Forged Performance - My Story
04-16-2010, 12:46 PM
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04-16-2010, 12:56 PM
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I am glad we can finally clear the air on this. I think we are all getting really tired of these interelated posts. All of the recent forum excitment has revolved around this car. Doug and I had agreed to figure out a way to settle this privatly but since he took the initiative to publically post his complete story, I will respond.
Doug is leaving out some key points, and there quite a bit of misinformation that needs to be clarified
FACTS:
1) We never threatened a lawsuit against anyone that posts the truth about their experience with Forged. We have always defended ourselves vigorously against false statements, lies, exaggerations, etc.
2) We have always been willing to address any issue with a vehicle that has left our shop. We've been in this business and active with the community for 5 years, and we aren't going anywhere. As I've mentioned in the previous threads, we work on many hundreds of cars each year.
3) Doug decided to take his car to GTM unbeknowst to us, which is his right. Unfortunatly, GTM created a $20,000 repair order. Here is the estimate, and you guys can judge for yourselves. $5800 labor to R/R the ENTIRE turbo kit which is not needed. GTM charged Doug $2101.40 for a brand new turbo pair, instead of charging Doug for the .86AR housing which would have been about $500?? The ONLY difference between a stage I and stage II kit is the inside dimensions of the exhaust housing so there is no reason to purchase another complete turbocharger assembly. GTM charged Doug $2500 in just labor to replace the engine harness which is at most an 8-10 hr job....if you take your sweet time. These are just a couple of examples from the estimate below. Once another shop gets involved with my customers, obviously the other shop will conduct themselves in a manner that is self-serving. This is what happened here, and things escelated into the Forged vs. GTM battle that continues now.
4) The installation and figment issues are real. We aren't the only ones that have experienced this but of course no other shops wish to speak about this publicly or their GTM dealer status might be pulled. It's a very small world in the tuner business, and nobody wants to burn bridges.
Here is a picture of the GTM downpipes on a G35 TT we recently completed. Notice those darn brackets don't line up. So we'll be cutting them off and welding them in the correct spot, and eating the time and material since we can't charge this to the customer. This is an example of the reasons we sometimes steer customers towards other types of kits. We spend a lot of time massaging these kits to fix, calling for missing parts, wrong parts, and endless back and forth with GTM. The clearancing you see on Doug's piping is to clear the steering column and dump tubes.
5) Doug's harness was melted and discolored (still perfectly functional and repairable) not because of improper hardware as GTM stated on the work order. Instead, the exhaust leak was from a badly warped flange. We found this exhaust leak before Doug arrived, and spent several hours R/R this pipe and machining it as flat as possible. We used a smoke machine to recheck for leaks and observed none. GTM charged Doug $4700 for this repair (new OEM harness and labor)
Here is a pic of the warped flange. I notified Sam of this while the car was here, but never got a response back.
6) Now lets talk about the turbocharger situation. I have given purchase orders to Doug's attorney showing them we did in fact purchase two identical kits. We had the wrong part numbers on the PO but they were identical. One kit was for Doug's G37, and the other for Dave's G37. When it was brought to our attention that we may have received Stage I housing instead of Stage II housings, I checked Dave's engine since it was on the ground, and we did in fact have a Stage II housing on his car. I made the assumption that Doug's would also be stage II since we ordered identical PO's/kits. Now, we know Doug's car had Stage I while Dave's car had Stage II. This was careless on my part, and I take responsibility for it. There was no deception involved or intended at all. It's human nature to make assumptions, and that is what I did here.
7) With respect to any damage to Doug's car, of course we take 100% responsibility for that, and always have. And just for clarification, nobody hit or drove into Doug's car, it was basically a door ding and went unnoticed until Doug picked up his car and advised us of it. Either way, I agreed to pay for the repair which was about $400 at Hong's or $800 at the dealership body shop.
8) The person that work on Doug's car is no longer employed by us. We have put in place a strong QC routine that will insure these oversights of missing clips and such so this won't happen again. They are also communicating issues as they appear rather than trying to resolve them on their own. We have the strongest group of current technicians ever working for us. They all have 5 plus years of experience in both high performance and dealership environments, families, kids, and stable commitments to Forged. We also have Scott as our GM which provides an addition layer of oversight and follow up.
9) I have offered Doug a full refund on the labor performed at Forged, and have always been willing to work with him in a reasonable manner to get his car back up and running. Unfortunately, he hired a lawyer which in turn, meant that we now have a lawyer, so I can't really comment much more on this topic. We are well insured and capitalized and this distraction will not have ANY impact on our financial condition.
This will be my final comments on this matter, and I still hope we can reasonably resolve this with Doug, and put this behind us all.
Doug is leaving out some key points, and there quite a bit of misinformation that needs to be clarified
FACTS:
1) We never threatened a lawsuit against anyone that posts the truth about their experience with Forged. We have always defended ourselves vigorously against false statements, lies, exaggerations, etc.
2) We have always been willing to address any issue with a vehicle that has left our shop. We've been in this business and active with the community for 5 years, and we aren't going anywhere. As I've mentioned in the previous threads, we work on many hundreds of cars each year.
3) Doug decided to take his car to GTM unbeknowst to us, which is his right. Unfortunatly, GTM created a $20,000 repair order. Here is the estimate, and you guys can judge for yourselves. $5800 labor to R/R the ENTIRE turbo kit which is not needed. GTM charged Doug $2101.40 for a brand new turbo pair, instead of charging Doug for the .86AR housing which would have been about $500?? The ONLY difference between a stage I and stage II kit is the inside dimensions of the exhaust housing so there is no reason to purchase another complete turbocharger assembly. GTM charged Doug $2500 in just labor to replace the engine harness which is at most an 8-10 hr job....if you take your sweet time. These are just a couple of examples from the estimate below. Once another shop gets involved with my customers, obviously the other shop will conduct themselves in a manner that is self-serving. This is what happened here, and things escelated into the Forged vs. GTM battle that continues now.
4) The installation and figment issues are real. We aren't the only ones that have experienced this but of course no other shops wish to speak about this publicly or their GTM dealer status might be pulled. It's a very small world in the tuner business, and nobody wants to burn bridges.
Here is a picture of the GTM downpipes on a G35 TT we recently completed. Notice those darn brackets don't line up. So we'll be cutting them off and welding them in the correct spot, and eating the time and material since we can't charge this to the customer. This is an example of the reasons we sometimes steer customers towards other types of kits. We spend a lot of time massaging these kits to fix, calling for missing parts, wrong parts, and endless back and forth with GTM. The clearancing you see on Doug's piping is to clear the steering column and dump tubes.
5) Doug's harness was melted and discolored (still perfectly functional and repairable) not because of improper hardware as GTM stated on the work order. Instead, the exhaust leak was from a badly warped flange. We found this exhaust leak before Doug arrived, and spent several hours R/R this pipe and machining it as flat as possible. We used a smoke machine to recheck for leaks and observed none. GTM charged Doug $4700 for this repair (new OEM harness and labor)
Here is a pic of the warped flange. I notified Sam of this while the car was here, but never got a response back.
6) Now lets talk about the turbocharger situation. I have given purchase orders to Doug's attorney showing them we did in fact purchase two identical kits. We had the wrong part numbers on the PO but they were identical. One kit was for Doug's G37, and the other for Dave's G37. When it was brought to our attention that we may have received Stage I housing instead of Stage II housings, I checked Dave's engine since it was on the ground, and we did in fact have a Stage II housing on his car. I made the assumption that Doug's would also be stage II since we ordered identical PO's/kits. Now, we know Doug's car had Stage I while Dave's car had Stage II. This was careless on my part, and I take responsibility for it. There was no deception involved or intended at all. It's human nature to make assumptions, and that is what I did here.
7) With respect to any damage to Doug's car, of course we take 100% responsibility for that, and always have. And just for clarification, nobody hit or drove into Doug's car, it was basically a door ding and went unnoticed until Doug picked up his car and advised us of it. Either way, I agreed to pay for the repair which was about $400 at Hong's or $800 at the dealership body shop.
8) The person that work on Doug's car is no longer employed by us. We have put in place a strong QC routine that will insure these oversights of missing clips and such so this won't happen again. They are also communicating issues as they appear rather than trying to resolve them on their own. We have the strongest group of current technicians ever working for us. They all have 5 plus years of experience in both high performance and dealership environments, families, kids, and stable commitments to Forged. We also have Scott as our GM which provides an addition layer of oversight and follow up.
9) I have offered Doug a full refund on the labor performed at Forged, and have always been willing to work with him in a reasonable manner to get his car back up and running. Unfortunately, he hired a lawyer which in turn, meant that we now have a lawyer, so I can't really comment much more on this topic. We are well insured and capitalized and this distraction will not have ANY impact on our financial condition.
This will be my final comments on this matter, and I still hope we can reasonably resolve this with Doug, and put this behind us all.
1) He and his attorney told mine they would sue if I posted.
2 & 3) As stated in my story, Sharif initially told me he would do nothing. Then he said we could compromise (50/50), and then he said he would get back with me...which he didn't. Sam got an estimate from Infiniti on replacing the harness, and they charge more hours than Sam is...it is a much bigger job than what Sharif is claiming. As most would know who have worked on cars, homes, anything, fixing the mess of someone else is almost always more work than starting from scratch. Not only that, the estimate is to fix EVERYTHING on my list (knocking noise, EVC controller install, hooking up the EVC and Knock Amp properly, literally everything on that list except for the body damage. He just didn't want to have to itemize everything out on that estimate. I think the labor is very fair, especially considering how much time he already has in it just taking the stuff apart.
4) Why have their been some backyard mechanics that were able to put these kits on without any problems? Also, why if they didn't fit, wouldn't Forged ask for new ones from GTM??? I would certainly have wanted that over bashed in pipes.
5) I complained of exhaust smell while their and on the drive home. Instead of being told this was normal, you would think Sharif would have wanted to check it out before sending me on an 8 hour drive in the car. Not only that, both sides were leaking...I could move the wastegate and dump tube back and forth by hand on the driver's side.
6) Like I said, my attorney and I had these POs a long time ago. What was going on in the 3 days it took to get the pictures of Dave's turbos....the engine was just sitting on the shop floor. Also, as stated in my story, Sharif emailed me in December saying "He had seen them with his own eyes" when referring to my turbos. Now that lawyers are involved....he was assuming. I have the email from his as proof of his statement.
7) Again, as already stated....when I contacted him with my estimate from an Infiniti dealer, he told me to get other ones because he didn't like the price.
8) How many times are we going to hear that?
9) Whatever....I feel I was the most patient client ever..from the original install (which Sharif told me all the time)....to waiting on some sort of resolution. Sharif certainly wasn't making any efforts the past few months....not until being contacted by my attorney. And why is it Sharif feels the need to point out he will be fine financially....it seems like that is all he cares about.
04-16-2010, 01:01 PM
#68
Well i sell crack rocks on the corner and pay no taxes to make a profit. Is that a crime?
From that bill it just seemed pure rapage and i was simply stating what I thought was being done (honestly speaking thas the way I would've done it to make some cash and let there be no mistake cash is king so im sure GTM has a good head on their shoulders when it comes to making dollars).
Seriously speaking making a profit isnt a crime. But the way going about it can be. Maybe GTM knew a lawsuit was coming and jacked up the insane price? Charge of labor is like 2 of the GTM TT turnkey kits....
From that bill it just seemed pure rapage and i was simply stating what I thought was being done (honestly speaking thas the way I would've done it to make some cash and let there be no mistake cash is king so im sure GTM has a good head on their shoulders when it comes to making dollars).
Seriously speaking making a profit isnt a crime. But the way going about it can be. Maybe GTM knew a lawsuit was coming and jacked up the insane price? Charge of labor is like 2 of the GTM TT turnkey kits....
04-16-2010, 01:03 PM
#70
I would have left that out if I were you. You never want to tell the other side just how secure your finances are. Lawyers will have fun with that....filing numerous motions, performaning depositions, etc.....all in an effort to force your attorney to bill you more hours......... law is a dirty game.
04-16-2010, 01:05 PM
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So since you know so much. What do you have done to your car to know that the prices are insane? And who did your work? I remember people from Florida saying omg those prices are insane because they had a local shop who undersold/undercut everyone now that shop isnt around. So please tell me what you have done since you feel the need to comment on what is insanely price.
04-16-2010, 01:09 PM
#72
My car's only got bolt-ons but my turbo kit arrived last night which i'll have a buddy install. I know bout prices though and thats outrageous. Although OP just cleared up what it was for which makes a little more sense.. You'd have to be ignorant to not say that the price was steep. Just look at some of the comments on this thread. Im not the only one to say the price is crazy. Im fairly new to the vq world but not to money and cars. That's just craziness.
My point you don't know anything about how much modding a built 350z cost. Thats like telling a Lambo owner OMG you paid 2000 for you oil change youre crazy and you personally drive a ford escort. When you get out of your "ford escort" and start driving a "fast" car lemme know then you can comment on what is insanely priced or rappage. Its people like you who are misinformed that drag down the quality of the forum.
04-16-2010, 01:11 PM
#74
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I currently have my car there now being worked on and I was told it will take a couple weeks to get it done when I dropped my car off a week ago. When it's completed I'll make sure to inform of my experience and how well the build is. I'm sure he doesn't want something like this to happen honestly because no one wants to do anything to damage their rep. It's bad for business. I'm sure he has taken the appropriate action already and has moved on with conducting business. When my G is completed with the SC,water/meth, and oil cooler (to name a couple of the large mods) I'll be on here to inform....
04-16-2010, 01:13 PM
#75
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My point you don't know anything about how much modding a built 350z cost. Thats like telling a Lambo owner OMG you paid 2000 for you oil change youre crazy and you personally drive a ford escort. When you get out of your "ford escort" and start driving a "fast" car lemme know then you can comment on what is insanely priced or rappage. Its people like you who are misinformed that drag down the quality of the forum.
Im on page 2 lol
04-16-2010, 01:17 PM
#77
I would have left that out if I were you. You never want to tell the other side just how secure your finances are. Lawyers will have fun with that....filing numerous motions, performaning depositions, etc.....all in an effort to force your attorney to bill you more hours......... law is a dirty game.
https://my350z.com/forum/8303130-post6.html
04-16-2010, 01:29 PM
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My point you don't know anything about how much modding a built 350z cost. Thats like telling a Lambo owner OMG you paid 2000 for you oil change youre crazy and you personally drive a ford escort. When you get out of your "ford escort" and start driving a "fast" car lemme know then you can comment on what is insanely priced or rappage. Its people like you who are misinformed that drag down the quality of the forum.
I've done plenty of research and read others paid for their builds and im still gonna say what he charged was ridiculous. The information I received was from this forum so if its dragging down the quality then start with the source.