Forged Performance - My Story
04-16-2010, 11:28 AM
#41
I am glad we can finally clear the air on this. I think we are all getting really tired of these interelated posts. All of the recent forum excitment has revolved around this car. Doug and I had agreed to figure out a way to settle this privatly but since he took the initiative to publically post his complete story, I will respond.
Doug is leaving out some key points, and there quite a bit of misinformation that needs to be clarified
FACTS:
1) We never threatened a lawsuit against anyone that posts the truth about their experience with Forged. We have always defended ourselves vigorously against false statements, lies, exaggerations, etc.
2) We have always been willing to address any issue with a vehicle that has left our shop. We've been in this business and active with the community for 5 years, and we aren't going anywhere. As I've mentioned in the previous threads, we work on many hundreds of cars each year.
3) Doug decided to take his car to GTM unbeknowst to us, which is his right. Unfortunatly, GTM created a $20,000 repair order. Here is the estimate, and you guys can judge for yourselves. $5800 labor to R/R the ENTIRE turbo kit which is not needed. GTM charged Doug $2101.40 for a brand new turbo pair, instead of charging Doug for the .86AR housing which would have been about $500?? The ONLY difference between a stage I and stage II kit is the inside dimensions of the exhaust housing so there is no reason to purchase another complete turbocharger assembly. GTM charged Doug $2500 in just labor to replace the engine harness which is at most an 8-10 hr job....if you take your sweet time. These are just a couple of examples from the estimate below. Once another shop gets involved with my customers, obviously the other shop will conduct themselves in a manner that is self-serving. This is what happened here, and things escelated into the Forged vs. GTM battle that continues now.
4) The installation and figment issues are real. We aren't the only ones that have experienced this but of course no other shops wish to speak about this publicly or their GTM dealer status might be pulled. It's a very small world in the tuner business, and nobody wants to burn bridges.
Here is a picture of the GTM downpipes on a G35 TT we recently completed. Notice those darn brackets don't line up. So we'll be cutting them off and welding them in the correct spot, and eating the time and material since we can't charge this to the customer. This is an example of the reasons we sometimes steer customers towards other types of kits. We spend a lot of time massaging these kits to fix, calling for missing parts, wrong parts, and endless back and forth with GTM. The clearancing you see on Doug's piping is to clear the steering column and dump tubes.
5) Doug's harness was melted and discolored (still perfectly functional and repairable) not because of improper hardware as GTM stated on the work order. Instead, the exhaust leak was from a badly warped flange. We found this exhaust leak before Doug arrived, and spent several hours R/R this pipe and machining it as flat as possible. We used a smoke machine to recheck for leaks and observed none. GTM charged Doug $4700 for this repair (new OEM harness and labor)
Here is a pic of the warped flange. I notified Sam of this while the car was here, but never got a response back.
6) Now lets talk about the turbocharger situation. I have given purchase orders to Doug's attorney showing them we did in fact purchase two identical kits. We had the wrong part numbers on the PO but they were identical. One kit was for Doug's G37, and the other for Dave's G37. When it was brought to our attention that we may have received Stage I housing instead of Stage II housings, I checked Dave's engine since it was on the ground, and we did in fact have a Stage II housing on his car. I made the assumption that Doug's would also be stage II since we ordered identical PO's/kits. Now, we know Doug's car had Stage I while Dave's car had Stage II. This was careless on my part, and I take responsibility for it. There was no deception involved or intended at all. It's human nature to make assumptions, and that is what I did here.
7) With respect to any damage to Doug's car, of course we take 100% responsibility for that, and always have. And just for clarification, nobody hit or drove into Doug's car, it was basically a door ding and went unnoticed until Doug picked up his car and advised us of it. Either way, I agreed to pay for the repair which was about $400 at Hong's or $800 at the dealership body shop.
8) The person that work on Doug's car is no longer employed by us. We have put in place a strong QC routine that will insure these oversights of missing clips and such so this won't happen again. They are also communicating issues as they appear rather than trying to resolve them on their own. We have the strongest group of current technicians ever working for us. They all have 5 plus years of experience in both high performance and dealership environments, families, kids, and stable commitments to Forged. We also have Scott as our GM which provides an addition layer of oversight and follow up.
9) I have offered Doug a full refund on the labor performed at Forged, and have always been willing to work with him in a reasonable manner to get his car back up and running. Unfortunately, he hired a lawyer which in turn, meant that we now have a lawyer, so I can't really comment much more on this topic. We are well insured and capitalized and this distraction will not have ANY impact on our financial condition.
This will be my final comments on this matter, and I still hope we can reasonably resolve this with Doug, and put this behind us all.
Doug is leaving out some key points, and there quite a bit of misinformation that needs to be clarified
FACTS:
1) We never threatened a lawsuit against anyone that posts the truth about their experience with Forged. We have always defended ourselves vigorously against false statements, lies, exaggerations, etc.
2) We have always been willing to address any issue with a vehicle that has left our shop. We've been in this business and active with the community for 5 years, and we aren't going anywhere. As I've mentioned in the previous threads, we work on many hundreds of cars each year.
3) Doug decided to take his car to GTM unbeknowst to us, which is his right. Unfortunatly, GTM created a $20,000 repair order. Here is the estimate, and you guys can judge for yourselves. $5800 labor to R/R the ENTIRE turbo kit which is not needed. GTM charged Doug $2101.40 for a brand new turbo pair, instead of charging Doug for the .86AR housing which would have been about $500?? The ONLY difference between a stage I and stage II kit is the inside dimensions of the exhaust housing so there is no reason to purchase another complete turbocharger assembly. GTM charged Doug $2500 in just labor to replace the engine harness which is at most an 8-10 hr job....if you take your sweet time. These are just a couple of examples from the estimate below. Once another shop gets involved with my customers, obviously the other shop will conduct themselves in a manner that is self-serving. This is what happened here, and things escelated into the Forged vs. GTM battle that continues now.
4) The installation and figment issues are real. We aren't the only ones that have experienced this but of course no other shops wish to speak about this publicly or their GTM dealer status might be pulled. It's a very small world in the tuner business, and nobody wants to burn bridges.
Here is a picture of the GTM downpipes on a G35 TT we recently completed. Notice those darn brackets don't line up. So we'll be cutting them off and welding them in the correct spot, and eating the time and material since we can't charge this to the customer. This is an example of the reasons we sometimes steer customers towards other types of kits. We spend a lot of time massaging these kits to fix, calling for missing parts, wrong parts, and endless back and forth with GTM. The clearancing you see on Doug's piping is to clear the steering column and dump tubes.
5) Doug's harness was melted and discolored (still perfectly functional and repairable) not because of improper hardware as GTM stated on the work order. Instead, the exhaust leak was from a badly warped flange. We found this exhaust leak before Doug arrived, and spent several hours R/R this pipe and machining it as flat as possible. We used a smoke machine to recheck for leaks and observed none. GTM charged Doug $4700 for this repair (new OEM harness and labor)
Here is a pic of the warped flange. I notified Sam of this while the car was here, but never got a response back.
6) Now lets talk about the turbocharger situation. I have given purchase orders to Doug's attorney showing them we did in fact purchase two identical kits. We had the wrong part numbers on the PO but they were identical. One kit was for Doug's G37, and the other for Dave's G37. When it was brought to our attention that we may have received Stage I housing instead of Stage II housings, I checked Dave's engine since it was on the ground, and we did in fact have a Stage II housing on his car. I made the assumption that Doug's would also be stage II since we ordered identical PO's/kits. Now, we know Doug's car had Stage I while Dave's car had Stage II. This was careless on my part, and I take responsibility for it. There was no deception involved or intended at all. It's human nature to make assumptions, and that is what I did here.
7) With respect to any damage to Doug's car, of course we take 100% responsibility for that, and always have. And just for clarification, nobody hit or drove into Doug's car, it was basically a door ding and went unnoticed until Doug picked up his car and advised us of it. Either way, I agreed to pay for the repair which was about $400 at Hong's or $800 at the dealership body shop.
8) The person that work on Doug's car is no longer employed by us. We have put in place a strong QC routine that will insure these oversights of missing clips and such so this won't happen again. They are also communicating issues as they appear rather than trying to resolve them on their own. We have the strongest group of current technicians ever working for us. They all have 5 plus years of experience in both high performance and dealership environments, families, kids, and stable commitments to Forged. We also have Scott as our GM which provides an addition layer of oversight and follow up.
9) I have offered Doug a full refund on the labor performed at Forged, and have always been willing to work with him in a reasonable manner to get his car back up and running. Unfortunately, he hired a lawyer which in turn, meant that we now have a lawyer, so I can't really comment much more on this topic. We are well insured and capitalized and this distraction will not have ANY impact on our financial condition.
This will be my final comments on this matter, and I still hope we can reasonably resolve this with Doug, and put this behind us all.
Last edited by Sharif@Forged; 04-16-2010 at 11:45 AM.
04-16-2010, 11:45 AM
#42
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as i said...bad work was done, no excuses, and good to see remedy action being taken to positivily move forward, and gtm aint no saint either.... WHOLY SHlT! $$$$ rape...though there is nothign illegal about it though 
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 04-16-2010 at 11:48 AM.
04-16-2010, 11:52 AM
#45
I have no idea why you guys are bitching/complaining about the bill actually I know why because none of you are highly boosted or had to repair a car. Imho GTM has every right to charge what they charge. Its clearly laid out what hes paying for. Peoples bill are exactly the same from other shops listed here yet they don't post em up. If things are broken they aren't gonna get fixed for free. Lets be adults folks
Last edited by r0mey; 04-16-2010 at 11:59 AM.
04-16-2010, 11:56 AM
#46
for real man. my forged labor bills were about the same for two different incidents COMBINED. both involving yanking the motor and installing another motor and a TT kit along with all the supporting mods including a clutch install.
sucks bad for the OP and i feel for him. i hope he and forged can work something out and everyone can move on.
sucks bad for the OP and i feel for him. i hope he and forged can work something out and everyone can move on.
04-16-2010, 11:59 AM
#47
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If I was in Jones shoes right now I wouldn't care how much the labor costs. He knows he will get taken care of from Sam. I would focus on getting your money back from FP. You people that say a$$ raped...are you running a shop? Maybe it would be different if YOU were running a shop.
Last edited by Goo$e; 04-17-2010 at 07:56 PM.
04-16-2010, 12:07 PM
#48
I have no idea why you guys are bitching/complaining about the bill actually I know why because none of you are highly boosted or had to repair a car. Imho GTM has every right to charge what they charge. Its clearly laid out what hes paying for. Peoples bill are exactly the same from other shops listed here yet they don't post em up. If things are broken they aren't gonna get fixed for free. Lets be adults folks
04-16-2010, 12:07 PM
#49
I'm sorry to say but I dont find that surprising of ANY shop! I will say that i have never heard any bad things from FP before, but that doesn't exclude them..........
Shops are there to make money, and at times find themselves using whats left over, cut corners, etc......spare parts left from a previous customer, etc.....etc.......
Down time is their killer........if parts are ordered and not the right item comes in, they tend to swing or fling what they have in stock in order to make the deadlines and move on to the next paying customer............I have seen this from the best people before.....
That being said:
IF I WERE TO EVER HAVE A SHOP WORK ON MY CAR WHERE IM PAYING THOUSANDS TO INSTALL A VERY CRITICAL AND IN DEPTH INSTALL - I would be there every minute of every day watching, helping and ensuring everything gets done right!
I would take the time off of work, etc and ensure - WHY, because NO ONE on gods green earth cares more for your car than "YOU".....
-J
Shops are there to make money, and at times find themselves using whats left over, cut corners, etc......spare parts left from a previous customer, etc.....etc.......
Down time is their killer........if parts are ordered and not the right item comes in, they tend to swing or fling what they have in stock in order to make the deadlines and move on to the next paying customer............I have seen this from the best people before.....
That being said:
IF I WERE TO EVER HAVE A SHOP WORK ON MY CAR WHERE IM PAYING THOUSANDS TO INSTALL A VERY CRITICAL AND IN DEPTH INSTALL - I would be there every minute of every day watching, helping and ensuring everything gets done right!
I would take the time off of work, etc and ensure - WHY, because NO ONE on gods green earth cares more for your car than "YOU".....
-J
)Chris
04-16-2010, 12:17 PM
#50
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Wow, must say the work was still HORRIFIC. I mean QC or no QC a shop as reputable as FP shouldn't be doing that kind of a hack job. That's inexcusable.
As far as the GTM bill thas just monkey rape and anyone trying to defend them on that saying "they have the right to charge what they charge" is just pure bs and it seems that GTM might've known this lawsuit was coming and was simply trying to get some extra cash outta the situation. Poor OP got taken advantage of but I don't think it's all boo-hoo that it seems to be made out to be. 2 wrongs don't make a right... (although personally they make me feel better :P) but still that GTM bill is just ricoculous!
Geez, i was looking to take my car to FP also but im just terrified with this situation... Good learning experience for all though..
As far as the GTM bill thas just monkey rape and anyone trying to defend them on that saying "they have the right to charge what they charge" is just pure bs and it seems that GTM might've known this lawsuit was coming and was simply trying to get some extra cash outta the situation. Poor OP got taken advantage of but I don't think it's all boo-hoo that it seems to be made out to be. 2 wrongs don't make a right... (although personally they make me feel better :P) but still that GTM bill is just ricoculous!
Geez, i was looking to take my car to FP also but im just terrified with this situation... Good learning experience for all though..
04-16-2010, 12:18 PM
#51
Tuning is tuning. Installing hardware is different.
I had issues with my powerlab kit where it wouldn't fit with out making changes to my passenger side fender support. Rather then use the hammer o might 2000, I ended up notching out my fender just enough. Clearly it wasn't an issue where it was notched and my piping isn't beat to hell. If someone else did it who knows what they would have done.
My downpipe was one of those, no way in hell is this going to fit. I kept trying to make it fit and had no luck. I waked away for a day or two and came back and bam it fit.
If the person was pressed on time and wanted it done right then and there............
Hammer o might 2000 would make it happen.
I had issues with my powerlab kit where it wouldn't fit with out making changes to my passenger side fender support. Rather then use the hammer o might 2000, I ended up notching out my fender just enough. Clearly it wasn't an issue where it was notched and my piping isn't beat to hell. If someone else did it who knows what they would have done.
My downpipe was one of those, no way in hell is this going to fit. I kept trying to make it fit and had no luck. I waked away for a day or two and came back and bam it fit.
If the person was pressed on time and wanted it done right then and there............
Hammer o might 2000 would make it happen.
04-16-2010, 12:21 PM
#52
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Wow, must say the work was still HORRIFIC. I mean QC or no QC a shop as reputable as FP shouldn't be doing that kind of a hack job. That's inexcusable.
As far as the GTM bill thas just monkey rape and anyone trying to defend them on that saying "they have the right to charge what they charge" is just pure bs and it seems that GTM might've known this lawsuit was coming and was simply trying to get some extra cash outta the situation. Poor OP got taken advantage of but I don't think it's all boo-hoo that it seems to be made out to be. 2 wrongs don't make a right... (although personally they make me feel better :P) but still that GTM bill is just ricoculous!
Geez, i was looking to take my car to FP also but im just terrified with this situation... Good learning experience for all though..
As far as the GTM bill thas just monkey rape and anyone trying to defend them on that saying "they have the right to charge what they charge" is just pure bs and it seems that GTM might've known this lawsuit was coming and was simply trying to get some extra cash outta the situation. Poor OP got taken advantage of but I don't think it's all boo-hoo that it seems to be made out to be. 2 wrongs don't make a right... (although personally they make me feel better :P) but still that GTM bill is just ricoculous!
Geez, i was looking to take my car to FP also but im just terrified with this situation... Good learning experience for all though..
Bold 2: I don't believe you. Taking guesses doesn't count.
Last edited by Goo$e; 04-16-2010 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Taking guesses doesn't count.
04-16-2010, 12:30 PM
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i guess this explains the "Fitment issues" Forged said they have been having with GTM Products when i called about various TT kits. I was told that due to this issues they are no longer dealing with GTM. Based on this http://myg37.com/forums/engine-drive...rformance.html i believe it is the other way around. I was also told when i inquired about other TT kit options that Vortec and Stillen are GREAT options 
04-16-2010, 12:32 PM
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From that bill it just seemed pure rapage and i was simply stating what I thought was being done (honestly speaking thas the way I would've done it to make some cash and let there be no mistake cash is king so im sure GTM has a good head on their shoulders when it comes to making dollars).
Seriously speaking making a profit isnt a crime. But the way going about it can be. Maybe GTM knew a lawsuit was coming and jacked up the insane price? Charge of labor is like 2 of the GTM TT turnkey kits....
04-16-2010, 12:37 PM
#57
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From that bill it just seemed pure rapage and i was simply stating what I thought was being done (honestly speaking thas the way I would've done it to make some cash and let there be no mistake cash is king so im sure GTM has a good head on their shoulders when it comes to making dollars).
Seriously speaking making a profit isnt a crime. But the way going about it can be. Maybe GTM knew a lawsuit was coming and jacked up the insane price? Charge of labor is like 2 of the GTM TT turnkey kits....
Seriously speaking making a profit isnt a crime. But the way going about it can be. Maybe GTM knew a lawsuit was coming and jacked up the insane price? Charge of labor is like 2 of the GTM TT turnkey kits....
04-16-2010, 12:37 PM
#58
They did have to remove old items document it, fix/replace OEM parts as with replacing and reinstalling messed up After market parts.
The labor doesn't really surprise me. Worst thing anyone can do is go into a job and redo it. It's not straight forward and some of the stuff you run into can make you wonder....
The labor doesn't really surprise me. Worst thing anyone can do is go into a job and redo it. It's not straight forward and some of the stuff you run into can make you wonder....
