How many motors blown due to Procharger?
11-25-2003, 09:18 PM
#185
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Daking350 create a list of current ATI SC owners that is over 25 people at this point. To take that list and create useful information for all of us, I made a poll that asks "Please state if your SC kit is trouble free or not in this poll".
Hopefully this poll will actually define what is the percentage of problems occuring and end the debate of if the problems are occuring frequently or just with a few owners.
Jeff - zland
Hopefully this poll will actually define what is the percentage of problems occuring and end the debate of if the problems are occuring frequently or just with a few owners.
Jeff - zland
12-01-2003, 07:47 AM
#186
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Everyone:
There is a group buy on a 3 gauge pod on the A column for the Z. I am looking for the thread that list all the current ATI owners so we can ask them if they want to buy one. Does anyone remember that name of the thread that lists the ATI owners?
Thanks, Jeff -zland
There is a group buy on a 3 gauge pod on the A column for the Z. I am looking for the thread that list all the current ATI owners so we can ask them if they want to buy one. Does anyone remember that name of the thread that lists the ATI owners?
Thanks, Jeff -zland
12-01-2003, 08:56 AM
#188
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Originally posted by zland
The ATI kit has only been out a couple of months. There is still some R&D being done on fuel management. What is not 100% reliable now may become reilable in 3 months once the details are worked out. In addition, there are more FI kits coming to market. To say FI is not reliable is premature. All products go through this typ of cycle. You cannot judge the SC kits reliability without seeing them come out first thus how could you know the reilability of a Vortch or DW SC tight now?
Same thing, I cannot confirm hp gain of a NA product until it is dyno'ed
The ATI kit has only been out a couple of months. There is still some R&D being done on fuel management. What is not 100% reliable now may become reilable in 3 months once the details are worked out. In addition, there are more FI kits coming to market. To say FI is not reliable is premature. All products go through this typ of cycle. You cannot judge the SC kits reliability without seeing them come out first thus how could you know the reilability of a Vortch or DW SC tight now?
Same thing, I cannot confirm hp gain of a NA product until it is dyno'ed
12-01-2003, 09:39 AM
#189
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Originally posted by zland
The ATI kit has only been out a couple of months. There is still some R&D being done on fuel management. What is not 100% reliable now may become reilable in 3 months once the details are worked out. In addition, there are more FI kits coming to market. To say FI is not reliable is premature. All products go through this typ of cycle. You cannot judge the SC kits reliability without seeing them come out first thus how could you know the reilability of a Vortch or DW SC tight now?
Same thing, I cannot confirm hp gain of a NA product until it is dyno'ed
The ATI kit has only been out a couple of months. There is still some R&D being done on fuel management. What is not 100% reliable now may become reilable in 3 months once the details are worked out. In addition, there are more FI kits coming to market. To say FI is not reliable is premature. All products go through this typ of cycle. You cannot judge the SC kits reliability without seeing them come out first thus how could you know the reilability of a Vortch or DW SC tight now?
Same thing, I cannot confirm hp gain of a NA product until it is dyno'ed
it is not an ATI problem... it is a forced induction problem. after reading many threads, and PMing with multiple ATI owners (you know who you all are). i have come to this understanding:
some of the kits have/had problems because of installation and/or tuning. the main perp. here is the fuel system. this piece needs to be installed a particular way, which is not very clear in the instructions... first, you need an inline pump with no check valve... second, you need to install a check valve parallel to the pump, with the "flow" side pointing in the same direction as the pump...
missing any of these points, and you will not have reliable fuel delivery. this could lead to bad tuning... or you could just have crappy tuning done in general.
the main cause of concern for all ATI owners should be the lack of timing control released with the kit. do you know you are running 28 degrees of advanced timing at redline with 7+ lbs of boost? that is a disaster waiting to happen...
my suggestion is to control your timing. i got mine down to 16 deg total at redline, and my a/f is less than 12, and my EGTs are fine.
please note i did not blame ati... i think they should step up though... same reason why greddy is locking the emanage maps to run only to 5.x lbs... they have no way of controlling timing either in their kit. this is also why stillen guys complain of pinging... their roots type build boost way early, as opposed to ATI, which is max boost at redline...
12-01-2003, 11:31 AM
#191
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yah, maybe the problem originated from the car being not FI
friendly, but once you start selling a "reliable" FI kit then it
becomes your problem...
lower the boost, add timing retard, whatever, but it's the seller's
problem to solve (if they are going to claim "reliable")...
my 2 cents...
friendly, but once you start selling a "reliable" FI kit then it
becomes your problem...
lower the boost, add timing retard, whatever, but it's the seller's
problem to solve (if they are going to claim "reliable")...
my 2 cents...
12-01-2003, 11:45 AM
#192
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Originally posted by SKiDaZZLe
the main cause of concern for all ATI owners should be the lack of timing control released with the kit. do you know you are running 28 degrees of advanced timing at redline with 7+ lbs of boost? that is a disaster waiting to happen...
my suggestion is to control your timing. i got mine down to 16 deg total at redline, and my a/f is less than 12, and my EGTs are fine.
please note i did not blame ati... i think they should step up though... same reason why greddy is locking the emanage maps to run only to 5.x lbs... they have no way of controlling timing either in their kit. this is also why stillen guys complain of pinging... their roots type build boost way early, as opposed to ATI, which is max boost at redline...
the main cause of concern for all ATI owners should be the lack of timing control released with the kit. do you know you are running 28 degrees of advanced timing at redline with 7+ lbs of boost? that is a disaster waiting to happen...
my suggestion is to control your timing. i got mine down to 16 deg total at redline, and my a/f is less than 12, and my EGTs are fine.
please note i did not blame ati... i think they should step up though... same reason why greddy is locking the emanage maps to run only to 5.x lbs... they have no way of controlling timing either in their kit. this is also why stillen guys complain of pinging... their roots type build boost way early, as opposed to ATI, which is max boost at redline...
If Vortech owners have much fewer problems, we might have the answer, if not, well back to the drawing board!
Jeff - zland
Last edited by zland; 12-01-2003 at 02:41 PM.
12-01-2003, 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by zland
I dont know if you realize it but what you are suggesting ATI owners to do is what Vortech is promising they have already done on their SC kit released this week. I guess we will see if timing is really the issue because the Vortech is much like the ATI except for it is set to retard the timing as the RPM's increase.
If Vortech owners have much ferwer problesm, we might have the answer, if not, well back to the drawing board!
Jeff - zland
I dont know if you realize it but what you are suggesting ATI owners to do is what Vortech is promising they have already done on their SC kit released this week. I guess we will see if timing is really the issue because the Vortech is much like the ATI except for it is set to retard the timing as the RPM's increase.
If Vortech owners have much ferwer problesm, we might have the answer, if not, well back to the drawing board!
Jeff - zland
06-13-2005, 05:20 AM
#198
Did you install a J & S Safeguard &/or have the ECU reflashed? Or did you run it out of the box? Sorry for your loss & all the questions. We just want to learn as much as we could from this experience as well.
Thanks,
Jeff
Thanks,
Jeff
Originally Posted by richsrq
It was the stock motor. I took it straight to the dyno after the install and had it dynoed rich and safe. The motor lasted 3 weeks.
06-13-2005, 05:21 AM
#199
Holy ancient thread! 
IMHO, any amount of boost, on 91-93 octane is unsafe on a stock CR motor without some timing retard. The procharger doesnt have provisions for timing retard, so I consider it an unsafe kit out of the box. Same goes for the Greddy kit. With the Greddy kit, its as easy as install the ignition harness to retard timing. Or you can use the J&S system to accomplish the same thing.
IMHO, any amount of boost, on 91-93 octane is unsafe on a stock CR motor without some timing retard. The procharger doesnt have provisions for timing retard, so I consider it an unsafe kit out of the box. Same goes for the Greddy kit. With the Greddy kit, its as easy as install the ignition harness to retard timing. Or you can use the J&S system to accomplish the same thing.
06-13-2005, 11:47 AM
#200
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I did not use the J&S Safeguard or anything else to play with timing. The setting from Procharger was set pig rich. It was leaned out a bit but still on the rich side. I had one the first few prochargers out so there was not that much research out yet. I since went with the Greddy kit with the ignition harness. Rich