Cass007.... ver 5.0
06-30-2010, 12:35 PM
#222
Good point John, the sockets I have are 12 sided, but the issue is more that the kit was designed by an apparent sadist. The manifolds are so tight that sockets are a no go, as are the looped end of wrenches. I can only fit the open end of a wrench in some spots and the heat has made these bishes not want to release easily.
I finally got the cross member off this morning so the motor is ready for travel to Justice in the morning to be torn down and evaluated. There is a bolt for the drivers side manifold that I have zero idea how you could ever get a tool on it. I would take more pics, but the wife took the camera to the beach for the week. I'm done for the day and have already begun cocktail hour.
I finally got the cross member off this morning so the motor is ready for travel to Justice in the morning to be torn down and evaluated. There is a bolt for the drivers side manifold that I have zero idea how you could ever get a tool on it. I would take more pics, but the wife took the camera to the beach for the week. I'm done for the day and have already begun cocktail hour.
i have a few cut up wrenches kicking around 
06-30-2010, 04:18 PM
#225
Cheers Paul 
Got the motor tucked into the back of the Lexus and I'm ready to go in the morning. I"ll be glad to take a break from the car for a few weeks then. Golf on Friday and possiblyout to Vegas for a few days of WSOP fun before family vacation. Crappy cell phone pics tomorrow of the carnage.
Got the motor tucked into the back of the Lexus and I'm ready to go in the morning. I"ll be glad to take a break from the car for a few weeks then. Golf on Friday and possiblyout to Vegas for a few days of WSOP fun before family vacation. Crappy cell phone pics tomorrow of the carnage.
06-30-2010, 05:47 PM
#227
Good point John, the sockets I have are 12 sided, but the issue is more that the kit was designed by an apparent sadist. The manifolds are so tight that sockets are a no go, as are the looped end of wrenches. I can only fit the open end of a wrench in some spots and the heat has made these bishes not want to release easily.
I finally got the cross member off this morning so the motor is ready for travel to Justice in the morning to be torn down and evaluated. There is a bolt for the drivers side manifold that I have zero idea how you could ever get a tool on it. I would take more pics, but the wife took the camera to the beach for the week. I'm done for the day and have already begun cocktail hour.
I finally got the cross member off this morning so the motor is ready for travel to Justice in the morning to be torn down and evaluated. There is a bolt for the drivers side manifold that I have zero idea how you could ever get a tool on it. I would take more pics, but the wife took the camera to the beach for the week. I'm done for the day and have already begun cocktail hour.
07-01-2010, 02:24 AM
#229
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well if u going to rebuild it , build it with style carbon fiber pistons ;p
link
http://endless-r-tuning.blogspot.com...7_archive.html
link
http://endless-r-tuning.blogspot.com...7_archive.html
07-01-2010, 06:10 AM
#231
Cass you have to understand that you now drive a racecar. that requires cash and a nationwide pit crew.
Changing that oil every week is cheaper than all these headaches.
Two thumbs up on tearing it down yourself. I just swapped a stock block in my car....took 3 days...taking 2 months to fix all my mistakes...lol
but fun and I woundlt change it for the world.
i have tools and shizzil too although superG is far closer to you than me in VA. lol
07-01-2010, 06:56 AM
#232
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Cass you have to understand that you now drive a racecar. that requires cash and a nationwide pit crew.
Changing that oil every week is cheaper than all these headaches.
Two thumbs up on tearing it down yourself. I just swapped a stock block in my car....took 3 days...taking 2 months to fix all my mistakes...lol
but fun and I woundlt change it for the world.
i have tools and shizzil too although superG is far closer to you than me in VA. lol
Changing that oil every week is cheaper than all these headaches.
Two thumbs up on tearing it down yourself. I just swapped a stock block in my car....took 3 days...taking 2 months to fix all my mistakes...lol
but fun and I woundlt change it for the world.
i have tools and shizzil too although superG is far closer to you than me in VA. lol
07-01-2010, 07:40 AM
#233
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If he broke down in the heat explain how I have 3 summers of built engine abuse in MD spinning to higher rpm's with no oil cooler? Total built engine abuse for me is now almost 15K miles.
I still dont buy it to the point we can attribute his failure to the lack of oil cooler.
I still dont buy it to the point we can attribute his failure to the lack of oil cooler.
Now "4th time is a charm"...jsut sounds amazing to be consider it.... but oh well.... best of luck
Originally Posted by Cass
Golf on Friday and possiblyout to Vegas for a few days of WSOP fun before family vacation.
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 07-01-2010 at 09:45 AM.
07-01-2010, 08:04 AM
#234
+1, is not just that even....
lol..... ovbiously the VQ must on an alternate world from reality unlike other engines and builds of higher whp power with more consistency than the VQ has reached.... and to claim that it may not bee neded on drag is ridiculus but not as much as claiming that you need 2, but not so even more ridiculus at anybody that thinks that should be the norm to have 2oil cooler and flushing coolant every 2 weeks or using evans coolants is a must...but still not as obsene ridiculus as anybody willing to put blame in all this just for the oil cooler.
Now "4th time is a charm"...jsut sounds amazing to be consider it.... but oh well.... best of luck
give me a holler/pm when you are in vegas...
lol..... ovbiously the VQ must on an alternate world from reality unlike other engines and builds of higher whp power with more consistency than the VQ has reached.... and to claim that it may not bee neded on drag is ridiculus but not as much as claiming that you need 2, but not so even more ridiculus at anybody that thinks that should be the norm to have 2oil cooler and flushing coolant every 2 weeks or using evans coolants is a must...but still not as obsene ridiculus as anybody willing to put blame in all this just for the oil cooler.
Now "4th time is a charm"...jsut sounds amazing to be consider it.... but oh well.... best of luck
give me a holler/pm when you are in vegas...
All I am saying is that it's a combination of things. Tune, EMS, turbos, weather, lack of oil cooler. It's common on all 4 of his builds. To blame it on anything else is silly, all of these things need to be addressed on the new build.
07-01-2010, 09:45 AM
#235
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You were quoted more so because...I think you are just playing it safe with your comment and now this last one(but nothin personally against you btw)... but the "lets blame a diverse set of things" .... is what promotes lack of accountability and allows bad information to remain, and it just scared everybody into thinking this is some how the to be expected.... all too common of the community, and i understand there are friendships around but some are jsut over their head.
I dont care if you dont follow my posts, or if you want to fixiate on just spelling, and dont want not stick to the point i made about how easily people eat wrong information;... i made the point to look at other platforms, ie why i said the VQ must be on an alternate reality when.....so there is a lot of just "singing" to the choir....... and i am not saying this to create drama... but there simply is just a lot of bad assumptions and opinions that automatically get taken as fact....and i sarcastically(and bad spelling) pointed a few of them.
How on earth would the turbos cause the engine to fail similarly 3 different times, or how can you blame the weather... and not just beauce i live in az, but other builds in different states, and also w/ hot dry summer weather dont have that issue...
I am not quick to blame the vipec, because i dont want sheep movers to automaticall say i am jsut trashing it to favor the proefi..... but IMO for a standalone it apperently didnt provide adequate monitoring nor safety checks to detect the engine was givin up... the issue with the oil cooler is just that for how simple and innexpensive in the whole scheme of things, wasnt it suggested by any of the builders in either of the 3 tryes they had on the car already....considering some of the other unnecessary(some jsut because they are overkill or enver taken advantage) mods that cass paid for they couldnt suggest that.... maybe they didnt expect it to be an issue...which is understandable too, so it reinforces the thinking that that may not have been issue.
Cass build dream is hanging bya thread.... and its NOT HIS FAULT.... and its amazing that some people even hinted he may have had somethign to do.... well 4 times IMO excludes the driver/owner as the culprit... and it does bother me that people are just being to correct, too much preaching to choir....
and IMO the suggestion of going to a 2jz is ...bad... i dunno why would you want to switch to a "inferior" engine....
I dont care if you dont follow my posts, or if you want to fixiate on just spelling, and dont want not stick to the point i made about how easily people eat wrong information;... i made the point to look at other platforms, ie why i said the VQ must be on an alternate reality when.....so there is a lot of just "singing" to the choir....... and i am not saying this to create drama... but there simply is just a lot of bad assumptions and opinions that automatically get taken as fact....and i sarcastically(and bad spelling) pointed a few of them.
How on earth would the turbos cause the engine to fail similarly 3 different times, or how can you blame the weather... and not just beauce i live in az, but other builds in different states, and also w/ hot dry summer weather dont have that issue...
I am not quick to blame the vipec, because i dont want sheep movers to automaticall say i am jsut trashing it to favor the proefi..... but IMO for a standalone it apperently didnt provide adequate monitoring nor safety checks to detect the engine was givin up... the issue with the oil cooler is just that for how simple and innexpensive in the whole scheme of things, wasnt it suggested by any of the builders in either of the 3 tryes they had on the car already....considering some of the other unnecessary(some jsut because they are overkill or enver taken advantage) mods that cass paid for they couldnt suggest that.... maybe they didnt expect it to be an issue...which is understandable too, so it reinforces the thinking that that may not have been issue.
Cass build dream is hanging bya thread.... and its NOT HIS FAULT.... and its amazing that some people even hinted he may have had somethign to do.... well 4 times IMO excludes the driver/owner as the culprit... and it does bother me that people are just being to correct, too much preaching to choir....
and IMO the suggestion of going to a 2jz is ...bad... i dunno why would you want to switch to a "inferior" engine....
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 07-01-2010 at 09:58 AM.
07-01-2010, 11:11 AM
#236
The only people that will tell you that an oil cooler is not necessary for reliable FI are those that either (A) don't run an oil temperature gauge or (B) don't have a car that runs (sits in a garage, been in a shop past 3 yrs, etc).
I can post data logs of oil temp vs seconds in boost WITH an oil cooler. You keep the revs above 5k for more than 20 seconds and you will see oil temps climb regardless of what kind of cooler you've got. The larger the cooler, the harder you can push it without the engine getting too hot. I drive twisty roads back and forth each day to work, only 20 mins, in 3rd and 4th gear, at 15 psi, and my oil peak temp yesterday was 260 deg F. Peak coolant was 185. Peak trans was 200. Ambient air temp was 89 deg F. AIT was 75-90 degrees (running W/M). Do what you want with the data.
Alberto, if you've been running great without an oil cooler, consider yourself lucky - and get an oil cooler on there. I'd be surprised if you didn't have elevated copper and lead levels in your UOA from Blackstone.
I can post data logs of oil temp vs seconds in boost WITH an oil cooler. You keep the revs above 5k for more than 20 seconds and you will see oil temps climb regardless of what kind of cooler you've got. The larger the cooler, the harder you can push it without the engine getting too hot. I drive twisty roads back and forth each day to work, only 20 mins, in 3rd and 4th gear, at 15 psi, and my oil peak temp yesterday was 260 deg F. Peak coolant was 185. Peak trans was 200. Ambient air temp was 89 deg F. AIT was 75-90 degrees (running W/M). Do what you want with the data.
Alberto, if you've been running great without an oil cooler, consider yourself lucky - and get an oil cooler on there. I'd be surprised if you didn't have elevated copper and lead levels in your UOA from Blackstone.
Last edited by rcdash; 07-01-2010 at 11:19 AM.
07-01-2010, 12:07 PM
#237
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The only people that will tell you that an oil cooler is not necessary for reliable FI are those that either (A) don't run an oil temperature gauge or (B) don't have a car that runs (sits in a garage, been in a shop past 3 yrs, etc).
I can post data logs of oil temp vs seconds in boost WITH an oil cooler. You keep the revs above 5k for more than 20 seconds and you will see oil temps climb regardless of what kind of cooler you've got. The larger the cooler, the harder you can push it without the engine getting too hot. I drive twisty roads back and forth each day to work, only 20 mins, in 3rd and 4th gear, at 15 psi, and my oil peak temp yesterday was 260 deg F. Peak coolant was 185. Peak trans was 200. Ambient air temp was 89 deg F. AIT was 75-90 degrees (running W/M). Do what you want with the data.
Alberto, if you've been running great without an oil cooler, consider yourself lucky - and get an oil cooler on there. I'd be surprised if you didn't have elevated copper and lead levels in your UOA from Blackstone.
I can post data logs of oil temp vs seconds in boost WITH an oil cooler. You keep the revs above 5k for more than 20 seconds and you will see oil temps climb regardless of what kind of cooler you've got. The larger the cooler, the harder you can push it without the engine getting too hot. I drive twisty roads back and forth each day to work, only 20 mins, in 3rd and 4th gear, at 15 psi, and my oil peak temp yesterday was 260 deg F. Peak coolant was 185. Peak trans was 200. Ambient air temp was 89 deg F. AIT was 75-90 degrees (running W/M). Do what you want with the data.
Alberto, if you've been running great without an oil cooler, consider yourself lucky - and get an oil cooler on there. I'd be surprised if you didn't have elevated copper and lead levels in your UOA from Blackstone.
I saw similar results to what Raj is reporting when I had my G35. Summer heat, mountain roads, 14psi and my temps would easily get to 240 so getting to 260 is definitely possible if you keep pushing it.
The GTR got to about 240F at barber after 20mins on the track and then we would cool it down. It has a fairly decent oil cooler, but I will definitely be upgrading it and also adding tranny cooler soon as my speeds pick up and I ask even more from the car.
07-01-2010, 01:35 PM
#238
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I can post data logs of oil temp vs seconds in boost WITH an oil cooler. You keep the revs above 5k for more than 20 seconds and you will see oil temps climb regardless of what kind of cooler you've got. The larger the cooler, the harder you can push it without the engine getting too hot. I drive twisty roads back and forth each day to work, only 20 mins, in 3rd and 4th gear, at 15 psi, and my oil peak temp yesterday was 260 deg F. Peak coolant was 185. Peak trans was 200. Ambient air temp was 89 deg F. AIT was 75-90 degrees (running W/M).
07-01-2010, 06:31 PM
#239
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I am the first to admit that I know the least about this platform .... But I am well versed in the concept of motor longevity. My knowledge of oil coolers comes from indurance racing.
I am not telling anyone to run out and install 2..... But I am saying from experience and testing you need atleast one when running an FI car...I don't care what kind it is.....Matter of fact.... One of my NA cars comes with an oil cooler the size of a small IC.
Now why would a NA car need an oil cooler this size?? Because of it's ability to rev pass 9000rpms which builds heat.
Only you guys know how hard you drive your cars..... If you boost it on the road or at the track....I recommend one......get an oil temp gauge and test it without and then with and you can tell for yourself if you really need it. If you are in the high 200s after running it .....you need one!
When I first started running my race car in indurance races...... I had oil temp issues. Yes I had an oil cooler but it was not positioned correctly. I would have to change the oil at the mid point of the race because of the viscosity or lack of it. I had to baby the car to make the motor finish the race.
After repositioning the oil cooler and adding the proper ducting and a second cooler..... Temps dropped and i never had to change the oil during a race after that. No doubt I over built my G....but that's because of my experience in racing.....my motto is ..2 is better than one and 1 is better than none...also over building has never been the cause of a failed build.
Like I said before.... I am not saying that this was what caused Chris failure....but on his new build I would advise him to install it.....if an oil cooler is not used and you beat on your car..... I would change the oil more frequently .....Also, BAD POSITIONING OF THE OIL COOLER IS THE SAME AS NOT HAVING ONE!!! I have seen oil coolers on this website being installed in places which turns your oil cooler into an oil heater...
It's a proven fact that motor failure can be caused by high coolant or oil temps. Everyone knows that going FI you should upgrade your radiator if you plan on REALLY boosting it..... So why not add an oil cooler??? Is coolant temps more important than oil temps???Every upgrade on my car that some of you feel is over kill is installed because of my on track experience... I see how fast temps can climb when staying in boost for just a few seconds at high rpms!!Plus my G is way heavier than my track car which causes more stress.
I know most of you don't track your car....but getting on and off boost...boosting with AC on...sitting in traffic and then boosting out of traffic can recreate on track temps.
Ask yourself this question..... If a cars oil capacity is 2qt....and the capacity is increased to 4qts.... Would that alone help with cooling or increase the ability to protect the motor???
I am not telling anyone to run out and install 2..... But I am saying from experience and testing you need atleast one when running an FI car...I don't care what kind it is.....Matter of fact.... One of my NA cars comes with an oil cooler the size of a small IC.
Now why would a NA car need an oil cooler this size?? Because of it's ability to rev pass 9000rpms which builds heat.Only you guys know how hard you drive your cars..... If you boost it on the road or at the track....I recommend one......get an oil temp gauge and test it without and then with and you can tell for yourself if you really need it. If you are in the high 200s after running it .....you need one!
When I first started running my race car in indurance races...... I had oil temp issues. Yes I had an oil cooler but it was not positioned correctly. I would have to change the oil at the mid point of the race because of the viscosity or lack of it. I had to baby the car to make the motor finish the race.
After repositioning the oil cooler and adding the proper ducting and a second cooler..... Temps dropped and i never had to change the oil during a race after that. No doubt I over built my G....but that's because of my experience in racing.....my motto is ..2 is better than one and 1 is better than none...also over building has never been the cause of a failed build.
Like I said before.... I am not saying that this was what caused Chris failure....but on his new build I would advise him to install it.....if an oil cooler is not used and you beat on your car..... I would change the oil more frequently .....Also, BAD POSITIONING OF THE OIL COOLER IS THE SAME AS NOT HAVING ONE!!! I have seen oil coolers on this website being installed in places which turns your oil cooler into an oil heater...
It's a proven fact that motor failure can be caused by high coolant or oil temps. Everyone knows that going FI you should upgrade your radiator if you plan on REALLY boosting it..... So why not add an oil cooler??? Is coolant temps more important than oil temps???Every upgrade on my car that some of you feel is over kill is installed because of my on track experience... I see how fast temps can climb when staying in boost for just a few seconds at high rpms!!Plus my G is way heavier than my track car which causes more stress.
I know most of you don't track your car....but getting on and off boost...boosting with AC on...sitting in traffic and then boosting out of traffic can recreate on track temps.
Ask yourself this question..... If a cars oil capacity is 2qt....and the capacity is increased to 4qts.... Would that alone help with cooling or increase the ability to protect the motor???
Last edited by XKR; 07-02-2010 at 07:23 AM.
07-01-2010, 07:15 PM
#240
You were quoted more so because...I think you are just playing it safe with your comment and now this last one(but nothin personally against you btw)... but the "lets blame a diverse set of things" .... is what promotes lack of accountability and allows bad information to remain, and it just scared everybody into thinking this is some how the to be expected.... all too common of the community, and i understand there are friendships around but some are jsut over their head.
I dont care if you dont follow my posts, or if you want to fixiate on just spelling, and dont want not stick to the point i made about how easily people eat wrong information;... i made the point to look at other platforms, ie why i said the VQ must be on an alternate reality when.....so there is a lot of just "singing" to the choir....... and i am not saying this to create drama... but there simply is just a lot of bad assumptions and opinions that automatically get taken as fact....and i sarcastically(and bad spelling) pointed a few of them.
How on earth would the turbos cause the engine to fail similarly 3 different times, or how can you blame the weather... and not just beauce i live in az, but other builds in different states, and also w/ hot dry summer weather dont have that issue...
I am not quick to blame the vipec, because i dont want sheep movers to automaticall say i am jsut trashing it to favor the proefi..... but IMO for a standalone it apperently didnt provide adequate monitoring nor safety checks to detect the engine was givin up... the issue with the oil cooler is just that for how simple and innexpensive in the whole scheme of things, wasnt it suggested by any of the builders in either of the 3 tryes they had on the car already....considering some of the other unnecessary(some jsut because they are overkill or enver taken advantage) mods that cass paid for they couldnt suggest that.... maybe they didnt expect it to be an issue...which is understandable too, so it reinforces the thinking that that may not have been issue.
Cass build dream is hanging bya thread.... and its NOT HIS FAULT.... and its amazing that some people even hinted he may have had somethign to do.... well 4 times IMO excludes the driver/owner as the culprit... and it does bother me that people are just being to correct, too much preaching to choir....
and IMO the suggestion of going to a 2jz is ...bad... i dunno why would you want to switch to a "inferior" engine....
I dont care if you dont follow my posts, or if you want to fixiate on just spelling, and dont want not stick to the point i made about how easily people eat wrong information;... i made the point to look at other platforms, ie why i said the VQ must be on an alternate reality when.....so there is a lot of just "singing" to the choir....... and i am not saying this to create drama... but there simply is just a lot of bad assumptions and opinions that automatically get taken as fact....and i sarcastically(and bad spelling) pointed a few of them.
How on earth would the turbos cause the engine to fail similarly 3 different times, or how can you blame the weather... and not just beauce i live in az, but other builds in different states, and also w/ hot dry summer weather dont have that issue...
I am not quick to blame the vipec, because i dont want sheep movers to automaticall say i am jsut trashing it to favor the proefi..... but IMO for a standalone it apperently didnt provide adequate monitoring nor safety checks to detect the engine was givin up... the issue with the oil cooler is just that for how simple and innexpensive in the whole scheme of things, wasnt it suggested by any of the builders in either of the 3 tryes they had on the car already....considering some of the other unnecessary(some jsut because they are overkill or enver taken advantage) mods that cass paid for they couldnt suggest that.... maybe they didnt expect it to be an issue...which is understandable too, so it reinforces the thinking that that may not have been issue.
Cass build dream is hanging bya thread.... and its NOT HIS FAULT.... and its amazing that some people even hinted he may have had somethign to do.... well 4 times IMO excludes the driver/owner as the culprit... and it does bother me that people are just being to correct, too much preaching to choir....
and IMO the suggestion of going to a 2jz is ...bad... i dunno why would you want to switch to a "inferior" engine....
Last edited by djamps; 07-01-2010 at 07:18 PM.