT3071) than anything else. I would like to know how the GT35 turbo mounts up to the T25 flange when Garrett doesn't provide a T25 inlet for the GT35. Must be a GT35 hybrid then? I think someone posted to that effect?
EDIT: More seriously Terry, maybe we should just be looking at turbine flow curves (as provided by Garrett), rather than trying to determine the cross-sectional area at some arbitrary point in the turbine housing, which is used more to compare like turbos (i.e. different flavors of the GT3071) than anything else. I would like to know how the GT35 turbo mounts up to the T25 flange when Garrett doesn't provide a T25 inlet for the GT35. Must be a GT35 hybrid then? I think someone posted to that effect?
Unfortunately, I have not seen flow curves for the same turbo using different flanges. I'll ask Garrett if they have any.
I think the logical conclusion is that it is a non-standard Garret part, built with the T25 flange. I called GTM yesterday and I didn't get the name of the guy I talked to (it wasn't George or Sam), but he confirmed that their manifolds use the T25 flanges.
Next time around I'll start a new thread for discussions that look like they will start getting deep. We'll keep it light in here. If anyone is interested in the details, then they can jump to the other thread.
I originally didn't intend on posting the Algebra (at least it was Calc or solving a differential equation or matrix
), but when you asked about my math, well, I didn't want you to think I was pulling it out of my @ss. 
On that note, I have updated the spreadsheet that I previously sent you with the calculations. Once Garrett gets back to me, I'll update it. If you want an updated copy, let me know.
EDIT: If I don't hear back from Garrett today, I'll run down to Japtrix tomorrow and measure my 3071 turbos. Then, if someone else can measure another Garrett turbo model, we should be able to identify the error in Garrett's formula.
Last edited by ttg35fort; 09-11-2009 at 06:20 AM.
^^^^^^
:ic on20:
09-11-2009, 10:14 AM
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