F-con vs Haltech
05-25-2010, 12:46 PM
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F-con vs Haltech
I have F-con Vpro + HKS knock amp ($800) w/ 3 bar MAP sensor + wide band + GReddy Type S boost controller.
...pretty complicated + poor install...
Considering getting rid of "HKS system" and replacing with (simpler) HalTech system.
Anyone have experience with pros/cons?
...pretty complicated + poor install...
Considering getting rid of "HKS system" and replacing with (simpler) HalTech system.
Anyone have experience with pros/cons?
05-25-2010, 01:22 PM
#2
FCON has no cam control and requires a special key to tune. Haltech can be tuned by anyone and includes a cam controller. I would ask your tuner for details, but that is the basic difference to my knowledge. I consider them equivalent for the most part.
05-25-2010, 01:45 PM
#3
^ Thanks rcdash for a good quick summary.
HKS F-CON V Pro was earlier to market than Haltech, which gave it a strong presence in the market. After that, it's market share has been fading as people discovered Haltech. With Haltech, your final product is less complicated, more capable, and less expensive.
Haltech - unlocked interface (password protection is available)
HKS F-CON - accessible by HKS Pro tuners ONLY. I have heard complaints from people who get to a track and need to raise their twostep... only to have to drive hours back to their tuner for small adjustments.
Haltech - built in map sensor (up to 22psi of boost, beyond which you can plug in most any external map sensor)
HKS F-CON - requires additional map sensor
Haltech - Incredible data logger, both onboard that will record sublogs anytime user-definable trigger (such as Boost >1psi) is hit, as well as pc logging. Playback in data logger software, or live over your map as if you are driving the car.
HKS F-CON - data logs not viewable by customer
Haltech - ignition copythrough selectable cell-by-cell, enabling stock drivebywire system to maintain a nice idle
HKS F-CON - requires much more work to achieve nice idle with no hunting
Haltech - Injector PW or VE Tuning
HKS F-CON - Injector PW tuning only?
Haltech - Bank-specific o2 control with 2 o2 inputs. Accepts most any o2 controller, including Haltech dual wideband controller, starting at $236
Haltech - Boost Control solenoid $89, allows progressive boost based on wheel speed off the shelf. All four wheel speed signals are available in the software via included plug&play engine harness.
Haltech - Incredible tuning software.
I can keep going, but will stop there. If purchasing new, it would be a no-brainer for me. Now, in your situation, if the FCON is working for you and you are currently satisfied with it - leave it alone
HKS F-CON V Pro was earlier to market than Haltech, which gave it a strong presence in the market. After that, it's market share has been fading as people discovered Haltech. With Haltech, your final product is less complicated, more capable, and less expensive.
Haltech - unlocked interface (password protection is available)
HKS F-CON - accessible by HKS Pro tuners ONLY. I have heard complaints from people who get to a track and need to raise their twostep... only to have to drive hours back to their tuner for small adjustments.
Haltech - built in map sensor (up to 22psi of boost, beyond which you can plug in most any external map sensor)
HKS F-CON - requires additional map sensor
Haltech - Incredible data logger, both onboard that will record sublogs anytime user-definable trigger (such as Boost >1psi) is hit, as well as pc logging. Playback in data logger software, or live over your map as if you are driving the car.
HKS F-CON - data logs not viewable by customer
Haltech - ignition copythrough selectable cell-by-cell, enabling stock drivebywire system to maintain a nice idle
HKS F-CON - requires much more work to achieve nice idle with no hunting
Haltech - Injector PW or VE Tuning
HKS F-CON - Injector PW tuning only?
Haltech - Bank-specific o2 control with 2 o2 inputs. Accepts most any o2 controller, including Haltech dual wideband controller, starting at $236
Haltech - Boost Control solenoid $89, allows progressive boost based on wheel speed off the shelf. All four wheel speed signals are available in the software via included plug&play engine harness.
Haltech - Incredible tuning software.
I can keep going, but will stop there. If purchasing new, it would be a no-brainer for me. Now, in your situation, if the FCON is working for you and you are currently satisfied with it - leave it alone
Last edited by Dynosty; 05-25-2010 at 01:47 PM.
05-25-2010, 01:51 PM
#4
You just can't beat the fact that the Haltech is one unit, and does everything. Logging is something I would never give up. It is the best feature if you want to tune yourself. The interface is very user friendly and you don't have to be "pro tuner" to know what you are doing. I never tuned a car before, and was able to figure most of the stuff out myself. I am by no means an expert, but can get it done with the Haltech.
Not to mention great support by Hal. Always answers PM's and emails.. can't ask for better support.
Not to mention great support by Hal. Always answers PM's and emails.. can't ask for better support.
05-25-2010, 03:29 PM
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smoother
Thanks for the response-
I have been told that the fcon is "smoother"???
...and tuners the tune with it really seem to like it...
GTM, FP, GRD...
anymore why would anyone recommend the fcon???
confused:
Has anyone swapped Haltech for F-con with out changing anything else to compare?
I have been told that the fcon is "smoother"???
...and tuners the tune with it really seem to like it...
GTM, FP, GRD...
anymore why would anyone recommend the fcon???
confused:
Has anyone swapped Haltech for F-con with out changing anything else to compare?
05-25-2010, 03:55 PM
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Thanks for the response-
I have been told that the fcon is "smoother"???
...and tuners the tune with it really seem to like it...
GTM, FP, GRD...
anymore why would anyone recommend the fcon???
confused:
Has anyone swapped Haltech for F-con with out changing anything else to compare?
I have been told that the fcon is "smoother"???
...and tuners the tune with it really seem to like it...
GTM, FP, GRD...
anymore why would anyone recommend the fcon???
confused:
Has anyone swapped Haltech for F-con with out changing anything else to compare?
Emanage blue is what uR looking for.
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05-25-2010, 11:56 PM
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Hi Guys,
I find myself in a similar position, can anyone answer these questions regarding the 2:
FCON: Uses the stock ECU for Camshaft and Crankshaft position inputs.
HALTECH: Camshaft and Crankshaft position inputs are directly to the Haltech
ALSO,
Is it true that the Haltech can start the car without the stock ECU connected and the FCON cannot do this?
I find myself in a similar position, can anyone answer these questions regarding the 2:
FCON: Uses the stock ECU for Camshaft and Crankshaft position inputs.
HALTECH: Camshaft and Crankshaft position inputs are directly to the Haltech
ALSO,
Is it true that the Haltech can start the car without the stock ECU connected and the FCON cannot do this?
05-26-2010, 05:17 AM
#16
Both leave the drive by wire (throttle control) to the stock ECU. I believe the Haltech can be used for everything, but it's not supported as plug-and-play that way. The Haltech has a built in cam controller. I don't think the sensor inputs are read any differently by the Haltech vs the FCON but not sure about that or why it would be important. I believe both provide 32x32 resolution fueling so one should not be smoother than the other.
Last edited by rcdash; 05-26-2010 at 05:18 AM.
05-26-2010, 05:54 AM
#18
One note, for those who already have the F-CON, you can use Uprev Osiris to play with cam phasing. Unfortunately, this is yet another added expense that you will incur using the F-CON that would otherwise be avoided using the Haltech.
EDIT: changing the cam phasing from the stock profile may or may not have benefits. So far, nobody has verified that there are significant benefits to be had. I have asked the question below and will update this post if and when we get some solid answers in this thread.
When I first decided to go with the F-CON, the Haltech was new and I remember seeing that there were outstanding issues waiting to be addressed with new software updates yet to be released. Also, my tuner was very familiar with the F-CON, but at that time had not yet played with the Haltech. So, I chose to go with the F-CON.
If I had it to do all over again, I would probably go with the Haltech (EDIT: well, maybe, but D350Z10's responses are giving me second thoughts on this). Sure, the Haltech by itself costs more than the F-CON, but by the time you add all of the extra components that you need with the F-CON, the costs really start to add up, e.g., map sensor, AFK Knock Amp, Osiris if you want to play with cam phasing (EDIT: this may be a waste of time, we'll see if anyone has any success with this), and traction control. In the end, I think you would save quite a bit of money with the Haltech. For example, an external traction control unit and an external driver for low impedance injectors combined run almost as much as the Haltech by itself.
I do have two quick questions:
Early on I heard of some issues with the Haltech knock detection not working so great. Have these issues been resolved?
Also, how well does the Haltech internal boost control work? This is yet another avenue to save money if it works well.
EDIT: changing the cam phasing from the stock profile may or may not have benefits. So far, nobody has verified that there are significant benefits to be had. I have asked the question below and will update this post if and when we get some solid answers in this thread.
When I first decided to go with the F-CON, the Haltech was new and I remember seeing that there were outstanding issues waiting to be addressed with new software updates yet to be released. Also, my tuner was very familiar with the F-CON, but at that time had not yet played with the Haltech. So, I chose to go with the F-CON.
If I had it to do all over again, I would probably go with the Haltech (EDIT: well, maybe, but D350Z10's responses are giving me second thoughts on this). Sure, the Haltech by itself costs more than the F-CON, but by the time you add all of the extra components that you need with the F-CON, the costs really start to add up, e.g., map sensor, AFK Knock Amp, Osiris if you want to play with cam phasing (EDIT: this may be a waste of time, we'll see if anyone has any success with this), and traction control. In the end, I think you would save quite a bit of money with the Haltech. For example, an external traction control unit and an external driver for low impedance injectors combined run almost as much as the Haltech by itself.
I do have two quick questions:
Early on I heard of some issues with the Haltech knock detection not working so great. Have these issues been resolved?
Also, how well does the Haltech internal boost control work? This is yet another avenue to save money if it works well.
Last edited by ttg35fort; 05-26-2010 at 02:52 PM.
05-26-2010, 06:03 AM
#19
Ive had the Haltech and had two exceptional tunners play with it and still couldn't get the tune right.
Switched to the FCON Vpro v3.3 and it literally was a night and day improvement on driveability and overall smoothness of the tune.
Fcon is more refined and when switching maps its just the flip of a switch, not pulling out your laptop and changing maps.
Switched to the FCON Vpro v3.3 and it literally was a night and day improvement on driveability and overall smoothness of the tune.
Fcon is more refined and when switching maps its just the flip of a switch, not pulling out your laptop and changing maps.
05-26-2010, 06:22 AM
#20
Active knock control was added to the Haltech in v1.06. The internal map sensor is good to 22 psi. The internal PWM output for the boost solenoid works quite well and can be setup as closed loop or open loop. You can set up two axes for compensation to base boost off things like speed and wheel spin for example. I still had to buy Osiris to change my idle, speed limiter, and to try to set AFR targets to avoid CELS (ended up just disabling them). With the Haltech you will get a CEL for cams because the stock ECU is not in control. InjectedPerformance provides a package deal I think for an Osiris reflash along with the Haltech to get rid of little annoyances like that.
Dil, I'm not sure what was going on with your unit. It does seem that there is some issue with early 2003 cars - perhaps related to cam phasing - str8dum1 and blackbird are the only affected to my knowledge though.
Dil, I'm not sure what was going on with your unit. It does seem that there is some issue with early 2003 cars - perhaps related to cam phasing - str8dum1 and blackbird are the only affected to my knowledge though.
Last edited by rcdash; 05-26-2010 at 06:25 AM.