MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (8)

Yesterday I was street tuning in 3rd gear after doing a RFS install. I had leaned the UTEC 14psi #9 coloum out and it wanst enough, still to rich 10.5 to 10.2 and got a 1 count in te knock at 5500 - 6000 Timing is 11 deg advanced here while I am getting the AFR worked out. So I switch my boost controller to 12.5psi where the AFR is a bit better. I do a pull to check if the changes I made for the 1 bar #9 coloum effected the 12.5 #8 colum, it realy didnt, still 10.5.10.7 AFR or so, but I did again get a 1 count of knock in the 5500-6000 range again. So I decided to open my 3" E-Cut out thats on my Y pipe and see how it skewed the AFR. Well the AFR jumped up to 11.7, boost stayed the same, BUT the knock was gone. Either the 1 count of knock is from a turbine back pressure issue thats causing some over heating ( my exhaust is stock after the 3" Y pipe) or its from being too rich and showing up as spark blow out. Crazy.

Any ideas or input is appreciated.

JS04

iTrader: (6)

I really don't count a knock of 1 as knock because it could be a lot of things. When I data log I noticed that sometimes I get an incident of one every now and then. Its really random. Now if it was doing it 6 times or more then there is a problem.

ADMAN

iTrader: (9)

Yeah, maybe just random. Has it gotten worse?

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (8)

Here are the UTI UTEC logs. I have the knock threshold set at 2 so the UTEC does nothing for a 1 count. It makes me think its a fuel issue not a timing issue. Ive updated the fuel map and if the rain sops here today I may go for a test run.

E Cut out closed
[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][TPS][LOD][KN][IPWm][IGN][WBO2][CTf][ATf]
000.00 4782 +2.7 101 30 0 9.28 15.6 11.93 189 82
000.19 4913 +6.4 100 50 0 12.02 15.2 10.99 189 84
000.41 5082 +9.2 101 60 0 13.03 15.0 11.24 187 84
000.61 5254 +9.7 99 60 0 12.95 14.8 11.28 189 86
000.81 5392 +10.0 101 70 0 12.86 14.4 11.23 187 84
001.00 5504 +10.5 100 70 0 12.93 14.6 11.17 189 88
001.20 5613 +10.6 101 70 0 12.76 14.7 11.14 187 86
001.41 5701 +10.7 100 70 0 12.86 14.6 11.11 189 88
001.59 5797 +11.0 99 70 0 12.77 14.6 11.08 189 88
001.80 5905 +11.1 100 70 0 12.78 14.7 11.01 189 90
002.00 5984 +11.3 99 70 0 12.85 14.3 10.95 189 90
002.20 6026 +11.8 99 80 0 13.28 13.8 10.89 189 91
002.41 6062 +12.6 99 80 0 13.42 13.2 10.74 187 93
002.61 6136 +12.6 100 80 0 13.36 13.0 10.45 189 95
002.80 6208 +12.6 100 80 1 13.38 13.2 10.26 189 95
003.00 6264 +12.7 100 80 1 13.52 13.0 10.20 190 97
003.20 6342 +12.7 99 80 1 13.40 13.3 10.11 189 97
003.41 6378 +12.7 100 80 1 13.30 13.0 10.08 189 99
003.61 6430 +12.7 99 80 1 13.42 12.9 10.11 190 99
003.80 6493 +12.4 94 80 0 13.36 13.2 10.09 190 100

E Cut out open
[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][TPS][LOD][KN][IPWm][IGN][WBO2][CTf][ATf]
000.00 4107 +1.9 74 20 0 9.09 16.4 12.75 187 82
000.19 4276 +5.2 97 40 0 11.00 16.0 12.14 189 84
000.41 4465 +9.2 101 70 0 13.09 15.6 11.96 187 84
000.61 4659 +10.5 100 70 0 13.78 15.0 11.81 187 86
000.81 4844 +10.9 102 70 0 13.67 14.4 11.68 187 84
001.00 4995 +11.1 100 70 0 13.62 14.1 11.76 187 88
001.20 5132 +11.2 101 70 0 13.66 13.8 11.89 187 86
001.41 5263 +11.2 100 70 0 13.50 13.7 11.87 187 90
001.59 5371 +11.7 101 70 0 13.67 13.7 11.87 187 88
001.80 5526 +12.0 100 80 0 13.72 13.5 11.81 187 90
002.00 5652 +12.1 100 80 0 13.72 13.3 11.76 187 91
002.20 5752 +12.2 100 80 0 13.60 13.3 11.62 187 93
002.41 5851 +12.2 100 80 0 13.52 13.3 11.52 187 95
002.59 5956 +12.4 100 80 0 13.64 13.3 11.52 187 95
002.80 6067 +12.5 100 80 0 13.53 13.0 11.49 187 97
003.00 6154 +12.2 99 80 0 13.57 13.0 11.45 189 97
003.20 6251 +12.6 100 80 0 13.46 13.4 11.42 189 99
003.41 6326 +12.5 99 80 0 13.53 13.4 11.42 189 99
003.61 6437 +12.2 98 80 0 13.35 13.0 11.34 189 100
003.80 6541 +12.7 93 70 0 13.26 13.5 11.23 189 104

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

Matt,

are you hearing any audible knock on the pulls when you log it? As I said before, I would tend to agree with JS04 on that no being real knock. Weird that it's happening in multiple consecutive RPM samples though. When I get small knock counts it's usually only 1 or 2 samples in a row.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (8)

Ive had auidable knock recently just once recently and that was like a 6 or 10 count. The 1 counts feel like spark blow out, Ive had it before on the Maxima, but never yet on the Z. Ive never herd the knock with a one or two count.

JS04

iTrader: (6)

Yea that is very strange that its in consecutive RPMs. When mine does it, its more like 1 count at 4200 then another 5800rpm. It won't be like that all the time since its really random. Hmmmm defintley intersting when you have the cutout closed.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

After corresponding back and forth with streetzlegend in another post, I realized that sometimes we (especially me!) get caught up in all of the various technologies that we now have at our finger tips, that we sometimes forget to go back to basics. Pull out one or more spark plugs and inspect them. Here is a link that provides information on fault analysis:

http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/t.../diagnosis.htm

Compare your spark plugs to this chart and let us know which scenario they most closely match.

That will give us very valuable information we can use to diagnose the issue before we get too far off course.

This link also provides some good information:

http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (8)

Spark plug reading is very useful. Its really only useful if you put in a fresh set, do a pull or run and then shut the car off immediately. Otherwise the plugs can get cleaned up by driving them under normal conditions. In my case if i was getting over heating I may see the ground strap has a bluish discoloration on it all the way to the threads. However if I looked now, I would have know way of knowing if it happened on the very last pull or last week. Same thing with the pepper marks, I wouldn't know if it was from the last pull or if it happened last week. Its a very good suggestion and is indeed extremely useful if you can easily swap the plugs like on a dyno or at the drag strip, unfortunately I don't have the money to spend nor the time to give up just now. Please don't take me the wrong way, I appreciate the suggestion, I have used it before in a drag application.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (2)

Im no expert or anything, just curious. How come your timing is so low at 11 degree's? Cant having too low in timing cause high EGT's and cause knocking? That plus a restrictive exhaust piping that can further increase heat.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (8)

Trying to get the AFR close before I start advancing the timing. Im sure the factory rear section is a major bottleneck. Thats why I have the 3" e cuto out. Its pretty much the best of both worlds, quiet when I want and LOUD when I want.

Nealoc187

I do not believe that is real knock matt, at least not caused by timing. Perhaps pre-ign caused by a super hot valve because of super high EGTs from timing being way too retarded. I'd put the timing up in to the range brian mentioned in his PM. You've pulled way too much imho, and also why are you running less and less advance from torque peak to redline. You should be running more and more advance from tq peak to redline.

On brian's utec we've always completely disregarded 1s and 2s, they seem to be random, single instances. Yours is a little more defined but I still don't think it's ignition caused unless it's from EGTs being too high.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

+1. I think it may be "noise" also. The timing is conservative but I don't think it's unusually low for 14 psi, but it should be advancing towards redline.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (8)

Once I get the AFR up in the low 11s I plan to add back the timing. I agree the low timing could be an issue. I was realy wondering if anyone had ever had a UTEC pick up spark blow out as knock or noise?

streetzlegend

iTrader: (2)

Not related to the UTEC but on my Emanage, I log my KS via a voltage input, I was having serious spark blowout/misfire issues at 6k, and during that misfire event, the knock sensor would spike to 5v ("knock"). So perhaps the UTEC is picking up spark blowout and interpreting it as knock?

Like Neal said I think the knocking might be due to the timing being too retarded, specially since timing is going down instead of up and therefore knocking at higher rpm's.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (8)

Here are two logs to check out. The first is with the exhaust cut out closed. The second is with the exhaust cut out open. On the first run I felt the power get soft in the high 5k/rpmrange of the false knock. Its got to be picking up the spark blow out misfire as knock a knock event. Notice that on the second run with the exhaust cut out the AFR is up and the knock is almost gone. Im going to get a bit more aggressive on the AFR adjustments and see how it turns out later today.

[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][TPS][LOD][KN][IPWm][IGN][FMVL][WBO2][CTf][ATf]
000.00 3736 +2.4 51 20 0 9.06 17.0 0.0 12.34 185 79
000.19 3864 +4.2 49 40 0 10.22 15.7 0.0 11.81 185 81
000.41 3992 +6.7 76 50 0 12.38 15.4 0.0 11.87 185 81
000.61 4147 +9.2 99 70 0 13.51 15.4 0.0 11.39 185 82
000.81 4329 +11.9 101 80 0 14.61 14.2 0.0 11.05 185 81
001.00 4504 +12.8 101 80 0 15.08 13.9 0.0 11.06 185 84
001.20 4660 +13.3 101 90 0 14.86 13.4 0.0 11.18 185 84
001.42 4797 +13.5 102 90 0 14.86 13.0 0.0 11.33 185 84
001.61 4921 +13.5 100 90 0 14.70 12.8 0.0 11.14 185 88
001.81 5036 +13.6 101 90 0 14.70 12.5 0.0 10.81 185 86
002.02 5167 +13.8 100 90 0 14.47 12.4 0.0 10.73 185 90
002.20 5257 +14.0 102 90 0 14.59 12.2 0.0 10.76 185 90
002.41 5343 +14.1 101 90 0 14.60 11.9 0.0 10.67 185 91
002.61 5418 +14.5 102 90 0 14.64 11.6 0.0 10.55 185 91
002.81 5496 +14.6 101 90 0 14.54 11.7 0.0 10.48 185 95
003.00 5620 +14.8 102 90 0 14.69 10.9 0.0 10.46 185 95
003.20 5671 +15.1 100 90 0 14.62 10.6 0.0 10.33 185 97
003.41 5716 +15.0 100 90 0 14.72 10.6 0.0 10.17 185 99
003.61 5744 +14.7 100 90 1 14.31 10.8 0.0 10.26 187 79
003.81 5823 +14.5 100 90 1 14.32 1.0 0.0 10.52 185 100
004.02 5768 +14.8 100 90 1 14.15 1.0 0.0 10.93 187 102
004.20 5758 +14.7 66 70 1 14.38 1.0 0.0 10.87 187 102

[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][TPS][LOD][KN][IPWm][IGN][FMVL][WBO2][CTf][ATf]
000.00 3874 +1.7 102 20 0 8.46 19.9 0.0 12.21 185 82
000.53 4042 +4.1 102 40 0 10.36 15.5 0.0 11.87 185 84
000.63 4324 +11.4 101 80 0 14.82 14.4 0.0 11.92 185 86
000.81 4580 +12.5 100 80 0 14.91 13.7 0.0 11.62 185 88
001.02 4787 +13.1 102 80 0 14.89 13.1 0.0 11.62 183 86
001.22 4954 +13.5 100 90 0 14.68 12.7 0.0 11.84 185 90
001.42 5122 +13.6 102 90 0 14.48 12.4 0.0 11.92 183 88
001.61 5251 +13.8 100 90 0 14.51 12.2 0.0 11.81 185 91
001.81 5358 +13.9 102 90 0 14.54 12.0 0.0 11.80 183 91
002.02 5489 +14.1 100 90 0 14.63 11.3 0.0 11.62 185 95
002.22 5622 +14.6 100 90 0 14.69 10.9 0.0 11.49 185 97
002.41 5715 +14.6 100 90 0 14.45 10.8 0.0 11.28 185 99
002.61 5804 +14.8 100 90 0 14.60 10.5 0.0 11.12 185 99
002.81 5897 +15.1 100 100 0 14.61 10.5 0.0 11.11 185 100
003.02 5985 +15.0 100 90 0 14.34 10.4 0.0 11.06 185 100
003.22 6087 +14.8 100 90 0 14.45 10.8 0.0 11.05 185 104
003.42 6156 +14.6 100 90 0 14.15 10.9 0.0 11.11 185 104
003.61 6249 +14.7 100 90 0 14.17 10.9 0.0 11.12 185 106
003.81 6365 +14.7 100 90 0 13.97 10.9 0.0 11.11 185 108
004.02 6434 +14.8 99 90 1 14.17 10.9 0.0 11.12 185 108
004.22 6532 +14.5 69 90 0 14.09 10.9 0.0 11.08 185 109

marra23

iTrader: (8)

that second run AFR not that bad, my timing set lowest 13 @ peak torque and slowly advancing to 16 to readline. 12psi

i did however had a few issues with leaks and car not revving(from5500rpm) freely to red line in the past with some knock but after gaskets and less gap on plugs problems fixed....while researching my probs it seemed like quite a few guys have had isuse with utec and spark blow out.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (2)

Matt, how come in the first log, as it starts knocking or showing 1 count. Timing drops to 1 degree? is that right.

While I was having issues, one of my logs showed the same thing, there was alot of misfire, and it showed the timing drop to 1 then spike back up.

You might be having the same issue I had, which changing the plugs seem to have solved it, along with having the coils at 16v.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (8)

I did a few adjustments and made some runs at lunch today. Ive since asjusted the IPW and adding a bit more timing, testing on the way home tonight. Once AFR and timing are good if its still doing it I'll for sure do the boost-a-spark.

This is a 2-3 pull, good timing, good AFR, solid pull, on WG springs
[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][TPS][LOD][KN][IPWm][IGN][FMVL][WBO2][CTf][ATf]
000.00 4135 +4.5 40 40 0 10.39 16.0 0.0 13.59 169 95
000.17 4317 +6.8 96 50 0 12.40 17.8 0.0 12.83 167 93
000.41 4557 +7.8 100 50 0 12.75 17.6 0.0 11.73 169 97
000.59 4825 +7.5 102 50 0 12.71 17.0 0.0 11.43 167 93
000.80 5080 +7.5 100 50 0 12.28 16.9 0.0 11.45 169 95
000.98 5294 +7.6 101 50 0 12.15 17.1 0.0 11.30 169 95
001.19 5508 +7.5 100 50 0 12.09 17.6 0.0 11.33 169 97
001.39 5743 +7.3 100 50 0 11.91 17.9 0.0 11.39 169 95
001.59 5946 +7.3 99 50 0 11.77 17.9 0.0 11.48 169 97
001.78 6167 +7.3 100 50 0 11.64 17.9 0.0 11.68 169 97
001.98 6383 +7.3 99 40 0 11.39 18.0 0.0 11.76 169 97
002.19 6504 +3.5 100 20 0 9.23 18.0 0.0 11.52 169 99
002.39 6396 -5.8 101 10 0 7.26 42.5 0.0 11.14 169 100
002.59 5687 -5.5 101 0 0 3.06 19.5 0.0 11.71 162 99
002.80 5112 -4.7 101 0 0 3.57 32.7 0.0 11.92 169 99
002.98 4857 -2.2 99 0 0 5.09 30.5 0.0 12.71 169 97
003.20 4800 +1.6 84 20 0 6.98 18.5 0.0 14.83 171 99
003.39 4923 +6.3 85 50 0 12.21 16.6 0.0 14.74 171 99
003.59 5142 +7.8 101 50 0 12.39 16.8 0.0 13.12 169 99
003.80 5271 +7.5 100 50 0 11.93 16.8 0.0 11.81 171 102
003.98 5344 +7.5 102 50 0 11.88 16.8 0.0 11.52 169 100
004.19 5395 +7.6 100 50 0 11.92 16.9 0.0 11.45 171 104
004.39 5475 +7.5 102 50 0 11.88 17.2 0.0 11.43 169 100
004.59 5554 +7.5 100 50 0 11.95 17.2 0.0 11.37 172 104
004.78 5646 +7.6 100 50 0 11.73 17.5 0.0 11.33 172 104
004.98 5726 +7.5 100 50 0 11.69 17.6 0.0 11.37 172 104
005.19 5822 +7.5 100 50 0 11.67 17.8 0.0 11.43 172 106
005.39 5919 +7.4 100 50 0 11.39 17.9 0.0 11.43 172 106
005.59 6008 +7.3 100 50 0 11.48 17.9 0.0 11.52 172 108
005.80 6088 +7.3 100 50 0 11.45 17.9 0.0 11.62 172 108
005.98 6182 +7.4 100 50 0 11.34 17.9 0.0 11.67 174 108
006.19 6259 +7.3 100 50 0 11.37 17.9 0.0 11.67 172 108
006.39 6336 +7.3 98 50 0 11.40 17.9 0.0 11.67 172 109

This is at 14.7 with the dump closed
[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][TPS][LOD][KN][IPWm][IGN][FMVL][WBO2][CTf][ATf]
000.00 4143 +3.0 100 30 0 9.88 16.0 0.0 12.33 176 95
000.19 4257 +6.1 102 50 0 11.87 17.2 0.0 12.11 174 95
000.41 4385 +9.1 100 70 0 12.75 16.2 0.0 11.89 176 97
000.61 4528 +11.8 101 80 0 14.20 14.4 0.0 11.49 174 95
000.80 4702 +12.7 100 80 0 14.55 13.5 0.0 11.45 176 97
000.98 4845 +13.3 102 90 0 14.41 13.0 0.0 11.49 174 97
001.19 5008 +13.6 101 90 0 14.33 12.5 0.0 11.42 174 97
001.39 5103 +13.9 101 90 0 14.39 12.2 0.0 11.24 174 99
001.59 5210 +14.0 101 90 0 14.30 12.2 0.0 11.12 174 97
001.78 5324 +14.0 101 90 0 14.22 12.1 0.0 11.06 174 100
001.98 5463 +13.9 102 90 0 14.17 11.9 0.0 11.01 174 99
002.19 5535 +14.3 100 90 0 14.27 11.6 0.0 10.95 174 100
002.39 5668 +14.5 101 90 0 13.93 11.1 0.0 10.87 174 100
002.59 5689 +14.5 100 90 0 14.15 11.0 0.0 10.67 176 104
002.78 5757 +14.6 104 90 0 14.11 11.0 0.0 10.59 176 106
002.98 5821 +14.7 100 90 0 14.31 11.0 0.0 10.55 176 108
003.19 5876 +14.3 100 90 1 13.89 11.0 0.0 10.64 176 108
003.39 5909 +14.8 100 90 1 13.99 11.0 0.0 10.59 176 109
003.59 5965 +14.6 100 90 2 13.78 11.0 0.0 10.46 176 109
003.78 5990 +14.6 101 90 1 13.70 11.0 0.0 10.67 176 111

This is with the dump open
[TSMP][RPM][PSIG][TPS][LOD][KN][IPWm][IGN][FMVL][WBO2][CTf][ATf]
000.00 4014 +3.2 99 30 0 9.69 16.0 0.0 14.05 174 91
000.19 4180 +6.4 101 50 0 12.34 17.7 0.0 13.28 174 93
000.42 4400 +10.6 102 80 0 13.85 14.7 0.0 12.27 174 95
000.61 4632 +12.7 101 80 0 14.69 13.7 0.0 11.98 174 95
000.81 4807 +13.3 100 90 0 14.58 13.0 0.0 12.27 176 97
001.00 4964 +13.9 101 90 0 14.65 12.4 0.0 12.27 174 97
001.20 5114 +14.1 99 90 0 14.57 12.0 0.0 12.06 174 99
001.41 5259 +14.5 101 90 0 14.42 12.0 0.0 12.06 174 97
001.61 5388 +14.5 99 90 0 14.54 11.8 0.0 12.05 174 99
001.81 5565 +14.7 101 90 0 14.38 11.4 0.0 11.92 174 99
002.02 5647 +14.7 100 90 0 14.26 11.0 0.0 11.76 176 102
002.20 5706 +14.8 99 90 0 14.24 11.0 0.0 11.61 176 104
002.41 5798 +14.9 99 90 0 14.32 11.0 0.0 11.53 176 106
002.61 5891 +14.9 100 90 0 14.14 11.0 0.0 11.52 176 106
002.81 5987 +14.7 98 90 0 14.07 11.0 0.0 11.53 176 108
003.02 6115 +14.5 98 90 1 13.89 11.0 0.0 11.56 176 109
003.20 6258 +14.6 98 90 0 13.58 11.0 0.0 11.56 176 111
003.41 6331 +14.3 98 90 0 13.72 11.0 0.0 11.61 176 113

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (8)

Good catch their. I have no idea whay it did that. Ive never seen it before. I do have my knock threshold set at 2, so it should the UTEC should not have pulled anything.