I totally agree... I would like to see a boosted LS swap though as something new.

Hopefully we start to see more people start to venture for that 4digit build

 

^ Some valid points. But also a sad commentary on the motivation, demands, and complacency of the VQ community IMO. It's sad that we're on the verge of 2011 and the number of 1000+whp builds can still be counted on one hand. The same can be said for the number of 9 second cars. And there aren't many more cars in the 800whp or 10 second range either. Hell... It's embarassing that a G still hasn't gone into the 10's yet. By now there should be more than one unibody Z or G in the 8's too. Granted... not everybody wants (or can afford) a 1000+whp drag car. But I expected there would be a lot more 700+whp and sub-11 second Z's and G's by now. I really expected that the VQ community at large would follow in the footsteps of the 2JZ community. I was optimistic that the Z/G would equal and might eventually surpass the accomplishments of the Supra both on the dyno and at the drag strip (especially as shops w/ accomplished histories on the 2JZ started to get involved with the VQ). But alas, we still have a long way to go.

Either at the shop or at car shows & meets or on forums & magazines, I have rarely seen a Mark IV Supra with less than 700+whp. A sub-700whp "build" isn't even thread worthy over on supraforums. Instead... we have an FI section riddled (I would say polluted) with "build threads" (many by shops) proudly touting/showcasing sub-600whp cars as some major accomplishment and in conjunction we have a community in which 99% of the FI guys are complacently (some arrogantly) rolling around with 400-600whp VQ's... a power level which is commonplace on most 4-cylinder platforms with practically half the displacement (including those Honda/Acura guys with motors that came NA from the factory). Given the amount of years that this platform has been in existance and relative to the FI accomplishments of other platforms, the VQ has fallen short of its potential and should be farther along IMO. Bottom line: FI in the VQ community has been weaksauce in comparison to other platforms ...and it's reflected in the FI secion of my350z.


That explains the short term and immediate present, but not why the FI section of my350z has been in steady decline for a long period of time now. I have acknowledged that the crappy economy is partially to blame. But our community has also been held back by:

1. numerous shops who are better at marketing, self promotion, and forum politics than they are at building and/or tuning high power FI cars.
2. the clueless nuthuggers of those shops.
3. a lack of competent DIY'ers who fab their own FI setups.
4. a demographic that has largely consisted of NOOBS to FI and the performance aftermarket in general with no prior high power FI experience on other platforms.
5. a forum culture on my350z (particularly in the FI section) that has a chronic problem of wearing blinders and living in a VQ glass bubble.

The Supra platform was no longer in production and was just as expensive to modify (if not more so) at the time their community was thriving with new innovation and accomplishments.

As for the new EFR turbos... several other forums on other platforms, both import & domestic/factory NA & FI, have already started threads and been discussing the topic since SEMA. It seems to be making a buzz everywhere else. Why not here on my350z? Why are the VQ guys consistently the last ones to hop on the bus when something new and innovative is introduced to the aftermarket industry at large? A turbine that's 50% lighter than comparably sized inconel wheels is nothing to scoff at or be dismissive about. It's sad and disappointing to see such a lack of enthusiasm and anticipation here on our forum.

 

Snyperz is turbocharged and making over 700whp on his LS2.

 

Your numbered points are spot on Rude.

 

Both. Look at the Honda/Acura guys. They've been pushing 4-digit whp numbers for several years now and 500-600whp isn't extaordinarily rare on their street driven cars. And they're doing it with small displacement 4-cylinder motors that were never developed or designed from the factory to be FI and weren't pushing more than 200hp at the crank in stock form.

 

Happy Holidays to you too Chris! (Sorry I didn't get to respond to your greeting in the other thread.)

I hope 2011 is a good year for both of us with our cars and that your persistence in rebuilding your Z finally pays the dividends you had hoped for.

 

Yeah, this place has become a boring and stale cyberland of redundancy and mediocrity for the most part. The first page of the FI section has often been filled with...

• new thread. different Z or G. different username. same old redundant and unremarkable sub-600whp "build" with the same old FI kits and components that features nothing significant or unique from the dozens of similar builds that proceeded it.
• new thread. same old technical support questions that get asked over and over again.
• new thread. new NOOB. same old topics and stupid questions. same old laziness and failure to use the search function. same old expectations for the rest of us to spoon feed them the answers they seek anyway.

 

LOL Why single out PowerLab? Most of the turbo kit manufacturers for the VQ don't offer more than one brand of turbo and also haven't recently offered new versions of their kits ...nor have they tried to resell one that requires additional fabrication and isn't a bolt-on install. Does that mean we should assume that those companies have no further interest in the VQ motor either?

We discovered a long time ago on my car that the Precision 6262 was not a direct drop-in fitment option on the kit. The piping had to be modified. Would I like to see PowerLab offer versions of their kit with Precision billet turbos? HELL YES!!! (And I've voiced my opinion to Intense about it on more than one occasion) ...But the same could also be said for the other brands of kits out there as well that don't currently offer Precision turbos as an option.

PowerLab made a decision that it would be best (and prudent) if both the twin 37R and the single 76S systems were done only in house at Intense due to the tighter fitment tolerances (compared to other kits and the standard PowerLab kit) and custom fabrication involved to install those setups. If you really wanted the 76S kit, you could have shipped your car to Intense for the install.

 

All I offer is te Precision line of billet turbos on my ST kits. You can get either the 6265 or the 6765. Both come (as does the kit) with the T4 housings.

 

BTW... My build includes ProEFI 128 unit with E85 flex fuel and I intend to share my results with the community.

 

Sasha,

You have been one of the positive exceptions on here and I commend you for that.

BTW... Perhaps I missed it during my absence... but have you or any of your customers maxed out your kit yet with either turbo? If so, what were the numbers? I'm particularly interested to see how the 6765 performs on high boost.

 

i can see it both ways.

on one end, there are kits that are proven, and dont require much if any modifications. i've witnessed what these kits are capable of. im on a standard greddy kit with upgraded 60-1's and coated manifolds, which is enough for me.

on the other hand, i can understand how it seems to be a lack of creativity going on here with hardly any custom kits being made by your average person/not a shop or company. i noticed alot on the evo forums, many people making there own parts.

because everything on a vq is very compact and tight, it makes sense how much custom fabrication is required to get things to fit. not to mention money, which seems to be the biggest factor.

i have noticed alot of creativity here, but on the same note, if it costs just as much or more to make your own kit as opposed to a tested and proven setup, then why spend the time and money when its already been done?

i guess im on the fence about it. while i personally would piece together a setup, i know the requirements where alot of people dont. most people dont factor in just how much time and how costly it is to even make intercooler piping.

i currently have quamens old single turbo setup on my track car, and that is a custom one off piece of art. and after seeing the time and dedication he has put into it to make it work, and fit, i can vouch for why people buy pre made kits.

 

Not everyone has a SI trim, or a v3 or even a v2. Many people don't I'd assume. It's been proven to make similar power as a small pulley on the stock pully, and can flow nearly up to 500whp. And its a relatively affordable and easy to perform modification.
That sucks that they are d**ches about it. I didn't know that the sfr came with precision turbos, but then again I usually don't check out G35 designed kits
Our fuel system sucks. I meant our stock ones. I'm very aware of triple hangers and nasty big external tanks... But look at it this way, to get a legit fuel pressure for about 500whp you are looking at a minimum of about $1k street price for a stage 1 return kit. If you keep the stock lines and use a stage 0 for that power level, you are going to have to boost the voltage of your pump and run the potential for failure, because of the increased pressure the smaller lines create.
I'm just trying to say, we kind of have it bad (from the factory) if you think about it.

We don't really get any kind of bonus from the factory...

350z: Looks great, handles spot on, pretty good grunt from the factory, sounds pretty damn good too, the head flows really well, has a high VE, even the transmissions are pretty damn good. But, the chassis' anti squat feature screws with launches (yes it is fixable, but not everyone can afford a full drag suspension), the stock internals can't hold sh*t, the fuel system is bad, is a bit on the heavy side from the factory, has weak axels, not factory FI, V6 is crammed in there tight (so its harder to work on- intake manifold removal is a b***, turbo installations are harder, single turbos need a bunch of piping-reducing efficiency).....

I mean in comparison we have a lot to overcome. Are other cars a sinch? Nope. Do other cars have easy turbo installations? Sometimes. Is our car s***? Nope, it just requires a bit more work/parts.
Why do people under use their setups? IDK, to me I see this going back to the tuner. No shop wants to blow up any car. AMS for example has put out an evo with 2.4ltr stroker gt35r with cams and the whole 'package'. This car made 420whp on a non biased dyno. Another evo with a rebuild, cams (and the general package) and gt35r (or gt37 i can't remember) built and tuned by buscher racing. That car made 600whp on the same dyno. Both pumpgas, both non meth (youtube ftw). But the AMS car probably was about 2x the price.
Also if you told the average tuner "hey i want 5xxhp" they are probably just going to crank out that tune, make sure it's got some margin and collect their $. They obviously are not saying, "hey, these turbos are pretty good, I think we can make another 100hp if we up the boost 8-12psi". Especially if they aren't familiar with Z's, they might not even know the kit can make more power. Maybe people would rather be in the lower range of their setup to increase the durability...
PS, if you want turbo LS power, save yourself a bit of work and just buy a corvette. I hear C6 prices are dropping...

 

IMO part of the problem with the F/I section is because appx 1-2 years ago IB made a decision to ban all voices of dissension. Anyone who challenged sponsors was banned, sponsor on sponsor arguements are non-exsistant now.

It may not have been polite or productive, but it was always amusing and made for must see threads.

 

 

The issues are all, IMHO, a microcosm of the 'scene' in general. It's stale.

 

No, and that takes us back to my original point. There are kits out there that are not being pushed to the limits. The supra guys have already maxed out the 6765 turbo a while back on e85, making 800whp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPvGElCX8R0


Evo guys have already put down over 900whp with this turbo as well.

binder has one of the kits with this turbo, but he has had some issues with his Haltech, main seal, tires on the dyno...ect, and it all prevented him from getting some solid numbers on high boost. He did make 460whp on IP DD on 13psi, but that turbo is still sleeping. Spool characteristic were very good as well, 13-14psi at 4000rpm.

I have another customer that just finished a motor build and will run the 6265 T4 with a .81a/r housing, new DW fuel pump, 750cc injectors...ect.

I am looking forward to those results.


I should also mention that whenever I have a chance, I get the tuners to log exhaust back pressure. Since the VQ has such a high VE, this becomes a huge issue. binder (Jeff) had the 6765 T4 with a .68 a/r hot side, and it became a restriction at only 460whp. I bought him a replacement .81a/r housing and he will get back to the dyno hopefully soon. From street logs, he tells me that the turbo still spools at the same 4000rpm mark with the new (larger) T4 .81 a/r housing as it did with the .68.

His exhaust back pressure was 33psi at only 14psi of boost with that T4 .68 housing. Just for reference purposes the T4 .58 is about the same as the T3 .82 a/r. This is why we see some of the other ST kits fall on their face when going for 480+whp. The T3 turbines are just too small, causing back pressure issues.

So far, from experince and feedback I have learned that a T4 with a large turbine a/r is a must for a built VQ.

When somebody maxes out the 6765, I will be looking at having a 76mm turbo as an option.

 

I don't even see as many rivers out anymore... I noticed in my area car shoes and events dropped off significantly as well.

 

Thanks for the info Sasha. I was hoping there would be more data/results for the 6765 on the VQ by now. Jeff seems like a good guy and he has been a valuable member on this site. I hope he gets his issues resolved soon.

I've seen that Precision also offers a V-band inlet & outlet housing with .82 AR. Do you happen to know if it's more equivalent to a T3 or T4 housing?

 

I don't know, but can find out.