Twin turbo build fabrication/pics
Hopefully this one will make it.
04-17-2011, 01:16 PM
#163
I would have to disagree as that is not entirely true. Based on your logic, Nissan would then have to individually tune every car they produce, which is obviously not the case.
Now if you are running a standalone or piggyback engine management system, then yes I would agree you should have a tune specific to your build.
But....
One of the major benefits of flashing the factory ECU is you retain and benefit from all the capabilities the manufacturer as already designed. air temp compensation, altitude compensation, fuel temp. compensation, voltage compensation, etc. etc.
So if you have a production turbo kit, designed for a specific trim vehicle, and during your R&D process tune this vehicle utilizing the factory ECU (within an acceptable safety margin of course) then packages this tune and supply it with your kit - you can literally install the kit, flash the ECU and drive the car.
I believe there are plenty of GTM kits with their flash running around that can prove this point. Not to mention tuners like Dinan, and various EVO tuners that sell their tunes over the internet/mail.
Just want to make sure we aren't spreading wrong information that might scare some folk who don't know any better
In short, a properly pre-packaged tune that is used with the kit it was designed for is no more dangerous, and if not safer (due to incompetent tuners abroad), than a custom tune.
-George
Now if you are running a standalone or piggyback engine management system, then yes I would agree you should have a tune specific to your build.
But....
One of the major benefits of flashing the factory ECU is you retain and benefit from all the capabilities the manufacturer as already designed. air temp compensation, altitude compensation, fuel temp. compensation, voltage compensation, etc. etc.
So if you have a production turbo kit, designed for a specific trim vehicle, and during your R&D process tune this vehicle utilizing the factory ECU (within an acceptable safety margin of course) then packages this tune and supply it with your kit - you can literally install the kit, flash the ECU and drive the car.
I believe there are plenty of GTM kits with their flash running around that can prove this point. Not to mention tuners like Dinan, and various EVO tuners that sell their tunes over the internet/mail.
Just want to make sure we aren't spreading wrong information that might scare some folk who don't know any better
In short, a properly pre-packaged tune that is used with the kit it was designed for is no more dangerous, and if not safer (due to incompetent tuners abroad), than a custom tune.
-George
04-17-2011, 01:51 PM
#164
Then there is something else wrong with your car, the flash is tuned for a certain range of power, and as long as you do not exceed that range you will be fine. (Therefore differences in power are irrelevant)
What where the specifications of your car? Turbo kit/EMS/Fuel/etc.
What where the specifications of your car? Turbo kit/EMS/Fuel/etc.
04-20-2011, 08:11 AM
#165
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Then there is something else wrong with your car, the flash is tuned for a certain range of power, and as long as you do not exceed that range you will be fine. (Therefore differences in power are irrelevant)
What where the specifications of your car? Turbo kit/EMS/Fuel/etc.
What where the specifications of your car? Turbo kit/EMS/Fuel/etc.
Factory engines can vary as much as 10% on power. Built engines would be in the same ballpark if not more variation due to the fact that there are different machinists working on the extra engines.
Out of the box tunes are generally going to run rich with retarded timing so the engines are "safe". This is far from ideal compared to getting a tune specific for a vehicle. 8 grand for a twin turbo kit plus the install and supporting mods so the 600-800$ for a dyno tune is well worth the weight of the cost.
04-20-2011, 11:06 AM
#166
Jeff,
I believe we are talking about stock block buying a complete turbo kit including ems vs. a tuner kit with a custom tune. If we keep changing the scenario of course things will change if you are spending the money to get a built engine and turbo system it would be silly not to get a custom tune as well especially if you are exceeding the kits recommend boost pressure for that specific tune.
If anything the tune will be safer with a built engine due to lower compression and stronger components - so I still stand by my argument, although I do understand your perspective
Also just to clarify I was responding to the comment that not getting a custom tune is dangerous/going to blow your engine and that you should never use one (which is ridiculous). I am not arguing the fact that a custom tune will yield the most performance per individual car.
-George
I believe we are talking about stock block buying a complete turbo kit including ems vs. a tuner kit with a custom tune. If we keep changing the scenario of course things will change if you are spending the money to get a built engine and turbo system it would be silly not to get a custom tune as well especially if you are exceeding the kits recommend boost pressure for that specific tune.
If anything the tune will be safer with a built engine due to lower compression and stronger components - so I still stand by my argument, although I do understand your perspective
Also just to clarify I was responding to the comment that not getting a custom tune is dangerous/going to blow your engine and that you should never use one (which is ridiculous). I am not arguing the fact that a custom tune will yield the most performance per individual car.
-George
04-20-2011, 12:51 PM
#167
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Jeff,
I believe we are talking about stock block buying a complete turbo kit including ems vs. a tuner kit with a custom tune. If we keep changing the scenario of course things will change if you are spending the money to get a built engine and turbo system it would be silly not to get a custom tune as well especially if you are exceeding the kits recommend boost pressure for that specific tune.
If anything the tune will be safer with a built engine due to lower compression and stronger components - so I still stand by my argument, although I do understand your perspective
Also just to clarify I was responding to the comment that not getting a custom tune is dangerous/going to blow your engine and that you should never use one (which is ridiculous). I am not arguing the fact that a custom tune will yield the most performance per individual car.
-George
I believe we are talking about stock block buying a complete turbo kit including ems vs. a tuner kit with a custom tune. If we keep changing the scenario of course things will change if you are spending the money to get a built engine and turbo system it would be silly not to get a custom tune as well especially if you are exceeding the kits recommend boost pressure for that specific tune.
If anything the tune will be safer with a built engine due to lower compression and stronger components - so I still stand by my argument, although I do understand your perspective
Also just to clarify I was responding to the comment that not getting a custom tune is dangerous/going to blow your engine and that you should never use one (which is ridiculous). I am not arguing the fact that a custom tune will yield the most performance per individual car.
-George
I do agree an out of box tune can be a SAFE tune. They generally are over safe because of liability from the manufacturer.
We were just on different pages.
04-22-2011, 07:29 AM
#170
I do have 4 ST kits ready to go at a great low price
.
04-22-2011, 07:34 AM
#171
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great that gives me ample time to put funds together and patiently wait for you to say they're ready for sale and I'll be in touch to figure out the best options and such and send payment
Thanks
Thanks
Yes, this will work with the auto as well. At the moment the project is on the shelf do to time/funding. The car will be going back on the road May 1st, and I don't plan on doing any R&D with the TT idea untill late in the year. At that point it will be completed, and ready to go.
I do have 4 ST kits ready to go at a great low price.
I do have 4 ST kits ready to go at a great low price
.
04-26-2011, 09:34 AM
#172
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one more question... would I be able to retain the use of DC sport ceramic headers and Motordyne Engineering ART resonance test pipes? or will I need to get different headers and test pipes when I do the install of the twin turbo kit?
04-26-2011, 10:14 AM
#174
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oh sweet! I have no problem ditching my current test pipes. I have Kinetix resonated test pipes and they're still raspy on my car so I was thinking of switching to the ART pipes to eliminate the rasp but if the turbos take the place of the test pipes then that just saves me money overall
Can't wait til this winter to discuss options and send funds for this. I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread
and thanks for the quick replies I know your're a real busy guy so I appreciate you taking the time to answer
04-26-2011, 12:10 PM
#175
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not to thread jack but it's probably your exhaust causing the rasp. I have unresonated cheapo test pipes with borla full exhaust and i've never had rasp from day 1. It seems most people with rasp have a straight through design or a single 3" exhaust.
