Sport Z Supercharger Shootout - Done!
12-17-2003, 03:19 PM
#142
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... [/B][/QUOTE]
The sportZ driver did drive all 3 cars in every test. Two of the owners asked if they could make a run with their own car between runs of the sportZ driver making a run with the car. Of course, it is their car so they can make a run if they like so they did.
Cheston,
To be blunt, you are hearing a lot of 2nd hand information from peole that were not invlved in the plaaning of this event and do nto know what was considerdd in this process and their information can be misleading. Track times, trap speeds being posted are not fully accurate as well as other varibles. All of the type things being speculated about on line were taken care of. I suggest you read the article before making a judgement on testing procedures.
For example, the running of the dyno had a lot of discussion with ATI, Stilen, and Vortech engineers going back and forth of procedures to follow to get accurate pulls for all cars.
Inventories of car being tested listed mods prior to test day and those variations were discussed by our staff prior to considering a car for testing. We got down to talking about weight of stereo systems, brand of tires, weight and diameter of wheels etc.
I talked about the event happening on line, I did not give a blow by blow of each phone call to every person I talked to or got e-mails from on planning this event. All i wanted to do is share with fellow Z owners that a test was being done hoping that would appreciate it.
If you knew how many different people were giving me feedback to make sure the tests were "fair" from their perspective, I think you would know that we got a number of different perspectives on what needs to be considered for testing. Lets face it, ATI, Stillen, and Vortech are aware of their products being compared and none of them want to have their car placed in a setting that is not to their cars advantage. Every company knew what car was being tested and its specs prior to this comparision.
We will consider all perspectives in testing of future products just as we did on this test.
Jeff
The sportZ driver did drive all 3 cars in every test. Two of the owners asked if they could make a run with their own car between runs of the sportZ driver making a run with the car. Of course, it is their car so they can make a run if they like so they did.
Cheston,
To be blunt, you are hearing a lot of 2nd hand information from peole that were not invlved in the plaaning of this event and do nto know what was considerdd in this process and their information can be misleading. Track times, trap speeds being posted are not fully accurate as well as other varibles. All of the type things being speculated about on line were taken care of. I suggest you read the article before making a judgement on testing procedures.
For example, the running of the dyno had a lot of discussion with ATI, Stilen, and Vortech engineers going back and forth of procedures to follow to get accurate pulls for all cars.
Inventories of car being tested listed mods prior to test day and those variations were discussed by our staff prior to considering a car for testing. We got down to talking about weight of stereo systems, brand of tires, weight and diameter of wheels etc.
I talked about the event happening on line, I did not give a blow by blow of each phone call to every person I talked to or got e-mails from on planning this event. All i wanted to do is share with fellow Z owners that a test was being done hoping that would appreciate it.
If you knew how many different people were giving me feedback to make sure the tests were "fair" from their perspective, I think you would know that we got a number of different perspectives on what needs to be considered for testing. Lets face it, ATI, Stillen, and Vortech are aware of their products being compared and none of them want to have their car placed in a setting that is not to their cars advantage. Every company knew what car was being tested and its specs prior to this comparision.
We will consider all perspectives in testing of future products just as we did on this test.
Jeff
12-17-2003, 05:35 PM
#143
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Originally posted by zland
...
...
Cheston,
To be blunt, you are hearing a lot of 2nd hand information from peole that were not invlved in the plaaning of this event and do nto know what was considerdd in this process and their information can be misleading.
Jeff [/B][/QUOTE]
Jeff, are you familiar with Cheston and his company?
Turn off the computer and start getting stoked for your glorious vacation. Safe travels my friend and hang a few for Art, Dave and me.
Bob
12-17-2003, 08:31 PM
#144
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Shame on you!
Sport Z Magazine, you have missed the point, the key message that was generated from this thread.
It took 30 over post from “ Sports Z Magazine” before the key stars, Sam, Razz, Dorian, Erick, Roger Wrights & Ted, were even acknowledged and worth mentioning. No genuine apologies were even offered for the self serving, opportunistic gesture.
Alex Cates, Steve Millen were the first to receive praises from the Publisher of “ Sports Z Magazine;” even though, none of them, the manufacturers/people that stood to gain most in this endeavor, found it in their interest to pay tribute, and sponsor the cars and owners that made the event a success.
And finally, readers & subscribers were offered pathetic rationales, justifications, threats, retribution, condescending, insulting & patronizing remarks; for their role in this cash cow machine.
I wonder how much did “Sports Z Magazine” contribute to the last ZChickz meet in Philly that actually benefited the attendees?
Shame on you!
After what I've witnessed here, I have no interest to renew my subscription, to an opportunistic, arrogant & self serving group; with no respect, consideration for their audience.
It took 30 over post from “ Sports Z Magazine” before the key stars, Sam, Razz, Dorian, Erick, Roger Wrights & Ted, were even acknowledged and worth mentioning. No genuine apologies were even offered for the self serving, opportunistic gesture.
Alex Cates, Steve Millen were the first to receive praises from the Publisher of “ Sports Z Magazine;” even though, none of them, the manufacturers/people that stood to gain most in this endeavor, found it in their interest to pay tribute, and sponsor the cars and owners that made the event a success.
And finally, readers & subscribers were offered pathetic rationales, justifications, threats, retribution, condescending, insulting & patronizing remarks; for their role in this cash cow machine.
I wonder how much did “Sports Z Magazine” contribute to the last ZChickz meet in Philly that actually benefited the attendees?
Shame on you!
After what I've witnessed here, I have no interest to renew my subscription, to an opportunistic, arrogant & self serving group; with no respect, consideration for their audience.
Last edited by 350Zzzz; 12-17-2003 at 08:33 PM.
12-17-2003, 10:07 PM
#145
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IMHO the article itself will be worthless.
1. As stated previously, there is no way in hell a winner can be declared. How can you possibly account for the vast number of variables involved (intake, exhaust, flywheels, rims, tires, mileage, fuel grade, weight, etc....)?? You can list the mods that were on each car and "guesstimate," but no then you can't compare SC vs SC.
2. By springtime there will be several more FI choices available. Does your article mention turbos at all?? What are we to do in spring after reading your "3 SC shootout" when there are now 10 FI choices available?
3. Who is the driver and what are his exact credentials? Why is there such a discrepency between the two drivers of the same car(13.1 vs 13.4)?? It seems apparent that the driver of all three cars can't push them to their limits. Heck, even the type of shift **** and pedal type (aftermarket metal) could throw off his runs. Maybe he shifts faster with the stock shifter, maybe faster with a woodgrain finish, maybe faster with a smooth metallic shifter. So many countless variables.
All in all, no winners, no apples to apples comparison, just subjective opinions and guesstimates are all we can expect from the article.
1. As stated previously, there is no way in hell a winner can be declared. How can you possibly account for the vast number of variables involved (intake, exhaust, flywheels, rims, tires, mileage, fuel grade, weight, etc....)?? You can list the mods that were on each car and "guesstimate," but no then you can't compare SC vs SC.
2. By springtime there will be several more FI choices available. Does your article mention turbos at all?? What are we to do in spring after reading your "3 SC shootout" when there are now 10 FI choices available?
3. Who is the driver and what are his exact credentials? Why is there such a discrepency between the two drivers of the same car(13.1 vs 13.4)?? It seems apparent that the driver of all three cars can't push them to their limits. Heck, even the type of shift **** and pedal type (aftermarket metal) could throw off his runs. Maybe he shifts faster with the stock shifter, maybe faster with a woodgrain finish, maybe faster with a smooth metallic shifter. So many countless variables.
All in all, no winners, no apples to apples comparison, just subjective opinions and guesstimates are all we can expect from the article.
12-17-2003, 10:30 PM
#146
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There are just as many variables in other mag tests. Different mags test at different locations, different weather, etc. They all report different times than the other. How do you cope with the fact that when other mags test a Ferrari, Lambo, and Porsche there are other makes and models of cars that exist!?!?
Damn, it's a magazine article. There are millions of articles being written everyday about cars, boats, pottery, knitting, dancing, weightlifting, etc. It seems as though people are waiting for the new Bible to come out or something. It is a magazine article. It's entertainment. Yeesh.
Damn, it's a magazine article. There are millions of articles being written everyday about cars, boats, pottery, knitting, dancing, weightlifting, etc. It seems as though people are waiting for the new Bible to come out or something. It is a magazine article. It's entertainment. Yeesh.
12-18-2003, 12:29 AM
#149
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Well, this has been an interesting thread. I was there and thought it was fun. Good to see all the cars in person and watch them run. I do have a couple videos of the racing. One good one of the stillen car running the autoX and a few drag racing videos. The file sizes are huge though so I want to deal with that in the next day or so and then I'll post em. Or if someone with a better web server than I have wants to host em that'd be fine too. The autoX one is like 56mb and the drag racing ones are around 11mb. I bet they'll be downloaded a good bit which is the only reason I'm not sure I want to host it as my server is acting up and that might push it over the limits. =) Anyone know a good way to compress some .mod files? They are aparently mpeg2 files and play fine in windows media player. The resolution is pretty high so I really just need to make it a bit smaller and I think things should be better.
I'd like to say thanks to everyone I got to meet and race and see everyones cars. But man was there ever a lot of silver, and I thought silverstone would be unigue...guess I turned out pretty wrong. =)
I'm glad that Sport Z told people about it and let them come. You can't expect them to give out the full info before as they are in the business to make money and I thank them that they are even putting out a Z car magazine.
Also, for the 1/4 miles times...the track is fairly poor. Everyone was running slower than what they had hoped they would. The track actually changes up in elevation as you go down the track some and starting line traction was poor unless you had slicks. Just like when you compare the times other big magazines give of a stock 350Z vary a good bit due to conditions at the time of their testing. I'll be very interested to read the article when it comes out to get a good impression from the driving experience between all the cars from someone who has driven them all.
Also to Sport Z, wasn't the idea to do a turbo shootout as well when the rest of the kits made it out in a similar fashion so they could all be compared? I thought I read that in one thread somewhere.
I'd like to say thanks to everyone I got to meet and race and see everyones cars. But man was there ever a lot of silver, and I thought silverstone would be unigue...guess I turned out pretty wrong. =)
I'm glad that Sport Z told people about it and let them come. You can't expect them to give out the full info before as they are in the business to make money and I thank them that they are even putting out a Z car magazine.
Also, for the 1/4 miles times...the track is fairly poor. Everyone was running slower than what they had hoped they would. The track actually changes up in elevation as you go down the track some and starting line traction was poor unless you had slicks. Just like when you compare the times other big magazines give of a stock 350Z vary a good bit due to conditions at the time of their testing. I'll be very interested to read the article when it comes out to get a good impression from the driving experience between all the cars from someone who has driven them all.
Also to Sport Z, wasn't the idea to do a turbo shootout as well when the rest of the kits made it out in a similar fashion so they could all be compared? I thought I read that in one thread somewhere.
Last edited by Spyre; 12-18-2003 at 07:40 AM.
12-18-2003, 04:31 AM
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You know who I feel bad for in all of this. The ATI guys that drove all the way from KC for this just so you all would have a car with a Procharger. What a waste of time it was for them.
12-18-2003, 06:04 PM
#151
Originally posted by ravaz
You know who I feel bad for in all of this. The ATI guys that drove all the way from KC for this just so you all would have a car with a Procharger. What a waste of time it was for them.
You know who I feel bad for in all of this. The ATI guys that drove all the way from KC for this just so you all would have a car with a Procharger. What a waste of time it was for them.
You know I was really excited about this whole event and was going to send in my subscription for the magazine but after this whole fiasco I'll pass. I learn more from the members of this forum and the people that I meet at car meets than I would from their magazine anyway.
12-18-2003, 06:08 PM
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How is this a fiasco?? Because they want to release it in an article which can fully explain all the results. You all are a bunch of whiners!! It's sad really, no wonder the old Z car only mag died...with community support like this I'm not sure how much I'd want to do it. Or at least drop 350Z coverage when everyone is acting like such a ***** about it here. Sad.
12-18-2003, 06:17 PM
#153
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Re: Shame on you!
Originally posted by 350Zzzz
After what I've witnessed here, I have no interest to renew my subscription, to an opportunistic, arrogant & self serving group; with no respect, consideration for their audience. [/B]
After what I've witnessed here, I have no interest to renew my subscription, to an opportunistic, arrogant & self serving group; with no respect, consideration for their audience. [/B]
Happy Holidays,
Bob
12-18-2003, 06:24 PM
#154
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Originally posted by Linh811
[B]IMHO the article itself will be worthless.
[B]IMHO the article itself will be worthless.
A Shootout -- yes.
An event -- no
Most controllable variables considered -- yes
Every variable covered -- no
Bob
12-18-2003, 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Spyre
How is this a fiasco?? Because they want to release it in an article which can fully explain all the results. You all are a bunch of whiners!! It's sad really, no wonder the old Z car only mag died...with community support like this I'm not sure how much I'd want to do it. Or at least drop 350Z coverage when everyone is acting like such a ***** about it here. Sad.
How is this a fiasco?? Because they want to release it in an article which can fully explain all the results. You all are a bunch of whiners!! It's sad really, no wonder the old Z car only mag died...with community support like this I'm not sure how much I'd want to do it. Or at least drop 350Z coverage when everyone is acting like such a ***** about it here. Sad.
Ditto, I sure wouldn't want to do business in this community. It makes me embarassed to be part of the community with whining like this.
12-18-2003, 06:40 PM
#156
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Originally posted by 350ZMotorsports
How about they do one with all the new twin turbo kits in early 04
How about they do one with all the new twin turbo kits in early 04
We've learned a valuable lesson here. We will continue conducting shootouts because we know most people are interested in the data we gather. Unfortunately, the shootout(s) will have to remain a secret until publication. BTW, we don't have winners or losers; we present the data and you decide.
I know the closed shootouts will disappoint many of you and I truly wish it could be different.
I would like to thank all the wonderful folks here at my350z.com who supported our Shootout and understand our role in it. Another thanks to the new subscribers from my350z.com who have been ordering on-line and through our phone lines at our circulation department.
Bob
12-18-2003, 06:55 PM
#157
Originally posted by Spyre
How is this a fiasco?? Because they want to release it in an article which can fully explain all the results. You all are a bunch of whiners!! It's sad really, no wonder the old Z car only mag died...with community support like this I'm not sure how much I'd want to do it. Or at least drop 350Z coverage when everyone is acting like such a ***** about it here. Sad.
How is this a fiasco?? Because they want to release it in an article which can fully explain all the results. You all are a bunch of whiners!! It's sad really, no wonder the old Z car only mag died...with community support like this I'm not sure how much I'd want to do it. Or at least drop 350Z coverage when everyone is acting like such a ***** about it here. Sad.
Have you organized any Z meets yourself? If you have, which I doubt, you would know the great bond we Z owners share. I was involved in putting together probably the largest 350Z meet in the country this year and I spent tons of my own money to make sure everyone was accomodated well with snacks, drinks, etc. and this meet was solely for enjoyment whereas the shootout was put together for a business benefit. Those volunteers should've been treated like royalty as the magazine was going to be the beneficiary of some big business as a result of their generosity. They weren't even given a thank you.
I think it's people like you making the type of comments you are making that kill community support. The huge response in this thread shows how tight of a community we 350Z owners share and I think you missed that here. My best friends now are 350Z owners and the bond we have in the northeast keeps getting stronger and stronger. Too bad you're not a part of our community so you can really get to know the type of people we really are.
12-18-2003, 07:01 PM
#158
Originally posted by jesseenglish
Ditto, I sure wouldn't want to do business in this community. It makes me embarassed to be part of the community with whining like this.
Ditto, I sure wouldn't want to do business in this community. It makes me embarassed to be part of the community with whining like this.
My only issue was with how one of our members was treated and the fact that the magazine didn't show any appreciation for their generosity. Period.
Our 350Z community is a very strong and I'm not embarrassed at all to be a part of it. As a matter of fact, I'm very proud of it. Some of my best friends now are 350Z owners.
12-18-2003, 07:04 PM
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Wasn't talking about you specifically vics350, just the general bitching and complaining that always happens here when people don't get their way.
Whoever that ATI guy was that drove that far should be thanked because he did a great service by donating his time and trouble to be there.
Whoever that ATI guy was that drove that far should be thanked because he did a great service by donating his time and trouble to be there.
12-18-2003, 07:13 PM
#160
Originally posted by jesseenglish
Wasn't talking about you specifically vics350, just the general bitching and complaining that always happens here when people don't get their way.
Whoever that ATI guy was that drove that far should be thanked because he did a great service by donating his time and trouble to be there.
Wasn't talking about you specifically vics350, just the general bitching and complaining that always happens here when people don't get their way.
Whoever that ATI guy was that drove that far should be thanked because he did a great service by donating his time and trouble to be there.