diabolical laughter....

I told my wife I feel like an evil genius...

[she looked at me as if i'm an evil idiot(par for course!)]


soooooo, boooooost! its fun!


test drove the evil beastie


still some very slight oil weepage from oil tank fittings but MUCH less than prior (it was running out as fast as I was filling it) - had to drill a hole in the top of my tank - there was no way for the air to escape when filling it, it stopped filling at ~ 1 quart, tapped the hole after and put a bolt in it.

going to redo the oil tank with a piece of 3" round stainless pipe and buy some actually weldable connection bungs - have to make a fuel surge tank anyway so might as well make both


I had just bought some piping joiners at home depot for this one and apparently that material is essentially unweldable

all I've done is make such a mound of weld around the pieces that it mostly sealed it - I ended up cutting the prior leaking one off and starting over and it was ~untouched under the weld

oil pressure gauge working fine ~45# the whole time - can set high / low pressure alarms which flash a light if triggered

oil temp gauge never started registering (min value is 100) after 15 miles test drive, intake air temp stayed at 78 - 80 the whole time (was higher than that before the turbo) engine temp stayed normal at 190

twice left a small spyhunter type smoke cloud ---> oil tank changes


soooo booooost!!

I have the blow off valve and the wastegate set to the lowest boost settings - with anything over ~1/4 throttle the wastegate opened right up dumping the boost build up (and being very noisy) as I get it tuned I'll set that level higher

the crunched numbers for 2 quick wide open runs in 1st/2nd (which is the wrong gears for getting peak hp)

very optimistic scangauge calculated crank HP - I know the scangauge numbers run high but I think that the improvement % should be ~ accurate

when
first got...................after other mods ......................today's 2 runs
scangauge............. and remapping ecu.................minimum boost
310.....................................360................. ..................452, 460

original..............................prior................. ....................today
advertised ponies..............calculated ponies...............calculated ponies

287..................................... 330...................................423 !

rear wheel HP
[average] early 350zs.................calculated................todays calculated

240......................................276................ ....................353...<-- 360 to 400 rwhp is my ultimate goal so a great start!

once it's all tuned I'll take it to a dyno and see what it really is (benchracing numbers are more fun as they are usually quite a bit higher)

- I have an itouch app that uses the g sensors to calculate hp also... I'll try that to but it's a bit distracting from driving


the accessport did show the air fuel ratio leaning out as revs >5000 - lowest seen was 10.1 but mostly stayed 13 to 12 to 11 as rpms went up
--so I'll have to figure out my new fuel pump and regulator in the next weeks

also the oil pump is a bit noisy - it's on rubber isolation mountings which I probably over tightened - didn't ever feel like they got tight at all but....

got an exhaust connector that sticks out a bit and vibrates against the intake tube annoyingly when engine braking / decelerating - will make a couple of brackets to hold that tight

play with bov and wastegate settings

tune ecu with comp

more maniacal laughter.....

it's alive ....


I made a turbo system!!

go me!!

 

vids or it didnt happen..



JK
Thats awesome, glad to see you got it working.

 

Congrats!!! Bring me back memories when I did mine, its a great feeling, specially being the 1st turbo car I ever drive lol.

 

hmm, depending on how long you drove it i would check the oil temp gauge to make sure it's working. 4 qts of oil running through a turbo should'nt take too long to get over 100*

what fuel system are you running? I don't remember you listing a return fuel system on your build. If you aren't using a return system then you won't need a surge tank and really with a single walbro you wo'nt need a surge tank either. you might be wasting time and energy on that.

good job on getting it running.

 

Extended the oiltank brackets down ~2 inches and seems to be just fine there for drainage.

Still have annoying oil pump drone noise - mostly noticible at idle, like a small leafblower is running behind the car

thinking of wiring the pump to have reduced voltage level for regular driving & run at 12v for track days.

will put 2nd spring back in wastegate sat. and start building some measurable boost

measured oiltemp after 45 minute drive home today - turbo housing was 300 degrees, oil out connection 145, oil line (which is pretty long - acts like small cooler?) was 98 degrees at inlet and tank was 85 (~70 degrees outside temp) so gauge starts at 100 degrees

some questions

anyone measure their turbo temp (underhood or wherever)??

when hooking up boost gauge i blew into it and it read about 2-3psi - that seem right to anyone? - i've yet to see boost on the gauge except when shifting at 5000+ rpm where it then jumps around to ~7psi - as mentioned waste gate opens at present at 2500 rpm

havent ran the bov or the wastegate hoses yet so that might help

also easiest way to deal with pcv system? catchcan?

is anyone using accesstuner race software for accessport out there
- don't want to mess with my ecu maps too randomly - sadly the scangauge and the accessport don't want to both work at the same time - i have a ecu (obd port) splitter but for more complicated things it disconnects the accessport so me watching my afr and ait at the same time isn't possible

thanks to all input!

476max calculated crank hp today on my highly optimistic scangauge
(hoping that equals ~ 350rwhp or so??)

 

You got strong lungs, I am only able to produce 1.5psi by blowing into the gauge lol, but yea thats fine. What do you mean you have to run hoses for the BOV and WG? You dont have them hooked up at all?

For pcv, the simplest thing is to just have vented crankcase, but then your car is going to stink. You can vent one port of the valve cover (the port that supposed to go to the intake before TB) put a filter there, then put a check valve between pcv and intake manifold, so when you build boost it dosnt go into the valvecovers, and you can put a catchcan in that same line as well.

One thing you probably havent noticed yet, if you havent wrapped your exhaust piping from engine to the back, your first few WOT runs are going to feel weak, after that is when you'll notice turbo spool alot better. Once you wrap its going to be alot more responsive and also spool up quicker from the 1st time you step on it.

 

Good - thought the boost gauge was broken

no - havent had time to run the vacuum lines to either bov or wastegate but as the wastegate is set so low i wasn't worried - will do it with w/g tommorrow

thanks on pcv ideas, will get the books back out to.

not too worried on heat wrapping yet - i really only need it to run really well for long days at sebring - everything stays really hot on those days!
[and that also keep me from getting in too much trouble on the road and i figure a day there costs ~ same as a speeding tix and the insurance rates don't go up]

tossing my fuel plans out for critique too

run stock pump to surge tank / have a inline walbro to run from surge to a regulator to run higher pressure on the stock injectors - should get me to 400whp? - stock fpr is with the pump in the tank and would just control line to surgetank right? no other pressure sensors up on the injector rail?

plan on 2 ecu maps - dd map that is economy up to 75% throttle than mild excitement after that

performance map that's as wild as the car will go limiting to ~400 whp
[that will let me mostly let me play well with the gt3s and zr1s on track day - just don't want to get passed like i'm in prius!]

 

I didnt read on which WG you had exactly but when you dont have them connected(vac/boost line), they wont open at all. Meaning, you should be careful you dont suddenly go into full boost since your WG is not getting any boost reference, it wont even open to spring pressure, it NEEDS the vac/boost line.

 

was going by sudden increase in exhaust noise at 2500 rpm - i think i'm generating much more noise than boost at this point - have been trying to keep my wot runs to minimum until i get it tuned but it's sooo tempting...

better lucky than smart! will hook em up sat.


thanks!

 

I'm really surprised you didnt pop your motor with no wastegate line.

Your turbo should have run wide open at as much boost as it could. Its actually a little concerning that it didnt even move your gauge. You shoulda saw at least 20psi, if you rev'd past 5000 rpms.

 

less you have a crazy boost leak I'm betting that motor has been hurt already and in a few month there will be a motor swap or headgasket thread. Please prove mem wrong cause popping a motor sucks but no boost source+stock injectors+stock pump = new motor

 

you're not going to get 400whp on stock injectors. they are 380cc injectors so they won't push up that high.

Stock fuel system will go that high with a boost reference FPR. You can pull about 400hp out of a walbro and FPR increase on some 440cc injectors but not stock ones.

also, like stated from other people, wastegate won't open without boost reference....not sure how you thought not hooking up the blow off or the wastegate would be a good idea.

 

waste gate definetly opening at 2500 rpm full no muffler exhaust noise- very hard to miss - i took a spring out of the w/g / can open it with moderate finger pressure because i didn't want to overboost when i was testing the system

when i start the car even the automatic reving opens the wastegate...

i know the wastegate is opening because it's a straight run to my second exh tip and it's LOUD - am granny shifting under 2k to get out of my neighbourhood in the early am so i don't get shot at...

can hear some turbine spooling at 5k but am at minimal boost - gauge moves if i blow in it but not yet under boost because it's running so low...

[not that there won't be a future wrecked engine entry here but not from this]

re fuel injectors - was just looking at the math tonite
(while watching new bbc sherlock holmes -> v. good)

press new=press old (flow new/flow old)^2

or

flow new=flow old sqrroot(press new/press old)

flow new=380 sqr(70/44)=480cc/min at 70psi - which should be more than enough? - was thinking the stocks were 340s - had jotted that number down from somewhere on my scratchpad before so at 380 even better!

and am stealing the inline pump / surge tank idea right out of a one of my source books

thanks for all input! keep it coming, i would much rather correct my new knowledge (or lack of) than rebuild the engine when it could have been avoided

more lack of knowledge - i know that ball bearing turbos have a flow restrictor hole for oil supply -do the journal bearing need any sort of restrictor too - i ask because i have a very small looking flow oil on the oil intake connector and want reassurance that this is normal or am i running a ball bearing restictor which might be the cause of all the oil pump noise running at near 'dead head' if thats the right plumbing term

and for future reference - per reading nearly all this f/i section (and seeing that i'm barely scratching the surface of what's been done) it seems that connecting rods are the main engine failure bits - so going with my mantra - cheap cheap cheap what other bits should i plan on replacing on a minimalist build to keep engine safe in the <500whp range - looking for best engine security / buck while having to open it up to change the connecting rods anyway? $450 for the eagles rods for my engine security is worth it to me

i had alfa's gtv6 (a string of 3 of them) for 14 years prior to this and sadly am now well versed at engine and transmission rebuilds (try taking one of them to the shop - big $$$ to fix relatively cheap cars (then)) i learned diy v. quickly - the transmission was in the back and the prop (drive) shaft spun at engine speed - they went through 2nd gear synchros every year... ( drop the tranny swap the 2nd for the 3rd gear synchro, replace and away ya go)

nostalgia made me scan some pics (circa 1990 (san diego naval base in the background)



alfa's on a good day ( had the red one first - at about 130k miles in this pic / bought the silver one non-running after prior owner spent ~2000 on engine and i had it running within the week- the rebuilder had spark plug wires in wrong order and it kept back firing and blowing the intake off with the small occasional fire so she sold it)) kept that one for 10 of the 14 years retired her at 175k miles when she tossed the 3rd timing belt (bent valves)



an alfa in its normal state of repose - you might not hear it but top gear guys frequently rag on how reliable alfas are - rely on them not to start!

this was after attemping my 5th crossing san diego to connecticut in an alfa - the a/c bolt worked loose, rubbed a hole in oil filter and peed all the oil out onto the highway (interstate 40?) through amirillo texas - walked ~ 5miles to auto parts store got oil / filter some nice old guy gave me a lift back to car refilled it and limped it home 1600+ miles with an amazing rod knock to CT - each mile saying - no way it's going to make it....i replaced the crank bearings [ignoring the scoring because they qouted~1000 to reweld then regrind them] figured it had went 1600 miles without ANY bearings so should be okay with them and never had to change them again..

thought they were sporty with all of 160 hp, could go 130mph and get 35mpg
& one of the earlier cars to have more hp then cubic inches


& because the red one felt left out of the blown engine photoshoot...
(broken timing belt / bent valves)


anyway -measurable boost on order for tommorrow!

 

guess we missed the point you pulled the springs...

a wastegate with no springs wont build any boost.

Hopefully when every thing is properly assembled it works

 

Yes journal bearing turbos also need restrictors (usually depending where your getting oil from and pressure). In my case I am getting oil from a sandwhich plate at the oil filter location, using a 4an line. I had to use a .052 orifice I believe, for my turbo, you can start with a later orifice and move your way down till your not getting smoke or oil on your charge piping, sometimes its also a good idea to call the turbo's manufacture and tell them your engine oil pressures and line your using, they'll be able to tell you what size orifice to go with. Also remember, if your turbo is not draining properly, it will have the same symptoms as if you had too much oil pressure, so dont start reducing the inlet size and ignore the drain. 70% of the time, its the drain, and in your setup there is a higher chance. I still had a little oiling issue with a .052 orifice, then I added a second scavange pump, no more problems ever since.

 

putting the 2nd spring back in



running the hoses



will make a bracket for mbc here, there's some handy bolt holes in the floor there, will have the oil temp gauge on other side (the hole for the car seat anchor)



comparison of exhaust to turbo setup size


actually came out nearly as i envisioned it last spring

so test drive after installed, much quieter drives like stock under 4000 -no longer making huge exhaust w/g dump noise which gets many less stares - but still no indicated boost except when shifting - can hear bov activating and it bounces to 5-7 ish psi for a second, added the vac line to bov when got back in

new scangauge high numbers of 511, 513 [way too high] estimated crank hp but since preturbo the highest i ever saw was 360 (down the back straight in 4th at sebring @125mph) its got to be doing something right!

lowest afr recorded was 10.8 but while i was watching it stayed 11.5 to 12.5

off to go play with the accessport tuning software for the economy 44psi ecu map

 

where are you measuring boost from?

 

went with just before the maf - figured i'd be losing boost with the long intake pipe and the fmic and that would get me actual boost going into engine?

re orifice size / drain - planning to redo my oil tank next week i am draining into side verse top so will redo that - am just a bit scared of running the oil hoses to the engine but if the new tank stills causes occasional smokage then oil lines it will be..

 

No need to fear the long lines to and from the engine for oil. I have been driving my car for about 3 or I think 4 years, daily 12-15k miles per year or more, through all types of conditions, and have had zero issues with those lines. I have a transmission (3/8) line coming from the pumps to the valve cover into the oil fill cap. the feed, I used a nitrous line from the oil filter to the turbo. The only real concern or worry would be the pump giving up for any reason, this is why you need a very reliable pump, and some sort of warning that the pump turned off so you can know when to turn off the car asap. Somehow my 12v wire to the pump turned off one day while at WOT in 3rd gear and 16psi on my VQ30, I basically covered the highway with smoke, that was my indication the pump turned off lol. Since then I have soldered and improved my wiring 200%. Now I got two shurflo pumps inline.

A really important recommendation I shall make, stop test driving the car till you have everything hooked up 100%, its very easy to hurt the motor. Also, I think the reason your only seeing boost when you shift is because of surge, which will also hurt your turbo if you continue doing it. Get vacuum/boost reference from the actual manifold, for the boost gauge and BOV. for the WG, get it from the turbo's compressor housing or very close to it, reason being is that if you have a bad leak, upfront somewhere, the turbo wont try to compensate as much and overspin, if you have the WG reference at the back, then you'll just see low boost on the gauge if you have a leak and the turbo wont be overspinning trying to make up for it. Yes you do get spring pressure if you get reference from the front to the WG but I dont think its worth it, specially since you have a MBC.

 

Also, how many ports does your WG have? looks like you ran a hose to the top. This means if your WG has a second port you HAVE to use the bottom/side one as well. If your applying pressure from the top then it wont open no matter what you have your controller set too(and you will overboost and hurt something). If thats a bleed type with checkball controller, you have to put on a hose going to the side port, leave the top port of the WG open.

like this:

Another option is: you put pressure on both top and bottom port of the WG, the top port having the controller, basically the controller leaks pressure, so the bottom forces the WG to open, depending how much pressure ur leaking through the controller at the top will depend how much boost you get.