HPX alternative??
10-27-2010, 11:54 AM
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HPX alternative??
SO apparently JWT is a pull through vs a blow by system so the HPX air flow meter cant read it right on all parameters. only way to combat this would be to convert the system to blowby or change out AFM.
Well I found out today the HPX closed down shop. SO I wanted to see what you other guys are running?? Any good alternatives??
... I may have the blowby Vs. pull through backwards if I do please correct me
Well I found out today the HPX closed down shop. SO I wanted to see what you other guys are running?? Any good alternatives??
... I may have the blowby Vs. pull through backwards if I do please correct me
10-27-2010, 02:50 PM
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thanks!
Now what about now that they arent made anymore?? I have a friend thinking about going FI on her Z any suggestions what she should get to use for tuning??
Now what about now that they arent made anymore?? I have a friend thinking about going FI on her Z any suggestions what she should get to use for tuning??
10-27-2010, 03:37 PM
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enlarging the housing wouldn't allow that would it??
10-27-2010, 04:49 PM
#6
You would need a new calibration curve but theoretically you may be able to bring the airflow into range of the stock MAF by reducing the airflow to it somehow, such as enlarging the housing. Or you could try to find a MAF from a different application - I seem to recall folks using a MAF from a Ford Lightning. All this trouble if you really insist on not moving to MAP...
Last edited by rcdash; 10-27-2010 at 04:51 PM.
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10-27-2010, 04:58 PM
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o ok thanks!! well I am gonna leave it as is since its working fine for now. Just wanted to see if there were other options out there!!
If I have any problems I will do what you suggested str8dum1 and relocated with the part from sam
If I have any problems I will do what you suggested str8dum1 and relocated with the part from sam
10-27-2010, 08:05 PM
#10
So they don't make the HPX PMAS MAF's anymore?
SO apparently JWT is a pull through vs a blow by system so the HPX air flow meter cant read it right on all parameters. only way to combat this would be to convert the system to blowby or change out AFM.
Well I found out today the HPX closed down shop. SO I wanted to see what you other guys are running?? Any good alternatives??
... I may have the blowby Vs. pull through backwards if I do please correct me
Well I found out today the HPX closed down shop. SO I wanted to see what you other guys are running?? Any good alternatives??
... I may have the blowby Vs. pull through backwards if I do please correct me
10-28-2010, 05:22 AM
#11
I think an enlarged MAF housing would work for some but not everyone....for example my kit retains the stock MAF housing so it's no big deal, an enlarged one could pop right on. But for other kits where the MAF bung is welded right onto the intake pipe, that's gonna be a pain in the ****.
Luckily the HR doesn't need upgraded MAFs to the best of my knowledge.
Last edited by djamps; 10-28-2010 at 05:24 AM.
10-28-2010, 11:22 AM
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from what was told to me one of the partners decided to leave and the other one who knows what he is doing.
Uprev is over 20 orders deep and no word if they will get any of them.
frank and frank at hills are working on a solution right now. I talked to him this morning. they found a MAF that fits and is the right wiring to work with our cars and they are trying to write there own ??schematics?? for it so they can plug it in flash it and it will work like stock then perform thier tuning from there... all in the works no results yet thats just there idea since they have not been able to find anyone else that makes one for our cars.
Weird, I didn't know it would cause limp mode. Well Uprev better find another vendor/solution because that pretty much means no more Uprev FI tuning on the DE. I bought my HPX direct from Uprev.
I think an enlarged MAF housing would work for some but not everyone....for example my kit retains the stock MAF housing so it's no big deal, an enlarged one could pop right on. But for other kits where the MAF bung is welded right onto the intake pipe, that's gonna be a pain in the ****.
Luckily the HR doesn't need upgraded MAFs to the best of my knowledge.
I think an enlarged MAF housing would work for some but not everyone....for example my kit retains the stock MAF housing so it's no big deal, an enlarged one could pop right on. But for other kits where the MAF bung is welded right onto the intake pipe, that's gonna be a pain in the ****.
Luckily the HR doesn't need upgraded MAFs to the best of my knowledge.
frank and frank at hills are working on a solution right now. I talked to him this morning. they found a MAF that fits and is the right wiring to work with our cars and they are trying to write there own ??schematics?? for it so they can plug it in flash it and it will work like stock then perform thier tuning from there... all in the works no results yet thats just there idea since they have not been able to find anyone else that makes one for our cars.
10-28-2010, 01:05 PM
#13
from what was told to me one of the partners decided to leave and the other one who knows what he is doing.
Uprev is over 20 orders deep and no word if they will get any of them.
frank and frank at hills are working on a solution right now. I talked to him this morning. they found a MAF that fits and is the right wiring to work with our cars and they are trying to write there own ??schematics?? for it so they can plug it in flash it and it will work like stock then perform thier tuning from there... all in the works no results yet thats just there idea since they have not been able to find anyone else that makes one for our cars.
Uprev is over 20 orders deep and no word if they will get any of them.
frank and frank at hills are working on a solution right now. I talked to him this morning. they found a MAF that fits and is the right wiring to work with our cars and they are trying to write there own ??schematics?? for it so they can plug it in flash it and it will work like stock then perform thier tuning from there... all in the works no results yet thats just there idea since they have not been able to find anyone else that makes one for our cars.
I also heard that Technosquare could modify the OEM MAF to handle more flow. I'm pretty sure it was some kind of wiring mod.
So putting 1 and 1 together, Shouldn't be too hard to reverse engineer the HPX or hack the OEM MAF... maybe Frank could hire an EE guy?? (hint, me!! LOL)
/Me hopes my HPX never fails...
Last edited by djamps; 10-28-2010 at 01:08 PM.
10-28-2010, 06:21 PM
#15
Location of the MAF has nothing to do with it's flow capability. Given the same diameter housing, the MAF sensor voltage will max out at the same mass flow rate whether it's before or after the turbos. In fact it's better to have it before the turbo's just like JWT designed it for several reasons:
Look at every OEM system out there - the MAF is the first thing in the intake tract - before the turbos.
You could in theory put the stock MAF in a larger housing and then use Osiris to create a new MAF transfer function to predict airflow from MAF voltage, but that's not a very easy thing to tune without a flowbench I presume. And even if you doubled the cross section of the pipe, you would only double the flow capacity - so maybe it could handle 600 hp instead of 300. But then again there are probably other fluid dynamic factors to consider as tubing size gets larger, and at some point the airflow will be so low at low load/rpm that accuracy of the readings would suffer - maybe that's why you don't see people sticking the stock MAF sensor in a 5" housing LOL.
- If there is any blowby from the PVC or the turbos, it won't coat the MAF in oil.
- It lets you have a proper PCV setup.
- It provides more even flow because the limited amount of pipe in front of the MAF does not create a fully developed (parabolic) flow cross section so the sensor readings are more accurate. A lot of times you will see a honeycomb or mesh screen in front of the MAF for this exact reason - to redistribute the flow in the pipe to make the air velocity more consistent across the entire cross-section of the pipe.
Look at every OEM system out there - the MAF is the first thing in the intake tract - before the turbos.
You could in theory put the stock MAF in a larger housing and then use Osiris to create a new MAF transfer function to predict airflow from MAF voltage, but that's not a very easy thing to tune without a flowbench I presume. And even if you doubled the cross section of the pipe, you would only double the flow capacity - so maybe it could handle 600 hp instead of 300. But then again there are probably other fluid dynamic factors to consider as tubing size gets larger, and at some point the airflow will be so low at low load/rpm that accuracy of the readings would suffer - maybe that's why you don't see people sticking the stock MAF sensor in a 5" housing LOL.
Last edited by mx594; 10-28-2010 at 06:30 PM.
10-28-2010, 07:37 PM
#16
Location of the MAF has nothing to do with it's flow capability. Given the same diameter housing, the MAF sensor voltage will max out at the same mass flow rate whether it's before or after the turbos. In fact it's better to have it before the turbo's just like JWT designed it for several reasons:
Look at every OEM system out there - the MAF is the first thing in the intake tract - before the turbos.
You could in theory put the stock MAF in a larger housing and then use Osiris to create a new MAF transfer function to predict airflow from MAF voltage, but that's not a very easy thing to tune without a flowbench I presume. And even if you doubled the cross section of the pipe, you would only double the flow capacity - so maybe it could handle 600 hp instead of 300. But then again there are probably other fluid dynamic factors to consider as tubing size gets larger, and at some point the airflow will be so low at low load/rpm that accuracy of the readings would suffer - maybe that's why you don't see people sticking the stock MAF sensor in a 5" housing LOL.
- If there is any blowby from the PVC or the turbos, it won't coat the MAF in oil.
- It lets you have a proper PCV setup.
- It provides more even flow because the limited amount of pipe in front of the MAF does not create a fully developed (parabolic) flow cross section so the sensor readings are more accurate. A lot of times you will see a honeycomb or mesh screen in front of the MAF for this exact reason - to redistribute the flow in the pipe to make the air velocity more consistent across the entire cross-section of the pipe.
Look at every OEM system out there - the MAF is the first thing in the intake tract - before the turbos.
You could in theory put the stock MAF in a larger housing and then use Osiris to create a new MAF transfer function to predict airflow from MAF voltage, but that's not a very easy thing to tune without a flowbench I presume. And even if you doubled the cross section of the pipe, you would only double the flow capacity - so maybe it could handle 600 hp instead of 300. But then again there are probably other fluid dynamic factors to consider as tubing size gets larger, and at some point the airflow will be so low at low load/rpm that accuracy of the readings would suffer - maybe that's why you don't see people sticking the stock MAF sensor in a 5" housing LOL.
Compressed and pressurized air has a higher density and has a greater mass than the inlet air going into the compressor. So by defination the measured mass of air will be much greater if measure post turbo, vs pre turbo.
It's a common practice to run pull through setups to improve the range of an OEM sensor. Larger diameter MAF housing is another way.
Last edited by Sharif@Forged; 10-28-2010 at 07:40 PM.
10-30-2010, 05:52 PM
#18
Some of what you are saying is not correct.
Compressed and pressurized air has a higher density and has a greater mass than the inlet air going into the compressor. So by defination the measured mass of air will be much greater if measure post turbo, vs pre turbo.
It's a common practice to run pull through setups to improve the range of an OEM sensor. Larger diameter MAF housing is another way.
Compressed and pressurized air has a higher density and has a greater mass than the inlet air going into the compressor. So by defination the measured mass of air will be much greater if measure post turbo, vs pre turbo.
It's a common practice to run pull through setups to improve the range of an OEM sensor. Larger diameter MAF housing is another way.
But the air being drawn in the intake has a higher velocity so even though it is less dense, the mass flow rate will be the same. As long as no air is added to the system (i.e. a non-recirculated BOV) the mass of air entering the intake equals the amount of air entering the engine.
Correct me if am wrong but isn't mass flow rate exactly what hot wire MAF sensors are designed to do? In that case, it wouldn't matter what the density of the air is because that is one of the variables that determines mass flow rate.
Last edited by mx594; 10-30-2010 at 06:00 PM.
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