str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

we had E85 all winter as well here in NC. I assume its the same batch as well since its the only station around, it probably doesnt sell much fuel.

Good thing my car is flex fuel HA!

0jiggy0

iTrader: (13)

E85 doesnt do well in storage because of the alcohol content in it absorbs moisture from whatever environment its in. Even regular gas with 10 percent ethanol in it is doing it. I work on Construction equipment and I finally figured out why the machines always water in the fuel. Their not sealed fuel systems like our cars, most are carbuerated with vented tanks. In your car it might not be a huge issue, but depending how its stored at the station it could be.

I imagine E85 its that much worse of an issue.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

damn thats a huge jump, july 2010 when i left for basic i could get it for 1.25-1.5 a gallon at norwalk. coulda swore i saw it for about 2.80 a gallon in oberlin when i was home on leave this past july/august as well, they always sold it about a buck a gallon more then norwalk.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

its 3.29 here. Last reported price in Norwalk is 3.49$

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

that makes me sad its went up so much i dint realise i guess thats what happens being in the backwoods of the world for a year =( i guess ill prob just stick with pump/meth even when i get back stateside then =/ if i end up needing more octane ill start mixing some xylene in, although i should be good with the 8.0:1 pistons.

binder

iTrader: (8)

Government cut the subsidies for it. I think they should have in truth because our tax money shouldn't go to pay for someone to use cheap fuel in their car. If the fuel costs XX dollars then the person using it should pay for it. I don't mind paying more money because it's my choice. My fuel use shouldn't be passed on to other people through taxes.

Toluene and xylene has risen a bunch lately as well. That was the old school method i've used for increasing octane but calculating the cost together makes it more expensive than the 110 race gas i can get.

binder

iTrader: (8)

like jerry said e85 absorbs moisture.

Charles, what i did was tune the car on e70 so that would be the minimum octane rating for that fuel. Now when i put e85 into it the a/f will be higher (about .9) so i can easily just adjust the a/f on the street but i know my timing will always be conservative enough for either e70 or e85.

Charles, i see no problems running it for safety at lower hp levels. My point was people think it's a cheap alternative when it truth it's more expensive per mile. If someone is ok with that cost then by all means i recommend it. I love the fuel but i've also accepted the additional cost per mile.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

man that blows, they cut out the subsidies on diesel a couple years ago too, but i think that is kinda bs considering how many truckers use it for a living, makes cost of goods go up across the board.

the good thing is i can get a 55 gallon drum of xylene from ace hardware on island for about ~440 bucks thats something i just checked the other day. running a 25% mix gives me about 100 octane for less then 5.50 a gallon. last year checking with the speed shops(i imagine the price is higher now) they where charging 8.50 a gallon for vp 100 and almost 13 a gallon for 110 which is ridiculous. i would sooner run twin a1000's with something retarded like ID2000's(might still need secondary injectors rofl) and run pure meth. 55 gallon drum of that can still be had for 175, about 3.18 a gallon but double the fuel requirement.

i guess in my case both options are close to each other in price

phunk

iTrader: (21)

i just filled up at under $3 a gallon, cant remember how much exactly. I think it was still E85 cause my AF didnt get any richer and my engine hasnt blown up from doing a couple pulls into 6th.

binder

iTrader: (8)

The problem with this is with subsidies we as the american tax payers ARE paying for more expensive goods. Subsidies come from our tax dollars therefore we all pay for that. That means all that crap you don't buy from walmart that is being shipped gets tacked onto your tax money.

So, the subsidies that truckers get for gas comes right out of their own pockets anyways. On top of that, i'm pretty sure the company pays the fuel costs, not the truckers. At least that's how it is with my uncle. He's a farmer that drives a truck part time.

Also, the subsidies that are paid to the gas companies goes straight into the pocket of the billion dollar oil companies. They don't pass NEAR the subsidy money they get over to the consumer. If they get 20c per gallon subsidy they will give the consumer a 5c per gallon cost reduction.

I also don't want my tax dollars going to all these stupid teens that crank up their fuel pressure and spew 50% of their fuel out their stupid stacks on their trucks to make them feel fast.

We have some local race gas here in st louis that is 110 octane for 5.99$ a gallon. Ends up being pretty close to the same cost of e85 per mile minus the fuel system upgrades needed for e85. I still choose the e85 for the cooling effect though.



I saw a few places in indiana this last weekend that was 2.99$ per gallon but it's on the rise here in missouri. I think it depends on the state tax rate difference.

On a/f, between the 2 fuels it's roughly .9 a/f difference in the 11.0 a/f range. If you tuned on e85 then you will just get more rich on e70. With the added fueling you get added cooling so if your timing isn't way out on the extreme level i doubt you will get any detonation between the 2. It takes some severe screw up in timing to get it to detonate. A local shop owner here has a new challenger with just over 1000hp. It runs 30lbs of boost from a supercharger and has a 200hp shot of nitrous. He was talking to me while i was tuning and said he runs around 24* of timing on e85 with that car.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

24* is nothing special on our cars with E85 either..... you can tune to MBT way before you have problems.

binder

iTrader: (8)

ya, that was my point. The map i was using was half that in timing and he was like "listen here, e85 is what we use here so i'll tell you some stories of our cars". Really opened my eyes.

And speaking of MBT, i've been slowly advancing my timing and have yet to get to MBT. Since i'm not a veteran tuner i'm going slowly and then of course had the clutch issue but every degree i was adding kept putting down more and more tq. I have a lot left which is ok because the amount of power i have now is well over what my goals are.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

depends on the company binder and theres also owner operators who own there own truck and essentially contract for the company. taxs are a steady rate though so the trucker and us already pay it, its just how the money is distributed. not gona try and get into politics because being in the military ive seen alot of **** that is just "are you ****ing serious we spend how much on WHAT?" i know they dont pass on most of it but they do pass on enough to help quite a bit lol.

honestly i wont say anything on the diesel trucks thing as well that cranking up the fuel pressure through the tuner actually does give them about as much power as a turbonetics kit does on our cars. those trucks are retardedly fast in a straight line, tuner, upgraded fuel injectors, and a little bit more boost from the stock turbo and i can tell you right now there wont be many on this site who can keep up with them. watched a bullydog truck at norwalk ohio pull up to the line with a trailer and 20,000 lb backhoe on the trailer. my first reaction was are you ****ing serious? what are these idiots doing? then the truck ran a 9.7 quarter and i quietly walked away and said wtf to myself.

binder

iTrader: (8)

my home town has a huge diesel extravaganza. Of all the trucks that convert fuel into noise and black smoke a very high percentage (probably 9/10) don't even touch sports cars in the 1/4 mile over the weekend. All of the trucks i see that put down decent 1/4 mile times come in by trailer and have jobs so they pay taxes.

I just don't think the tax money of the people should go towards benefiting a select group. Just like i don't think the e85 subsidies should be in place. If i want to use an alternate fuel i don't think that others that choose not to use it should help me pay for it.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

wow some people must not be able to drive then, guy i work with has a ram 3500 with new tune, new injectors, and stacks i think the tune bumps up the boost as well. dynoed around 1200 ft lbs of torque and will keep up with a z06 corvette all day long as long as its a straight line, not bad for a truck that weighs ~7000 lbs. also not bad considering he only has like 3 grand in aftermarket parts

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

i couldnt beat this ragged out diesel farm truck for the life of me when I was supercharged. He'd beat me outta the hole, and then there wasnt enough room in the 1/8th to catch. I was trapping like 8mph faster.

trq down low > trap up top.

phunk

iTrader: (21)

I am a set-it-and-forget-it tuner (i dont enjoy it, so i just drag myself through it because i dont trust anyone else, get it done, and then forget it ever happened), so I cannot recall the exact specs of the tune I ended up building in my 370. I do recall for sure that I am running 24-25 degrees through boost. I dyno tuned to 7.5-8 psi but I really run more like 8.5-10psi out there on the street.

I was really uncomfortable with the timing figures... but when I took any out it lost big power. To be perfectly honest, looking at my dyno graph and how rather bumpy it is, it really feels like it wants MORE advance but I wouldn't give in because it was my first Uprev tune and my first E85 tune.... and the only comparitive data I could look at was EVOs and Supras... old tech low compression high boost bullet proof engines... I just cant really translate their timing specs to my stock fragile 11.3:1 VQ that makes their 30psi of power at 7psi.

I am also running mid 12's in the A/F. <shrug> I really dont recall tuning it that lean on the dyno, but thats where it is now.

yesterday i finally took the laptop back out and plugged in the charger... getting ready to dig back into those maps, logs, and dig up any recent E85 tuning information I can find and hit the car with tune session number 2 before it hits me in the face with a rod. but ill be honest i am starting to feel a little like its impossible to blow up an engine on E85.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

I believe Joe K tuned his e85 Z to 26 degrees peak timing to make around 650 whp. His HR headgasket (or HR TTY studs) failed but no detonation I don't think. I dunno about not being able to blow a motor on E85 though - see 2nd post down: http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...d973b27973d27e

djamps

iTrader: (1)

Running 22* at redline on pump and stock block without detonating. guess it depends on power level.

binder

iTrader: (8)

That's the only place they can make up any ground. 4wd, heavy *** truck so they hook up, with tons of torque and mediocre hp. They come off the line strong. None of those 10 second trucks touched me at a roll when i was only 500hp. Off a dig of course they pulled due to traction and 4 times the tq that my engine was putting down.

If that guy is getting 1200tq out of 3 grand of parts he needs to write a book because it's more like 20 grand in parts with all the trucks that come down here and run any decent times.

Your timing sounds perfectly fine for that amount of boost. And yes, on a dyno the tq will drop off way before you detonate so the only way i see someone losing an engine to detonation with e85 is if they are a complete moron and keep adding timing even though the dyno is showing losses.

Probably the crappy TTY studs. They stretch and don't hold a solid clamp like the high tensile strength ARP L19 under high hp.

Power level makes a huge difference. 22* timing with 6lbs of boost is not even the same category as 22* timing at 30lbs of boost.