Cass007

iTrader: (34)

^^^

Also, keep in mind that if you go F/I on an LS block, you can just swap out the stock internals for forged without having to machine the block. Plus, 8psi will get you many whp

dikspiel

iTrader: (70)

u should go with this godspeed turbo setup and LS block.

0jiggy0

iTrader: (13)

Explain how you don't have to machine an ls block compared to any other block on planet earth. With regards to changing internals?

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

How many VQs that are built do not get a .20 overbore? I have read threads on the LS forums where people are just replacing pistons, rods and rings at the stock bore, not even a hone.

Negative

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

With all due respect, if you don't have a block machined before ANY rebuild, you are not doing it right.
You don't need to go .2 over, but most people do.
I wouldn't trust anyone who is 'building' a motor without even honing the block.
A build should always have the tolerances checked (micing all internals, weighing and then blue printing), have the block honed, and have all the right gaps and bearings installed. Even on a oem spec rebuild you should check clearances and have a hone done.
Just because 'it works' doesn't mean 'it's right'.
Again, I don't trust anyone who puts forged internals in a non honed block. If you see premature bearing wear or spun bearings or massive blow bye on that forum, then you should know why.
Yes the v-8 is inherently more 'robust' per piston/rod/cylinder (because the 'power' or load/stress is more divided than on a v6) but that doesn't mean you should skimp out on the basics.
Proper engine building is universal imo
/end rant.

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

Never said it was "right" or what I would do. I would settle for a running car for a whole season right now, even on stock block power.

binder

iTrader: (8)

personally i think they use ls blocks for the fact that they can tear them down faster and parts are more readily available. The engines have been around longer so more parts. "most" drag teams also come from a domestic background anyways so they wouldn't be willing to switch to a different platform. I wouldn't either if i'm used to working on 1 thing.

I came from domestics so i've worked in both scenarios. There were just as many headaches with my 67 camaro as there are with my g35. My room mates mustang has the same issues and at this current time every single boosted domestic in the local club i hang with is down for repairs. That ranges from a TT cobra, TT zo6 (actually 2 of those), big single camaro, 240z with turbo ls, and both the turbo and s/c g8. All down with issues. Maybe it's badluck st louis or it could just be that all built cars have issues.

My problems with my car would actually tend to lead my bias away from turbo so i don't think that makes much difference. I think that actually makes me less biased because i still prefer my boosted vq despite the issues i've run into.

Just look at these scenarios "logically".

again, i see this happening on build domestics in the same percentage as i do with all the imports here. I don't really see more incidence in 1 particular vehicle than the other which is why i never understand why people run away from 1 type of motor to the next.



I'm probably the least biased because i build n/a and boosted bike engines, i've been in the domestic world and the great majority of my friends have domestics, and i've delt with problems on my turbo setup. The whole point to all of this typing is just that people think running from one engine to the next will make them free from any hassle when that's far from the case. From all i see i couldn't honestly say i see 1 platform having more issues than another. These forums are biased against vq engines because all we see here are the blow vq's. Head to a domestic forum and all you'll read about are problems with their engines. They don't post about vq's on their site like we do'nt post about LS on our site.

binder

iTrader: (8)

you can use stock bore pistons on a built setup without machining. It's not smart either way (LS or vq) but it can be done. It's always the best to machine the bore to exact tolerances of the new pistons.

binder

iTrader: (8)

that's because *gasp* there are way too many "backwoods" mechanics that don't do it correctly.

I've seen people building domestics and put new bearings in without even checking clearances either....talk about a shitbox build. Not to be all high and mighty but many people that have domestics don't have money to spend so they cut huge corners.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

The sad thing is that it's so damn cheap to get the bearings checked out, and if you are really ghetto you can buy a diy drill hone... And the car is guaranteed to run better....
At least buy a micrometer for $50 bucks verify it on something known and get the tolerances in check...

bigcloud

iTrader: (7)

Binder I see your points, and understand where you're coming from.

However, I still believe an N/A V8 Z will still be less problem matic than any stock block VQ application. The end goal for me particularly is to DD my Z. Many people on this forum don DD their stock block or built setups. There that "fear" of blowing the motor that I see some people post about. I don't want that fear. I want to rag on my car DAILY then take it to the track, without issue. Just like my N/A V6 Z. For me N/A is the way to stay. From and engineering perspective going FI just adds too many variables to an already complex equation.

dikspiel

iTrader: (70)

Cass i was being sarcastic

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

IMHO, get out of a Z and buy a vette. Honestly, how much are c5's now? and the faster better handling c6's aren't that much more. Save yourself the headache and just get a vette.
I'm going to DD my built setup, and it won't be any joke. Hell I'm doing a huge portion of the work myself too.

bigcloud

iTrader: (7)

I dont want a vette. I want something unique. I think you should keep a journal on your DD built setup. Do you take your Z to the track? If so keep track of that.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

I'm documenting A lot of the stuff going on. And I will be more than happy to share most of it (some of the parts/designs on this setup will be custom/unique to my build, test setups I came up with and will further research in cad which I may or may not want to share).
No the car wont be a track car, but more of a big hp street car. I'm a college student so this is technically on a stringent budget (although a LOT of money still went into it, over 15k).

Honestly though, what you are wanting is not what is in the Z's nature. A corvette sounds like what you want. There are also plenty of super performing super reliable kit cars out there for pretty sane amounts of $; if those aren't unique enough then IDK what is. Not trying to ding you or troll you, but honestly there are better handling chassis out there that come with a big old V-8 that will give you the performance and reliability you seek.

If I wanted that guts out torque and reliability I'd have a block built, and then get a quick spooling twin turbo like the jwt 500bb and combine it with a large vortech supercharger. Custom intake setup with some water and meth injection, a haltech ecu and you'd be set.

-Sorry to OP I totally veered this conversation off topic, I won't comment unless its about the original topic* again (in this thread, more than happy to continue the debate in another thread )-

bigcloud

iTrader: (7)

See I'm an established professional that can afford pretty much what ever I want up to a 2012 GT-R. I don't want a kit car. I want a z that has more power than stock without the hassle of FI. I can afford built twins if I want, but I don't want to drop 30k plus only to have a blown motor. I would rather keep costs down and keep my z. Just because I can afford it doesn't mean I should buy it. So I'm sticking with the V8. :-) we can debate some other time. You should share everything on your build so the community can see IF your problem free. That's why the community has been slow to evolve.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

I'll need the community to help with some of the tuning drive-abilty and such. I've got a good friend of mine (who's doing the fabrication) to help me decide specifics (he's a supra guy, helped him previously strip down his car to bare metal and know/trust his judgment). Since the Z came out, I've been researching FI applications on the vq, so I'm not too concerned. Actually I frown upon quite a bit of Z community feedback because it is so counter productive. I'll use what I find to help the community but I don't need the approval of the community to do what I want. It's these things that change dream builds to actual builds.

binder

iTrader: (8)

That is a good reason to use a v8. Don't want to hassle with FI.

That is a bad reason why to go v8. You're looking a very small population of 350z that are FI and have issues. People that have no problems don't come on the forums and post "hey, i'm still running strong" unless they race. All we hear on this forum is the negative stuff. It's the same way on the domestic forums. All i hear from my LS friends are all the issues they are having now that they are going to the track every week since it's summer. LS engines aren't indestructible and someone who is doing a sicky kit right now has already run across problems with their v8 that is beyond the problems they had with the stock motor FI'ed.

I'm just saying don't start thinking because you swap motors you are going to have some uber reliable car that will never have problems. That is far from the case especially if you do any work to the LS. Other than that it's a good NA engine choice and quite affordable with these new kits on the market.

sidenote: there hasn't been anything wrong with my car that is soley "vq" related. I've had issues, but stuff like my turbo line getting torn would have affected any other car the same way so i really don't worry about the reliability of my car because it has a vq engine in it.

bigcloud

iTrader: (7)

My premise is that I want the general maintenance like my z currently has. Its much better than rollingbthe dice with FI. Plus having a second car just because your car is FI is not appealing at all.

bigcloud

iTrader: (7)

Binder I want you to show me 10 people that DD FI setups AND autoX and HPDE with no major problems. If you can do that then my position will change with FI. Hell remember I'm buying this godspeed kit just to show that my motor will blow. :-)