revised HR Build
12-01-2011, 09:14 PM
#221
ryan, is a speed controller needed? i've never heard of other members with a big external and surge tank needing one. I thought fuel pumps are designed to run full speed all the time then the fuel not used is just returned. Seems like a complex expensive system that isn't needed. Do they use this to adjust fuel pressure? I would rather just use teh tried and true boost referenced system so there is less to go wrong (electronics).
12-02-2011, 05:14 AM
#222
I am impressed with Fuelabs new regulator-controlled-pumps. The regulator senses fuel return line pressure and adjust the PWM-controlled pump accordingly. We are a dealer and I look forward to testing this out first hand shortly.
12-02-2011, 06:03 AM
#223
The regulator is going to be priced around 395$.
You also need to run a overflow line from the surge tank to the fuel tank, contrary to what you posted. So you will have to mount the return kit into the stock basket.
I think you are under estimating the price of fittings and -AN hose. -10AN is about 7$/ft for the cheapest stuff. You will need almost 15 feet of that. You'll need well over 20 feet of -6 or -8AN for the return at 6$/ft. Thats ~200$ just in lines. Fittings are 7-15$ each and you need alot of those. Plus a stainless inline fuel filter and ideally and stainless inline prefilter. thats another $250 right there.
Granted you need quite a bit of that for the CJM double pump, but its not going to save you any money, time, or hassle.
You also need to run a overflow line from the surge tank to the fuel tank, contrary to what you posted. So you will have to mount the return kit into the stock basket.
I think you are under estimating the price of fittings and -AN hose. -10AN is about 7$/ft for the cheapest stuff. You will need almost 15 feet of that. You'll need well over 20 feet of -6 or -8AN for the return at 6$/ft. Thats ~200$ just in lines. Fittings are 7-15$ each and you need alot of those. Plus a stainless inline fuel filter and ideally and stainless inline prefilter. thats another $250 right there.
Granted you need quite a bit of that for the CJM double pump, but its not going to save you any money, time, or hassle.
Yeah the pumps can run at 100% but since they can pump so much fuel so fast it ends up heating the fuel to the point where the car won't start back up until the fuel has cooled back down, so it could leave you stuck waiting haha. I figured for us HR guys the CJM twin pump ($830), and stage 0 fuel return ($395) runs $1200. Then you have to wire in the resistor and the fuel float lever. My fuel system is $250 for the surge tank (could be smaller to save money), $525 for the Fuelab 42401 pump, and I'm waiting to hear back from Hal the price on the new 529xx series Fuelab regulator but he thinks it will be priced competitively. So I'm at $775 and have $475 for the regulator, return line, and some fittings to get to the price of the CJM stuff. Since the return line goes back to the surge tank there is no need to open up the factory fuel pump housing either.
Last edited by str8dum1; 12-02-2011 at 06:04 AM.
12-02-2011, 09:58 AM
#224
Yeah I wasn't going to compare all the other stuff. The overflow line from the surge tank will be going to the drivers side of the tank so I don't have to mess with the factory fuel pump. You also don't need a pre filter before the big single pump because the factory fuel pump has a filter on it, but I will be using a filter after the single pump.
How did you find out about that price? I haven't been able to find any pricing.
How did you find out about that price? I haven't been able to find any pricing.
Last edited by 08NismoZ; 12-02-2011 at 10:00 AM.
12-02-2011, 10:22 AM
#225
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Yeah I wasn't going to compare all the other stuff. The overflow line from the surge tank will be going to the drivers side of the tank so I don't have to mess with the factory fuel pump. You also don't need a pre filter before the big single pump because the factory fuel pump has a filter on it, but I will be using a filter after the single pump.
How did you find out about that price? I haven't been able to find any pricing.
How did you find out about that price? I haven't been able to find any pricing.
12-02-2011, 10:46 AM
#226
Is the pic not showing up? Lists MSRP right on the display placard at $395. Might be able to get it on the street for 350-375$ I'd imagine. Def not your $100 A1000.
you just mentioned you had 475$ left to duplicate the same setup as the twin pump. The regulator burns up almost 3/4 of that right there.
But on E85 making more than 800whp, thats the only way to go.
you just mentioned you had 475$ left to duplicate the same setup as the twin pump. The regulator burns up almost 3/4 of that right there.
But on E85 making more than 800whp, thats the only way to go.
Last edited by str8dum1; 12-02-2011 at 10:52 AM.
12-02-2011, 10:58 AM
#227
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. It will stop rocks from getting in there but not small debris. I would still run an inline filter.So far i still have plenty of room left at 650 with my twin
jason did 73x on hal's dyno with the twin. Not sure how much over 800 on e85 it would go though. Whatever it takes to max out 6 1400cc injectors because that's all the 2 walbros are rated at. 
12-02-2011, 01:14 PM
#228
Haha sorry I just scanned over that pic. When Blackbird(Jason) went over 800whp he was on ID 2000cc injectors and we wired in a Kenny Bell boost a pump to really get those Walbros humming haha. He didn't run it for very long though so it would've been interesting to see how long they would've lasted. I think if you're running E85 but not going for huge power my setup would compare to the CJM a little better since you wouldn't need such a big pump or expensive regulator, but with E85 you still have to run a new main fuel line. I'm definitely going to keep my receipts from all the lines and fittings purchased from Earl's in Indy and put those in my build thread once the car is tuned and any bugs worked out by Hal and Eddy at Dynosty.
12-02-2011, 01:36 PM
#230
Oh yeah I'm getting into the E85 club! I have the Greddy TD06SH-20G twin turbos that I've been running on the stock HR motor for 2 years now (made 454rwhp on Dynosty DD). I picked up a built HR and talked to Blouch and Forced Performance about upgrading the turbos without going crazy because I want to keep the rest of the Greddy kit as it is and see what happens. FP said they could upgrade the inducer to 76mm to get some more flow. I also have the OS Giken triple disc and ZSpeed heavy duty CSC, DSS Pro axles, and Haltech.
12-02-2011, 01:40 PM
#231
I'm actually kind of conflicted on having the turbos upgraded or just have them rebuilt. FP says they're only good up to 800hp but I haven't seen anyone push the stock TD06-20G that comes with the 07-08 tuner kit to its limits. If it falls short of 800hp I don't want to take my motor out just to get back to the turbos again though... hmmmmm...
12-02-2011, 04:39 PM
#234
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Haha sorry I just scanned over that pic. When Blackbird(Jason) went over 800whp he was on ID 2000cc injectors and we wired in a Kenny Bell boost a pump to really get those Walbros humming haha. He didn't run it for very long though so it would've been interesting to see how long they would've lasted. I think if you're running E85 but not going for huge power my setup would compare to the CJM a little better since you wouldn't need such a big pump or expensive regulator, but with E85 you still have to run a new main fuel line. I'm definitely going to keep my receipts from all the lines and fittings purchased from Earl's in Indy and put those in my build thread once the car is tuned and any bugs worked out by Hal and Eddy at Dynosty.
12-02-2011, 04:44 PM
#235
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so do they take a bigger wheel and cut down the exducer to the same size while keeping a larger inducer on the wheel?
i just checked them. compressor is 52.6mm inducer and 68mm exducer. turbine wheel is 55.1mm inducer and 65mm exducer.
are you sure FP didn't mean a 76mm exducer on the compressor wheel? going from 52.6 to 76 is pretty huge jump.
i just checked them. compressor is 52.6mm inducer and 68mm exducer. turbine wheel is 55.1mm inducer and 65mm exducer.
are you sure FP didn't mean a 76mm exducer on the compressor wheel? going from 52.6 to 76 is pretty huge jump.
Last edited by binder; 12-02-2011 at 04:49 PM.
12-02-2011, 06:45 PM
#236
Yeah Jason had 1200cc injectors before his lat build and then upgraded to the ID2000's.
I think you're right about the turbo specs. I'm still learning about turbos but I would think if you left the exducer wheel the same but increased the inducer the turbo would spool the same but draw in more air increasing the volume of air it's forcing into the motor? Am I close or way off haha
I think you're right about the turbo specs. I'm still learning about turbos but I would think if you left the exducer wheel the same but increased the inducer the turbo would spool the same but draw in more air increasing the volume of air it's forcing into the motor? Am I close or way off haha
12-02-2011, 07:15 PM
#237
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I have no idea. The furthest my knowledge stretches is what happens when you change wheel size. Changing inducer verses exducer i'm clueless. I do know a lot of the turbo gurus have hard evidence showing people that upgrade wheels with the same housings say that the turbo becomes inefficient and produces more heat so the extra flow is offset by the heat generated. Now i'm sure it depends on the amount of increase. It happened on some garrett turbos that they squeeze huge wheels in a small housing to claim it makes more power when in truth it didn't.
12-05-2011, 06:35 AM
#238
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update:
Going to do an oil change tonight after work, just hit the 500 mile mark. figure ill drive it till the end of the week and see if we can get it in friday to tune again and make some power
on a side note
rolling shot in route to a toy drive/meet this past saturday with my bud in his c5 z06
Going to do an oil change tonight after work, just hit the 500 mile mark. figure ill drive it till the end of the week and see if we can get it in friday to tune again and make some power
on a side note
rolling shot in route to a toy drive/meet this past saturday with my bud in his c5 z06
Last edited by ace32x; 12-05-2011 at 06:47 AM.
