its actually pretty easy. Theres tons of space in the V so you can easily put injectors into the intake runners under the plenum.

 

Not on an HR, there is a coolant pipe in the valley. I did that with my intake manifold but after doing a custom HR style cooling system it didn't leave room for the nozzles.

I have a pieced together Coolingmist kit, right now just a single nozzle but still working on figuring out where to put the direct port.

 

Hey guys, Looking a installing a water/meth kit myself however I have few concerns I'm trying to work out. Maybe we can come up with a solution together. The reason I want to install the water/meth is to lower my AIT. Running a procharger with intercooler and making about 8lbs of boost. My AIT at wideopen throttle is at 55C or 131F which I think are just too high. Don't have room for a bigger intercooler so thinking the spray is a good option. Here's my issue, putting the spray nozzle after the MAF lowers the charge air however, the ECU still thinks it is hot therefore it is still pulling timing to keep it safe. Putting the nozzle before the MAF would tell the ECU that the AIT is lower. However, water/meth going through the MAF is a no no. This was what I was thinking but not sure if it will work. Install an additional AIT sensor after the MAF but before the throttle plate and put the spray nozzle between. Move the wires from the MAF that read AIT to the new sensor. This way the ECU will know what the actual air temp is and make the adjustments to timing and fueling accordingly.

Let me know what you guys think. If anyone has done this please share your results.

What about going to an Air to Water intercooler, would this be a more viable option?

 

+1 on this was thinking that myself^ not sure on the air to water though

 

AIT is only really useful if you are tuning via MAF. The standalones use coolant temps for the huge majority of compensation. AIT is only a little bit. I dont even think I ever used air temp compensation with my Haltech, if i did it was only a couple percent if that.

Uprev doesnt allow for custom calibration of new AIT sensors either. The HKS sensor ($$$$$) is supposed to be close to the same curve, but not the same. So you'll go thru all that work and still not have an accurate temp measurement.

 

As for tuning I'm using Uprev and the MAF is the beginning of all tuning. This is why I'm trying to figure out another possible option. I'm not looking at calibrating the new sensor just moving the wires for the AIT from MAF to the new sensor so the ECU is reading the cooler air charge. AIT works on 0-5v so having a seperate sensor should still provide the readings the ECU is looking for. Any other thougths would be great.

 

no, AIT sensors use different resistances for different temperatures. The calibration curve on the stock AIT sensor in the MAF does not match up to the calibration curve with any aftermarket AIT. The HKS is the closest, but it very expensive, hard to find, and not exactly the same.

ie, stock 300ohms = 30* but on after market 300ohms might be 50*

Or are you saying you will buy a 2nd MAF and just use it as a temperature sensor? That is the only option that will work properly with an Uprev setup.

 

AIS is the best ive seen. i have snow and it sucks and always has a new leak that needs to be repaired. AIS used steel braided lines and was warrantied to 100% meth.

 

rcdash already has that done. The temp sensor doesn't have to be pre-TB. Put it inside the plenum so you aren't spraying directly on it.

the problem is using the uprev you won't be able to calibrate the new sensor like str8dum1 said. Rcdash has a haltech and he has it adjusted properly. I guess the only way for you to make the intake temp sensor to read like stock is to have them both hooked up, test the resistance at different temps and the add an inline resistor to make them match up.

personally i think that is a lot of work. Since you have uprev i would suggest making a meth and non-meth maps. On the meth map you know your intake temps are going to be lower no matter what the sensor says so if it's pulling timing then just advance the timing more. You will want the timing advanced more anyways with the added octane and cooling. Then you can have your other "non" meth map for when you don't spray.

It really doesn't matter if it's pulling timing because when you dyno it at those intake temps and say it pulls 2* of timing. Big deal, just add 2* more timing on that map since chances are you will always be at that temp with the sensor anyways. The OEM ecu doesn't pull a lot of timing with air temp increase anyways.

 

The Haltech (3/8" npt) and FCON (1/8" npt) air temp sensors read close enough to stock that it's not a big deal to hard wire it to the stock ECU. You can wire the air temp sensor right into the MAF wiring (essentially cutting/disconnecting the MAF temp sensor wires and just using the leads going back in the harness). Hal (@Dynosty) gets most of the credit here for pointing me in the right direction. I think he also came up with the Haltech AIT and stock Nissan AIT curves for use with the Haltech. Sharif gave me the FCON AIT sensor curve.

Here is a chart I made a while back comparing the calibration curves for the 3 (temp in deg F vs volts):


Here is the calibration data:

 

I'm seeing lots of good stuff about the Aquamist HSF-6 and no disagreement on the quality of the AIS kit... but I do see a pretty substantial difference in price between the two kits. Good things aren't cheap and cheap things aren't good in a lot of cases... but that doesn't mean that good things aren't "cheaper."

I noticed once you add some upgrades (braided lines, tri-injector upgrades etc) that the price starts to balance out. I REALLY like the easier install (90 minutes vs 4 hours or more) and the trunk tank concept.

Looking at the included parts- they seem comparable but the HSF write-ups tend to dwell more on the open source architecture and control panel while the ASI seems to have a more detail in the parts.

I think WMI is a good, affordable way to keep those temps down and increase power safely... seems like a no brainer. Now then... is it a 1000$ no brainer or a 600$ no brainer? Is the difference all in the name or is the HSF actually that much better than the AIS?

 

Pretty sure it's the 5 version you sold me (not 6). The key difference that I saw being that he 6 can use a MAP signal in addition to the IDC to determine flow rate.

Still haven't installed it yet though... weighing my options if it's even worth it at my modest boost levels.

 

The HFS6 and HFS3 have cat 5 cabling - very easy to install.

FYI (from owner of aquamist, if you plan to select less expensive HFS3 instead of HFS6):

-----------------------------
The HFS-3 cannot (compared to the HFS-6):
- offset against the initial F-IDC - the F-IDC threshold % = starting point of meth flow %
- It doesn't have manifold pressure compensation, but can use it as a reference for injection (see below).
- alter the failsafe reset period = pegged at 3 seconds
- read "Direct Injection" pulses such as the 335i or Audi FSI pulses
- control a MAC valve directly as with the HFS-6

The HFS-3 can:
- scale-up/down the incoming F-IDC for car with very large fuel injector that doesn't run up to 100%.
- You can run the system based on boost or IDC only. In single stage or progressive mode.

The HFS-6 is more suited for engine with large turbo with power beyond 550whp.
-----------------------------

I think the HFS-3 is fine if boost levels are not extreme as you would then want to compensate for it. You can just set your pump a little bit higher pressure to compensate anyway. I really like the AIS tank with the pump embedded in the bottom and all the -AN fittings. I'm tired of leaks with the push to fit so will switch over this winter to an AIS tank and all -4AN fittings up until the high speed valve.

 

you are paying the difference for the controller.

both are just pumps, lines, and tank.

The absolute simplist way to determine what system you need is to ask yourself "will my motor pop if my meth fails"

if yes, then you need to spend the money on the best controller. If no, then the less expensive system is just fine.

I never really ramped up the timing on my meth, so I didnt need the expensive controller. Sounds like you guys are wanting to gain 50+ hp. You need the good controller.

 

this is why i just got the aem kit, not planning on tuning to the edge with it, just for temps and det protection

 

i wish we had a way to "thank" or "like" posts. This is excellent advice.

 

Here is my setup......









Dual HSF-6 FTW and making me broke lol.

 

^ One of the reasons I decided to simplify and ditched water/meth injection in favor of E85 flex fuel option.

 

^^^your car is never getting done

but the same thing I did

 

LOL I haz patience but need more $$$.