yeah...you should have a lot of potential from it.




FYI, i am not 100% sure either but i think this is the gt37r being used:
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1107
its not a straight swap..i think a couple of things on piping change, but nothin major


+1 on

and also

^^^

THISSSSS

 

Do they always rate turbo on BHP? I have a spread sheet for our VQ to calculate the CFM/LBS needed for every rpm and I like to look at the actual boost and CFM at a certain rpm to guage if the turbo is really choking. He's boosting around 14 psi and about 460whp so are you saying he need another 8psi just to add another 40whp?

I think that turbo calculator is actually WHP because if you plug his current power and assume A/F is around 11.7 then he's PSI is around 16.5 psi which is closer to his current psi which is about 14. Base on just the compressor map that turbo can still boost up to 19-20psi IMO.

This is at 16.5psi



At 19 psi..



by the way I had the redline set at 6500rpm.

 

I am running a Gt37R and all this are confusing.
Can Intense confirm exactly what turbo their gt37r's are?.....still i trust my numbers.
I was at local Z dyno day this last Sunday and at just over a 1bar, I made +480wkw on our local pump gas......not bad considering the strongest stock de's barley made 190whp, HR's 205whp and two turbonetics guys just over 300whp close to 1bar.

 

^ 1ZweetZ said it was a larger compressor, 67mm. He seems in the know about these kits, so I'd take that as what it is.

So even then, if IP think its a turbine back pressure issue, going to the 1.06 A/R turbine housing (like was actually suggested by another member earlier on) is a good choice. Definitely wouldnt bother going to the 37r as the intake issues would be more problematic (unless you dont want a filter..)

 

....why would it be problematic?... all the gt37r kits sold dont have the intake pipe with the green filter and NONE have had an issue


Look at hals black Z ....yeah.......is it "problematic"?

Is the 35r with the bigger A/R capable like the gt37r ?
Did you consider the ramifications of the big A/R vs just loosening the intake pipe?.

How many supras with bigger turbos do you see running a filter?... a mesh is suficient..if you are getting debri in there, then you are probably not driving your Z where you are supposed to.

 

I'd be a lil worried bout upgrading to a turbo without a filter.. but thas just me

 

^ That refreshes my memory! Thanks!

I believe you are correct and 1ZweetZ's post confirms it as well. I vaguely remember Han telling me something to the same effect of what you and 1ZweetZ just posted about the 37R used in the kit.

 

Intense had a screen over the compressor inlet on the 37R. But it shouldn't be too difficult to fab an intake with a filter for the Z or G if you really want one. I think it would involve enlarging the hole in the radiator core support of the Z and cutting a hole in the core support of the G for the larger intake pipe to pass thru. Hence why PowerLab probably didn't offer/include an intake with the 37R.

 

The choice between running a filter or not would be up to the buyers personal level of risk acceptance.

The street driven supras mostly run filters. They may take the filter off at the track.... Hal's personal car is still a "shop" car. If I only had to pay dealer wholesale for a GT4088r, i wouldnt care either.

It all boils down to what is causing the high AITs. increasing the compressor wont do much if its exhaust backpressure due to small of a turbine housing.

 

Ohhh, good to know.

 

How many gt37r kits do you think have sold and how many years of feedback does PowerLab have? You privy to all the customer feedback or you think it might be filtered a tad?

No professional recommends running without an air filter so I think down playing it is just more marketing gibberish because there's no room to accomodate it on the kit. Just tell it like it is. Not driving a Z where it's supposed to be driven? You have any idea how many rocks get thrown up driving behind someone on the street or on a road course for that matter?

Not sure what type of air intake protection Hal has on his Z. Not sure he would recommend running a kit without any air filter to his customers...

I think a mesh will probably prevent any damage to the motor from pebbles etc. I have read of guys with drag cars that run without a filter or slip a silicone coupler over some metal mesh and clamp it down with a t-bolt.

I personally would not run without a filter - you must accept the additional risk to the turbo and just accept that you are going to have to freshen it up more often than you might otherwise have to. There's a reason the Garret website provides significant detail on sizing the air filter correctly: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...imization.html

EDIT: Oh yes, I've got a hammer PowerLab can borrow if they decide that making a filter fit might be more optimal than not running one at all. So far in this thread, the OP has been told to run his setup without an exhaust. Now he's being told to run without an intake. Nice - but let's keep some of the original design elements intact!

 

Unless otherwise stated, hp usually means hp at the crank.

Something does not look right. I just ran it and here is what I got. The first is for a BSFC of 0.48 and the second is for a BSFC of 0.58:







Here are the parameters that I used:

Target Power: 570 hp (which is about 500 whp for our cars)
Engine Size: 3.5L
Target A/F: 11
BSFC: 0.48 and 0.58
Mas I/C Loss: 1.7

Redline: 6500 rpm, 95% VE, 145 IAT
Peak Power: 6000 rpm, 97% VE, 135 IAT
Max Boost: 4200 rpm, 95% VE, 120 IAT
Min Boost: 3200 rpm, 93% VE, 90 IAT

I based the AIT assumptions on the fact that pump gas is giving out fairly early on the Powerlab GT35R kit, which is an indication of high AIT.

Squirrel does not list a BSFC value for an intercooled gasoline motor. They show about a 0.2 advantage on the deisal motors. Garrett indicates that BSFC is in the range of 0.5-0.6 for a turbo casoline motor. So I took those values and subtracted 0.2.

Still, the boost pressure looks awfully high, and does not correlate to what we typically see on turbo charged VQ motors. Nonethless, the second chart indicates operation past the choke line. Given the OP's struggle to get to 500whp on a non-DJ dyno, that seems to be the present case.

 

I remember using your fuel flow calculator spreadsheet for my setup Terry. There is a calculation for turbo air flow required and the PSI requirement does not come out the same as the squirrel calc. Hmmm... (your calcs seem more reasonable)

 

I personally would prefer a filter as well, especially if the car is a daily driver or is street driven on a regular basis. However, a proper metal screen/mesh should provide adequate protection against rocks and pebbles. My previous post addressed the issue and what would most likely be involved in the custom fab for an intake.

And no thanks... You Forged guys can keep your hammers to yourselves.



Edit: Just saw your edit. Nobody suggested that the OP should run his car without an exhaust. It was suggested that the exhaust should be disconnected on the dyno to see if it nets any significant gains and to rule out the possibility that the exhaust is a restriction that could be contributing to the problem. That's just basic troubleshooting that any decent shop should/would do.

 

I am considering the 1.06 over the .82 housing but would like to have some hard data before heading down the rabbit hole again. How much more power could be made and what increase in spool time would this mod produce. I have been speaking with another member, off the thread, who is about to start the final phases of a build project with the powerlab gt35r kit and he is seriously considering the 1.06 housing before he starts the tuning. It is a somewhat tight space with the .82 housing between the engine and the firewall and I don't enough know if the larger housing would fit. Also, the hotside outlet would change position alittle and this could throw off the piping which would mean some modification to the downpipe. Finally, with the 4 inch opening on the GT37r inlet, one could reduce from 4 inches to 3.5 inches and fit an intake on the turbo with very little mod to the support braces since there is more space than the current 3 inch intake requires.

 

I have not seen the calculations that Squirrel performance is using, but they are probably using a lot of "rules of thumb", or shortcuts, in their calculatoins.

My calculations start at the very basic level (fuel energy density and mass density) and build from there using well proven equations from physics and thermodynamics. I use an energy conversion efficiency value rather than BSFC, and to me it seems much more straight forward. That number does vary from build to build, but generally falls in the range of 29% to 33% for our cars, unless there is something significantly wrong with the build.

 

I think everyone is getting confused here....the 37r can be had in a 3 or 4" inlet, the 3" was used, and fit's no problem. Han's car has a 76s on it right now...no filter on that one, as it is a 4" inlet.

 

I did it again and I got a different result

Anyways, that calcuator doesnt make sense for BHP. Try plug in you own values and you'll see that the HP is more closer to your WHP. I plug in my actual dyno WHP to that calculator and I came close to my actual PSI. If I plug in my BHP then I end up having higher PSI. It is the same as the OP's WHP. I plug in his 470whp and I came with 14.7 psi. If I plug in 545BHP then it say expected to boost around 19psi. Also BSFC of .43 seem closer to the actual WHP and that is why I always use it.

Here at 470WHP
Expected Boost (psi): 14.7

If I plug in 545BHP
Expected Boost = 19.2 psi.

Now if that calculator is using BHP then why is the expected boost is 19psi? Base on his WHP that calculator is more inline with his actual WHP.

By the way here's the map.. at 14.7..



Edit: I posted the 19psi map but I corrected it to the 14.x psi and it is still look good. I still think this turbo can boost up to 19psi and still be ok. It has enough CFM/LBS to feed our motor at 6800rpm and 19psi assuming it there is only 1psi lost from the pipings and IC.

 

Perfect! Thanks for the clarification.

athenG, I think you're right - it works out better with whp. PM Terry for his nifty spreadsheet (if he's still sharing it around) - it's got lots of nifty calculations that seem to be more in line with real world outcomes... It doesn't plot onto a compressor map, but it calculates the max airflow that the turbo needs to provide to hit the target whp level (so you don't have to manually work through Garrett's formulas in their turbotech 102 and 103 web pages)...

 

i considered the impedence as well,that's why i copy/pasted the part # for the 4" version.i think even with 3" the temp drop would offset the exchangers size.but idnk....seems he would be a good candidate considering he's got high iat and doesn't want to reconfigure and wants to be "cost effective"

that's why i suggested he would be our gineau pig,as far as products go dei has a track record of quality products and i don't think they would expose themselves to a turbonator type product.

there was another thread about this cryo2 when it came out but like most it fizzled from morons....i'll bump it.