As many of you know from posts in Jay'Z and my threads it seems that the new APS TT Tuner kits that have the journal bearing turbos will not make power similar to the older style Garrett BB turbos.

Getting solid info on these new turbos is like seeing Bigfoot, lots of stories and rumors, not a lot of hard info or dyno sheets. We have very reputable shops selling these kits to members and other very reputable shops saying that members should avaoid the same kit. There is a similar discussion between shops regarding who actually produces these journal bearing turbos for APS now - is it a Garrett product made for APS, or a cut rate product that is prone to failure.

I spent a lot of time yesterday reseaching sale threads and seeing shop claims from 400-571whp on stock blocks with this new APS TT kit and posts saying that the quality of the new turbos was as good or better than the older design. It was posts like these that lead me to believe that this kit would get me to the 600whp goal I had hoped to achieve.

My question is this, if you were in a similar position to myself, would you:

1. Install the APS journal turbos to see how much hp they really make and help end the discussion about these products

2. Swap out the turbos prior to install to a proven Garrett product that will get you to your chosen hp goal

The swap has an estimated expense of $2200+, but if I start with the existing turbos and then switch at a later date, I am looking at more labor and tuning cost. Lastly, I need to come to grips with the possibility that if I install the turbos that came with the kit I may only be able to get 450whp or so on a DD dyno (basically Greddy TT stock block power) and that would make my almost $30K build seem very much like a bust.

ANY feedback from ALL members is appreciated - Thanks Cass!!

 

if i were you i would just upgrade from the get go, some people say journal bearing turbos are almost as good as BB but others say its not even close

if you wanna be the test subject, than i'm sure everyone will appreciate you taking one for the team

 

swap out the turbos now not later. no use being dissapointed after spending so much $.

 

Im looking for the same info on the new aps kits. If some one has the AR or compressor graphs from the old turbos and the new ones to compare then we can work it out what the will make.

If the only thing that changed was the bearing style then the "should" make the same power at the same boost level. They my lag more due to the bearings but once on boost its down to the compressor specs what power it makes.

Im info info on this one.....

 

swap turbos for proven garretts [/thread]

dont leave it to chance that you might find dissapointment still if you dont correct this now, also what if later on you decide to push it a bit more?(cuase your setup can handle more). Remember why i said go with the aps extreme? Anyways brutha... there you go, my 2 cents. swap for real gt28rs

 

Swap out turbo. .

 

just curious, why didnt you go with the aps extreme kit anyways since you were going for a big build?

 

2860RSs are great. But, IMO, swap for Garrett GT2871R. P/N:743347-4. Spool fast and make sick power.
You wont be sorry!

 

those turbos gonna get u to 600whp easy.

i just knew a guy in Qatar using the same kit, i helpd him tuning his timing map, i sent him the map, he dynod his car and it puts donw to the wheels a nice smooth 505whp on DD Dyno with just 15 psi,

allso his Fuel was not tuned , the AFR was not that good, thats cuz it was just a base map. but the pwoer was good.

 

Either Jayz or Cass007 should:

One of you install the APS turner kit turbos. Check for rwhp. If not up to the 600 rwhp, then replace with Garrett sized for the magic number. If plan A the plan is too much to bear, uninstall the kit an move on (i.e. easier to sell as near new/unused condition IMHO). My double lincolns.

 

I was in a similar situation in the middle of my first build. At first all I wanted was the TN kit maxed. As the day grew nearer that I had the option of putting in another kit, I realistically chose the Greddy option. TRUST me I know how hard it is to swallow the price of another kit/snails, after the bill for a build, but I am VERY happy I did it right the first time. Not one day has passed where I have regretted the Greddy kit.

I feel for you, but remember it will be more expensive to swap later, better to do it now, even if it means waiting longer to have the $$$/get back on the road.

 

just looked at jayzs thread, i would swap them out. it b.s. i always like aps products but this is ridicoulous, some guy states 430 dynojet @13psi, the single kit can do that. i would be heated.

 

I dont know much about the APS kit.....so I dont know if my 700BB turbo's will fit....if it will....I will help you with the price....especially that Sharif has them....Let me know.

 

Part of me wants you to keep the APS turbos, just so we can remove doubt that it is the turbos.

But, it will be cheaper, and less grief, for you to just upgrade the turbos now.

Best of luck which ever way you go!

-George
GT Motorsports

 

I stumbled across some possible good fortune today. I was doing research on my problem and visited the Garrett website, then I brought up the distributor list.....only 5 distributors in the US and one of them is only an hour away from me!!

These guys are approved by Garrett for replacement/rebuilds and have extensive knowlege of Garrett components. I spoke with them by phone today and they said if I take them one of my APS journal turbos they will able to tell me if it does indeed have any Garrett components in it at all. I was also told that they will be able to identify the components and their dimensions and be able to provide me with a rough hp # that they could produce.

Additionally, they will be able to tell me what if anything may be able to be changed on the existing turbo to get me to my hp goal .

Then I was given a bit of dirt, the tech I spoke with said he was at SEMA this year and there was much discussion with Garrett regarding the new APS turbos and no solid answers were given. Not even Garrett reps themselves could confirm that they are involved in the production of the newer turbos. I did a visual inspection of my turbo again today and noticed that there is not a single identifying mark on the entire thing - no APS or Garrett logos or serial numbers of any kind. From what I have heard, this is somewhat odd .

I hope to get up to Blouch Turbo tomorrow and I will keep everyone updated on the results.

 

So you're running "Bob's turbos"

lol

best of luck, hopefully the garret approved dude's can help ya

 

Looking forward to the info !!

 

I'm not promoting anyone here at all, I just figured that if Garrett trusts them, I should be able to as well .
I'm not running anything yet, I'm just trying to get more info and help the forum community as a whole. If I can help settle the debate on these turbos once and for all then others can make more informed decisions when purchasing. I still like APS, but I would have gotten something different had I known that these turbos would not meet my hp goals.
The real questions is, if I had not modified my pipes (Jet-Hot), would my vendor offer me a full refund since my kit was never installed and it was sold to me as having Garrett turbos?

 

I fully agree 100% on both of these points. Maybe Dave will offer a free retune if I install the ones that came with the kit and then upgrade - for the sake of research.

 

I hear you on this, but replacement time and retunes aren't free. Selling the kit is not a realistic option right now, besides, other than the possibly weaksauce turbos I really like the rest of the design.