Cass007.... ver 5.0
06-27-2010, 06:19 AM
#181
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It has to do with this thread b/c you're like every other person in here EXCEPT Chris. Point blame left and right with little to NO information. As soon as Chris finds something to point another direction you'll ride that train.
We ALL want to help him here but pointing him to assumptions is NOT helping him.
My problem with your thread is you placed a name of a reputable company in a thread to see if they could be to blame for something. When in all actuality you were of the opinion that the dealer did it. Please correct me if Im wrong but I saw that thread as seeing if you can go back against IPP when you KNOW something happened that is NOT warrantable and could EASILY F up a motor.
We ALL want to help him here but pointing him to assumptions is NOT helping him.
My problem with your thread is you placed a name of a reputable company in a thread to see if they could be to blame for something. When in all actuality you were of the opinion that the dealer did it. Please correct me if Im wrong but I saw that thread as seeing if you can go back against IPP when you KNOW something happened that is NOT warrantable and could EASILY F up a motor.
06-27-2010, 06:29 AM
#182
To be clear as well, I don't think anyone involved in the last build caused any error at this time. Thinking through it rationally, I would be the last person they would want to mess up on considering my history here.
I've always been one too.
06-27-2010, 07:40 AM
#184
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My Cosworth built and boosted G is 100X more reliable than this factory POS BMW. hahaha!!!
To Cass: You don't know me but I have read your threads. I am really sorry to hear this has happened to you again. Best of luck to you with whatever you choose to do from here on out. If you do fix the Z please do run an oil cooler...it does make a big diff in cruising temps and temps under heavy boost.
Last edited by G Coupe; 06-27-2010 at 07:42 AM.
06-27-2010, 10:14 AM
#186
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Hey Cass, What kind of oil were you running when this latest failure occurred ?
Forged set the oil temp alarms on my defi setup in the G35 APS-TT for ~230 degs IIRC, and I could reach that temp in the heat of summer and pushing the car hard in the mountains around north AL. When the oil temp alarm did go off, one could not help but see/hear it and just slow down then the temps would drop quickly to around 190-210 which is what it typically settled to in the summer heat
Edit: Those numbers are what I saw running ~475 whp with a Koyo radiator and an oil cooler.
Forged set the oil temp alarms on my defi setup in the G35 APS-TT for ~230 degs IIRC, and I could reach that temp in the heat of summer and pushing the car hard in the mountains around north AL. When the oil temp alarm did go off, one could not help but see/hear it and just slow down then the temps would drop quickly to around 190-210 which is what it typically settled to in the summer heat
Edit: Those numbers are what I saw running ~475 whp with a Koyo radiator and an oil cooler.
Last edited by ToastZ; 06-27-2010 at 10:17 AM.
06-27-2010, 10:48 AM
#187
Chris,
What kind of EGT's are you running at vacuum over 3krpm?
If your EMS is overly retarding the timing at vacuum your EGT's will run through the roof, superheating your turbos and oil...
I see evidence of a blown turbo seal and possible manifold leak (according to what you said) which would EASILY happen over time in this scenario..
On my UTEC this happened to me - the tuner put fixed timing values in the vacuum column which caused my EGT's to go sky high when cruising over 3k rpm. When I put the vacuum column to bypass (ECU controlled) the EGT dropped to normal at all RPM's...
The A/F was spot on in both scenarios and the car drove the same... I would have never known if it weren't for my EGT gauge.
I don't lknow how the ViPEC controls timing in vacuum but this is seriously something to look into. I'm not saying it is the root cause but it could play a significant part in the fail. An oil cooler would have only prolonged the destruction...
What kind of EGT's are you running at vacuum over 3krpm?
If your EMS is overly retarding the timing at vacuum your EGT's will run through the roof, superheating your turbos and oil...
I see evidence of a blown turbo seal and possible manifold leak (according to what you said) which would EASILY happen over time in this scenario..
On my UTEC this happened to me - the tuner put fixed timing values in the vacuum column which caused my EGT's to go sky high when cruising over 3k rpm. When I put the vacuum column to bypass (ECU controlled) the EGT dropped to normal at all RPM's...
The A/F was spot on in both scenarios and the car drove the same... I would have never known if it weren't for my EGT gauge.
I don't lknow how the ViPEC controls timing in vacuum but this is seriously something to look into. I'm not saying it is the root cause but it could play a significant part in the fail. An oil cooler would have only prolonged the destruction...
Last edited by djamps; 06-27-2010 at 11:03 AM.
06-27-2010, 11:07 AM
#188
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I am sure if Chris does build again...he will stick to basics this time.....Stick to whats been proven....you know what I am saying Chris
06-27-2010, 12:46 PM
#190
Hey Cass, What kind of oil were you running when this latest failure occurred ?
Forged set the oil temp alarms on my defi setup in the G35 APS-TT for ~230 degs IIRC, and I could reach that temp in the heat of summer and pushing the car hard in the mountains around north AL. When the oil temp alarm did go off, one could not help but see/hear it and just slow down then the temps would drop quickly to around 190-210 which is what it typically settled to in the summer heat
Edit: Those numbers are what I saw running ~475 whp with a Koyo radiator and an oil cooler.
Forged set the oil temp alarms on my defi setup in the G35 APS-TT for ~230 degs IIRC, and I could reach that temp in the heat of summer and pushing the car hard in the mountains around north AL. When the oil temp alarm did go off, one could not help but see/hear it and just slow down then the temps would drop quickly to around 190-210 which is what it typically settled to in the summer heat
Edit: Those numbers are what I saw running ~475 whp with a Koyo radiator and an oil cooler.
What kind of EGT's are you running at vacuum over 3krpm?
If your EMS is overly retarding the timing at vacuum your EGT's will run through the roof, superheating your turbos and oil...
I see evidence of a blown turbo seal and possible manifold leak (according to what you said) which would EASILY happen over time in this scenario..
If your EMS is overly retarding the timing at vacuum your EGT's will run through the roof, superheating your turbos and oil...
I see evidence of a blown turbo seal and possible manifold leak (according to what you said) which would EASILY happen over time in this scenario..
The oil on the drivers side IC pipe was minimal and is somewhat normal in the APS kit from what I have heard. It was not much at all.
The motor is out (thanks jtgli) and the exhaust leak was a loose nut on the rear of the pass side manifold. I could turn it with my hand
06-27-2010, 02:12 PM
#191
I have an E90 335i as my daily driver...and it is a big POS!!!! I don't have the overheating issues (yet, my car has the oil cooler), but I have gone through one set of factory turbos in a year and a half of ownership...not too mention all of the misc malfunctions this car has. Im in the shop with it once a month at least...the car is bone stock too...not one mod done to it.
My Cosworth built and boosted G is 100X more reliable than this factory POS BMW. hahaha!!!
My Cosworth built and boosted G is 100X more reliable than this factory POS BMW. hahaha!!!
That's the kind of stuff that's never posted on e90post.Like I said on g35driver before there is a whole lot of people selling those even heavily modded under 50k miles and always say some BS reason for selling. "I'm selling bc I'm moving."
Cant be surprised neither. It's BMWs first run at turbo charging. Toyota and Nissan been turbo charging cars for decades.
This is former lease.
My 335 had 4 sparkplugs changed at 20k, check engine light would come on starting at 15k, turbo pipe was loose, idle was would drop and car would shut down in colder than 50 degree starts and other issues. I can count on my 2 hands how many times i went WOT with 25k on the car. My G saw rapage from day one all the way to 70k miles when it finally had a gasket leak near the spark plugs.
Last edited by Andrei; 06-27-2010 at 02:24 PM.
06-27-2010, 02:23 PM
#192
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Straight from the horse's mouth. That's the kind of stuff that's never posted on e90post.
Like I said on g35driver before there is a whole lot of people selling those even heavily modded under 50k miles and always say some BS reason for selling. "I'm selling bc I'm moving."
Cant be surprised neither. It's BMWs first run at turbo charging. Toyota and Nissan been turbo charging cars for decades.
That's the kind of stuff that's never posted on e90post.Like I said on g35driver before there is a whole lot of people selling those even heavily modded under 50k miles and always say some BS reason for selling. "I'm selling bc I'm moving."
Cant be surprised neither. It's BMWs first run at turbo charging. Toyota and Nissan been turbo charging cars for decades.
Last edited by G Coupe; 06-27-2010 at 02:26 PM.
06-27-2010, 02:47 PM
#193
Hahaha!!! I want to sell my 335i...only because I hate it! Seriously its a big POS...even the service guys at BMW say the car is crap (in a round about way). I will never buy another BMW. BTW this is not BMW's first foray into turbocharging...the old 2002's (I think they were made in the 70's) were turbocharged and they were very succesful with that car in Germany...I don't believe that particular model of 2002 came to the U.S. though.
Sorry OP for being OT.
06-28-2010, 11:51 AM
#195
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I saw 240 oil temps this weekend running the car on the highway :hmm: and running at the drag strip I never made more then 2 back to back passes and saw ~225. Once my oil cooler is on I am hoping to drop ~20 deg.
I cant even imagine what temps your oil saw chris.
I cant even imagine what temps your oil saw chris.
06-29-2010, 06:04 AM
#196
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I can't believe Justice machined the block wrong. I have the specs saved in an email somewhere for sure. Jim was VERY aware of my status and what I have been through with this car.
I find myself thinking of the recurring failures and how and when they happened. It makes me wonder if the oil cooler has been the FAIL point all along, on every engine. All the failures have been when its real hot outside, mid-summer or so. Possible my kit is heating the oil to the fail point and it has never been seen because I don't have a temp gauge
Either way, if I rebuild I will be sure to have Defi oil temp, oil pressure and coolant temp gauges installed in the center console as well as running dual oil coolers since I'm a sucker for symmetry.
I find myself thinking of the recurring failures and how and when they happened. It makes me wonder if the oil cooler has been the FAIL point all along, on every engine. All the failures have been when its real hot outside, mid-summer or so. Possible my kit is heating the oil to the fail point and it has never been seen because I don't have a temp gauge
Either way, if I rebuild I will be sure to have Defi oil temp, oil pressure and coolant temp gauges installed in the center console as well as running dual oil coolers since I'm a sucker for symmetry.
At this point Chris i think you said the magic words "Oli cooler" I'm hearin temps are way up in the 90s in MD just think at what temps your turbos + engine heat is causin to the oil temps (Pre-maturely) breakin it down to nothin.. Im truly suprised that number 3rd on your list of parts wasn't a oil cooler.
Facts..
Thermal Breakdown. In a mechanical working environment, the temperature of the lubricant is a primary concern. In addition to separating the moving parts of the machinery, the lubricant must also dissipate heat. This means the lubricant will sometimes be heated above its recommended stable temperature. Overheating can cause the light ends of the lubricant to vaporize or the lubricant itself to decompose. This can cause certain additives to be removed from the system without performing their job, or the viscosity of the lubricant may increase.
At temperatures greatly exceeding the thermal stability point of the lubricant, larger molecules will break apart into smaller molecules. This thermal cracking, often referred to as thermal breakdown, can initiate side reactions, induce polymerization, produce gaseous by-products, destroy additives and generate insoluble by-products. In some cases, thermal degradation will cause a decrease in viscosity.
The list on here gives you the flash point of most oil weights
http://www.exol.rs/en/motor-oils.htm
some other links
http://www.aa1car.com/library/oil_viscosity.htm
06-29-2010, 06:34 AM
#197
^^ lance the scientist LMFAO
I think the high quality oil Chris uses prevents any major breakdown (which would have been evident in UOA), but the bearings just can't handle the heat... bearings are the first to go when temps get too hot. Stock bearings are ESPECIALLY sensitive -- so I will say oil coolers are equally important for both stock and built block.
Just look at Barnabas's post -- he's seeing elevated, possibly dangerous temps just cruising down the freeway out of boost. Even moderate drag racing doesn't produce such temps...
And we have no idea what kind of EGT's chris was running with his ECU/Tune which also have a huge affect on oil temps for big oil cooled turbos. Pulling too much timing in closed loop will shoot temps through the roof.
I think the high quality oil Chris uses prevents any major breakdown (which would have been evident in UOA), but the bearings just can't handle the heat... bearings are the first to go when temps get too hot. Stock bearings are ESPECIALLY sensitive -- so I will say oil coolers are equally important for both stock and built block.
Just look at Barnabas's post -- he's seeing elevated, possibly dangerous temps just cruising down the freeway out of boost. Even moderate drag racing doesn't produce such temps...
And we have no idea what kind of EGT's chris was running with his ECU/Tune which also have a huge affect on oil temps for big oil cooled turbos. Pulling too much timing in closed loop will shoot temps through the roof.
Last edited by djamps; 06-29-2010 at 06:41 AM.
06-29-2010, 07:05 AM
#199
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Straight from the horse's mouth. That's the kind of stuff that's never posted on e90post.
Like I said on g35driver before there is a whole lot of people selling those even heavily modded under 50k miles and always say some BS reason for selling. "I'm selling bc I'm moving."
Cant be surprised neither. It's BMWs first run at turbo charging. Toyota and Nissan been turbo charging cars for decades.
This is former lease.
That's the kind of stuff that's never posted on e90post.Like I said on g35driver before there is a whole lot of people selling those even heavily modded under 50k miles and always say some BS reason for selling. "I'm selling bc I'm moving."
Cant be surprised neither. It's BMWs first run at turbo charging. Toyota and Nissan been turbo charging cars for decades.
This is former lease.
06-29-2010, 07:12 AM
#200
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^^ lance the scientist LMFAO
I think the high quality oil Chris uses prevents any major breakdown (which would have been evident in UOA), but the bearings just can't handle the heat... bearings are the first to go when temps get too hot. Stock bearings are ESPECIALLY sensitive -- so I will say oil coolers are equally important for both stock and built block.
Just look at Barnabas's post -- he's seeing elevated, possibly dangerous temps just cruising down the freeway out of boost. Even moderate drag racing doesn't produce such temps...
And we have no idea what kind of EGT's chris was running with his ECU/Tune which also have a huge affect on oil temps for big oil cooled turbos. Pulling too much timing in closed loop will shoot temps through the roof.
I think the high quality oil Chris uses prevents any major breakdown (which would have been evident in UOA), but the bearings just can't handle the heat... bearings are the first to go when temps get too hot. Stock bearings are ESPECIALLY sensitive -- so I will say oil coolers are equally important for both stock and built block.
Just look at Barnabas's post -- he's seeing elevated, possibly dangerous temps just cruising down the freeway out of boost. Even moderate drag racing doesn't produce such temps...
And we have no idea what kind of EGT's chris was running with his ECU/Tune which also have a huge affect on oil temps for big oil cooled turbos. Pulling too much timing in closed loop will shoot temps through the roof.
most seem to have flash points in the 220 230 range.