I know that many of you have the ATI SC installed and most of you are not having problems with them.

Just so I can get a perspective on this product, please post how many miles you have put on your 350Z since you installed the ATI SC.

If you could, give your impressions of the performance of the kit, service, and reliability you have personally experienced. I want to know the pros and cons of the product.

I think a lot of time and debate has gone into the "Max & ATI" situation. At best it is questionable if that car was a fair representation of what to expect from a VQ35 motor converted from stock into an ATI kit car. Lets forget Max on this thread and focus on the rest of you ATI owners. I am getting a limited persective of this product based upon 3 blown up motors but there is a lot more of you with other experiences with the kit. Lets hear about your experiences?

Finally, if you had the option, would you buy this kit again and tell us why you feel that way.

Thanks, Jeff

 

I have just about 3000 miles on mine (8000 on the car) and it is great. No problems at all. Love the power. I have done two oil changes so far. Plan on doing them every 3500 or so when I do the engine oil (Redline).

 

the kit is wonderful. i have about 300 miles on it now and still have no problems. If anyone is interested, im planning to sell it for 4000... kit is in perfect condition, absolutely nothing wrong with it. reason im selling it is because im planning to get my new turbo kit soon.

 

I have about 7500 miles on mine........i had my #6 spark plug close on me, and narrowly escaped getting serious engine damage.......it was professionally installed and professionally tuned by a guy with 15+years experience at tuning hi-performance imports......the FMU on my car cannot be adjusted rich enough to eliminate detonation above 6K rpms........if i had it to do all over again, i wouldn't

 

EJ are you planning on running at the track anytime soon?

 

2800 miles, installed and tuned by me and running strong as ever. If I could do it over would I, hell yeah.

 

you wouldnt? to much of a headache?

 

Well, not until i take the Procharger off at least......i can't run it above 6Krpms without getting detonation, and i usually shift right before redline

It's too damn scary.......everytime i run up past 5Krpms, i sh*t my pants.......and too much R&D too.....this kit is advertised as 100% complete, but it's not.......not if you want your engine to stay alive

 

Just wondering, which Turbo kit are you getting? Can you explain your reason for going turbo? Is it more about the advantages of the turbo or the disadvantages of the SC?

Something seems odd, to say I have 300 miles on it and still no problems seems to imply the expectation of this kit is 1-2 tanks full of gas before problems occur. In addition, it seems you must be disappointed in it to sell it 300 miles after being installed. I am sure you knew turbo kits were just around the corner, it has been the topic of dozens of threads thus it does not make since to install a SC and then 300 miles later, spend thousands of dollars more to change it to another FI system.

Jeff

 

there is absolutely nothing wrong with the kit.... it is in perfect i mean perfect condition. i love the kit, its fast *** H#LL. Planning on getting a custom turbo kit later down the line. not sure which one as of now. might bring my car to signal auto and get there custom hks setup. but if anyone is interested in this kit let me know. its still on my car as of right now, so if anyone is interested pm me and cruise on by and check it out for urself.

 

I have put over 2K miles on the kit and have taken it to the track once. The kit is perfect IMO with the exception of two things.
1. I agree with EJ. A reflashed ECU would work better than the FMU. There is some slight detenation over 6K on occation
2. The sound is a little louder than I would like at idle.

Would I buy again? Yes in a heartbeat. This kit transforms the car. If I hadn't planned on going FI on this car I would have bever bought it. A stock Z is too slow for me.

 

Another EA novel of a post, but I feel it's worth the read.

Has anyone ever tried a lower boost pulley? Just asking cause I haven't

I have done three installs on friends cars, and all are still on the road, and daily driven, no issues. Using a FJO wideband that I had, I did the tune while on the road. Along with a Naviagtor to watch the FJO. I just left the wires to the FMU a little long, and rested it in the pass seat. Once I felt the tune was safe I shortened the wires, and mounted the EFMU. 91 or 92 octane gas always used. Sorry I don't know the miles on them.

I personally don't think that the detonation most are facing is a amount of fuel issue. Because I know those EFMUs are capable of turning the pressure up to over 125psi ( I did that on accident, and watched the needed sweep past 100) The injectors in these cars operate fine over 80psi. Cause that did raise some concerns when I was first helping installing these. I called a company that does injector flow testing, and gave them the part numbers, and style of the injector. And I was told not to worry. Sorry I didn't get anymore details other then that.

All the cars that I have done I set each car different as far as the scaler setting goes. And thus ended up with way different settings for each of the sliders on all three cars. (So proof that showing eachother different settings might not be the best idea.) I did this because I tailored each car to the way I felt it best fit each car and the mods they had other then the blower. IE: One car was stone stock. Another had full headers, test pipes, Nismo muffler, etc. There are so many variables to even the cars I did, that it shows if your car isn't 100% stock, and your going to change the factory ATI settings. You need to understand fully what the FMU does, and how it does it. Your tuner needs to also know 100%

The guy that I aided installing of the kit on that has headers, is wanting to go to higher boost pulleys. But, I have yet to tell him that I think it's a good idea. The headers, and cat back in "theory" should lower the EGS's lower then stock due to the decreased back pressure, and lower over all boost number (due to lack of back pressure) But you have to remember that you are dealing with a car that has High compression, pump gas, and no way to control timing. This gets me to my next point....

From what I have experienced with these cars, is that right before the shift, the timing seems to rapidly increase to help smooth the transition to the next gear. This also increases the amount of heat in the combustion chamber, and can lead to detonation. I'm not saying it's bad that it increases, just that it doesn't seem to follow a linear curve, but rather more like a "j" I could be 100% wrong in this, but I have no way of seeing what the computer is doing. And I doubt I ever will, since I don't have the means to. I was relaying more on the "Butt Dyno" to come to that conclusion as well as other reasons. Maybe a computer tuner will come on here, and shed some light.

Say you are doing a dyno pull on these cars, most of the time tuners are looking for a flat A/F curve. But sometimes that is not always what is needed. You need to also take timing and cyln pressure into consideration. On a typical F/I car 12.0-12.5 A/F is a great number to keep all the way to Redline, and be safe. But......... it seems these 350z's that I have done, make more power around 11.2-11.7 A/F. But there is more to it then just that..... Say you are doing a pull on the dyno. From 4000-6500 the heat in the combustion chamber is always increasing. As you are adding boost, you are adding cyln. pressure. Increasing Heat, Cyln Presure, and Timing all playing a factor. Even if you forget about the Fuel for a moment...

One car I did notice some knock around 6200 RPM. So you would think "just add fuel" But... I started to think about the timing, and heat being created. When tuning a cars RPM range you to "look" where a car has "been", "is", and "going" in the Fuel/ timing maps. Since none of us can see into a 350Z computer, I had to do my best guess. I started thinking where the car "was" right before the knock happened. I came to the conclusion that if I added extra fuel early, I could cool the combusion chamber a little before it started getting to the point it was detonating. If the temp was lowered early it would carry that lower temp through the rest of the RPM range...past the point where it detonated the first time. And maybe with the slightly lower temp in the chamber, it might make it past the point where it detonated. What do you know, it worked... as I did a long pull in 5th gear the A/F dipped to 10.7 just for a mater of seconds, and then came back to the 11 range, and never had an issue rattling or detonating.

Now the way I did this was by using the scaler dial I could get the last slider to come on right at the point I wanted it to be the richest. Then I made that last slider have the biggest gap of them all. It caused a dip in the A/F like I wanted, and then since the Fuel press wasn't going to increase anymore, the cars a/f started to level off rigth to redline.

The reason why I am stating all this, is that for the people that are going to add bigger injectors, I don't think it's going to solve anything unless you can also take some timing out of the car. If you can't do that, then you might want to try what worked for me with the early enrichment. If injectors alone are swapped, I feel pretty confident that you will just be at the same point you were with the FMU. The FMU isn't maxed out, the injectors aren't maxed out, why change them? Other then to get rid of the FMU and simplfy the system, but it might not cure the issue. Unless there is more Timing/ Fuel map tuning done.
Think about it, if you are adding more and more and more fuel and going lower then 10.5 A/F and still getting detonation, THE AMOUNT FUEL is NOT the issue. Timing, Octane, quality of gas, plus others need to be looked at.

I know that the JoTech Twin Turbo is using the EFMU also, so I don't think if it was such a bad unit them they would be using it. I know I am pretty confident in it. Actually after figuring it all out, and playing with it...and understanding how it works. I think it's a pretty slick idea that Aeromotive had.

Also think about this, in some areas sell gas that has 10% ethanol, or even some places sell gas that is oxygenated! Think about that..... they all might say 91 on the pump or better. But does the make them the same? This going to be a factor on all F/I cars no matter what kit, brand, or type. This is something people with High HP street cars that have F/I have to take into consideration when they travel. For example I had a car for a while that made around 600 RWHP, it was a blast to drive but was on the ragged edge as far as fuel was concerened. When I would go on long trips somtimes I could only get 91 octane (92 Amaco was always used other times) Once it had a tank of 91 in it, there was NO getting past 5,500 RPM with out hearing it rattle. So you would think that just that small difference from 91 to 92 wouldn't matter. But oh my did it ever, I just had to be carfull not to keep my foot into it to long.

I am not saying this to scare anyone, or to say that F/I on a 350z is a bad idea. Just showing that even if the car is "tuned" there are factors that change everyday that can lead to problems, and some of those are out of your hands and left to trust..... like octane of the gas you pump.


EA

****These are just what I have found to work for ME, please don't try to duplicate what I said, unless you are on a Dyno, have a Wide band, and are 100% confident.****

 

TheSVTKid:

Thanks for the post. Interesting points made and I am digesting it all.

A friend of mine that teaches automotives recently went to the Honda training center here in Ca. They told him that within 5 years, independant repair shops would basically be unable to work on the newer cars due to Scanners needed but only availible to a dealer, ECU's etc. I have been told that the new VW bug cannot be restarted if you replace the battery without taking it to the dealer to be reprogramed.

The point of all of this is our Z's have the newest generation of ECU's Nissan has. The basics of how an engine works are still the same of course but the way it is adjusted is not. Aftermarket products and tuners are facing problems in being able to control simple things like how rich a car runs now. It seems to me the everyone is playing catch up. I am sure the dealers love it that only they can adjust certain aspects of the car.

 

Excellent post SVTKid, very informative

The only thing i disagree with isn't even a disagreement really.....it's just that the JoTech deal is a combination of the DFMU and an ECM reflash.......at least that's where they were at the last time i spoke to them on the phone

 

Elektrik: Thanks for the info, I was unaware of that. Thats great that they got into the computer and have a safe tune that supports that much HP. I hope there are more options in the near future for that! Wonder why they still used the DFMU then? Hmmm maybe time will tell. But thanks for the correction, I was unaware.

EA

 

my executive summary:

even tuned, you may experience slight detonation at high rpm
/ high load (due A/F variability and advanced timing at high rpm
with stock ecu).

here's my experience:

1. when I heard of potential problems with ATI if not tuned
properly, I went straight to a dyno and got tuning after install.
That should have made me feel safe.

2. during the tuning session, I saw how the fmu sometimes
would shift the A/F ratio graph +/- 1, even with unchanged
settings. Tuner gave possible reasons but my conclusion is
that, even tuned, the fmu allows too much variability (doesn't
matter what is at fault, it could be a ecu/fmu feedback crap,
whatever). I still worried (bad gas, hot conditions, etc).

3. adding gauges are good to see things are as expected,
but they won't help you should something suddenly change
/ go bad. I think we need a computer that can (a) constantly
monitor for detonation (either signs of temporary problem or sudden
change in component functionality), (b) instantaneously detune
engine to offset problem, (c) notify driver of problem (who might
be listening to music or conversing with cute passenger)...

I'm reading this forum in hopes of someone finding a better
solution for number 3, but enough talk. You CAN do something
about it. Try TS ECU to remove timing. Try TS ECU to control
bigger injectors with better consistency. Try Apexi SAFC 2. Try
a timing retard under boost solution like Vortech has (or even
better by adding knock sensing for engine retard, stock retard
is not good enough with boost).

The problems and possible solutions have been talked about
enough (IMHO). It's time for us owners to try things and post
to help others (like the TS ECU solution posted recently).

In the meantime, I've taken action to install an automatic
warning method and will be installing timing/detonation control
(as soon as I get the damn unit, damn slow order processing,
argh...). If it works, I'll post of course. That alone should make
the ATI kit as safe, if not safer, than vortech's simple timing
retard. The ati kit still has an advantage over vortech because
of it's self contained oil system.

ps. I only have 400 miles on the ATI because I'm trying to keep
miles low until I feel comfortable with it (4k miles total)...

 

Jesse and Need: You guys were going back and forth about a month or so ago, about a failsafe thingy to cut boost if a lean condition was detected. You were posting schematics and everything. Did that ever come to fruition?

Remember, like I have said, IF YOU BUILD IT, I WILL BUY! (my apologies to "Field of Dreams")

 

Well, my pulley problem derailed the project temporarily. I've got most of the parts, and I'm actually going down tomorrow to look for the rest of the parts. Hopefully, I'll have an operating prototype within a week or two.

 

I know some maxima guys with the VQ30DE engine and Stillen S/Cer use the J & S Safeguard Boost referenced timing retard unit since they don't have much aftermarket support ECU wise.

IF this system works with our cars it would be a GREAT way to control timing during ever changing conditions (octane, temp, etc.).

Check it out here:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com/

 

great post, very informative

Thanks Guys!