TopgunZ

Hello all,

I am wondering if the following mods to my Z are worth it. I have a revup 06 Z with the stillen stage 4 supercharger kit. The heat is devasting to my performance (duh). So I am wondering if the upgrades below are worth it. I do all of my own work and think its fun so if i gain minimal for minimal cost..its a win/win for me.

1. Oil cooler kit
2. Fuel cooler or chiller
3. Larger Intercooler
3. Cams
4. Fuel return system


Things i should add. I have a Utec ecu and replaced the 7th injector on my s/c with 600cc injectors.

So out of the mods listed. What do you think would be the best gains for my bucks...and time somewhat.

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

What are your intake temps like? Oil temps? Coolant temps?

I would think #3, then #1 and why haven't you done #4 already? I have never seen anyone run a fuel chiller or cooler for our cars.

bmccann101

iTrader: (16)

OP.. not clear about your post.

You say heat is killing your HP.. well are we talking about in our summers? IE, ambient and intake air temp?

Or are you saying that you are seeing high oil temps and high water temps.


two VERY different things.

If you say your water/oil temps are high, id say an oil cooler is good, as well as a good mishimoto radiator and cap, and you can also add the pathfinder cooling mod as well.


If its ambient air temps, youre screwed, sorry. Its AZ.. aint no running from this heat.

What do you do for driving? Do you just daily drive? Short trips or long fwy driving?
I mean if you wanted the car to feel quicker, you could always do the rear end gears to 4.08and youl feel plenty squirrely again.

Post back, let us know what you meant.

TopgunZ

Ok. Sorry about the confusion guys. Yes. Its the ambian air that is hurting. I know its not summer anymore but I want to gear up for it. I get so sluggish on hot days after ive been driving for a few miles...even at first. So im looking for a way to keep things cool. Anyone ran a water/Co2 sprayer into their intercooler?

My oil and water temps are norm. Although..im not an expert like some here. So would adding an oil cooler actually increase HP or just safety?

Cass007. I wasnt sure that by adding a fuel return system I would benefit much. I am only pushing about 330 whp. Would i benefit that much from a full FRS?

bmccann101

iTrader: (16)

intense motorsports, call and ask for Pete.
480 635 8888.
The issue is that you are starting w a roots style Stillen S charger, you aint gonna get much farther man.

If you want to feel faster regardless of ambient air temps in city driving, get the rear end gears... search n read up on it, but call pete about your stillen and RFS and all that.. he will tell you 100% if you DONT need something or if it is pointless and he will tell you why. Hes there right now.. you got about an hour to catch him.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

have you logged your AITs on your UTEC? Have you made sure your knock params are dialed in properly so you are not pulling timing? Is the heat exhanger for your water/air intercooler getting full exposure? feels like and actually is are 2 very different things.

And like others have said, without knowing specifically what is too hot and by how much, just adding extra parts is a waste of money.

binder

iTrader: (8)

cams won't do crap and are a waste on stock block because you are limited by rods before the cams will be a limiting factor.

oil cooler won't increase power. It won't help anything if you aren't experiencing high oil temps. If they are high (over 230) then i would use one but only so the oil doesn't break down too fast.

larger intercooler wo'nt do anything because intercoolers only cool the air down to ambient.

The only way you will get below ambient is h2o/meth injection. Everything else will only get it as low as the ambient temps.

h20/meth again is a waste when you're on a supercharger system that can't really produce more power. It's a band aid fix. Enjoy your power or get a smaller pulley (i think the stage 4 is the smallest). Upgrading to a difference super charger is the only thing worth the expense.

TopgunZ

Well sounds like i should go in and have my tune looked at. But while im there... and to throw in a curveball..How about tuning a map (my utec has the selector) for E85? Is this a bad idea? Of my list of mods looks like no one has said anything about the fuel return system except someone aked why i havent done this yet. So if im putting one in..i could bulk up my fuel system and run E85.....i think...??

Eno

iTrader: (1)

I guess there is where you're at and where you're going. 350- hoping for what? Expanding? Maintaining? 350 - rfs? Dubious but hey I'm a noob. Oil cooler seems like a given on a 350. IC... Vertical setup may be mOre efficient but there are some $$ involved... Water meth... Mmmm. Now that's the good stuff! But... What are your goals. A lot of what is involved in determining the route involves evaluating the destination.

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

If its intake temps that are the issue, then water/meth is a step in the right direction.

I asked about the RFS because at 600cc injectors it couldn't hurt, most shops would have recommended it at that point.

With E85 a RFS is a must and most usually run larger injectors. Will you see any gains with that is the magic question? I will leave that to the E85 guys to answer as most don't start hitting the corn till >600whp.

The cooler on the intercooler looks cool, but is not efficient and getting CO2 too close to the intake can either hurt perfomance or lean you out and cause failure. Even with meth you are playing roulette to a degree that every bottle is a very close mix in terms of proportion.

You live in the freaking dessert!!! Its hot out there. For the best info and recommendations possible post some logs or a dyno sheet for everyone to see what is going on a bit better.

adittus

If I could get up to around 380whp I would be happy as Hell. Even 360 would be nice. I'm not after the gold medal drag racing record. Just a smile on my face. I suppose I have the power bug though and eventually will want more. But if a frs and some other cheap mods can get me there for now I will be happy. Not quite ready to dump the stillen.

So is a corn map a good or bad idea at 330whp and proper fuel management?

Any alcoholics out there care to help out here?

TopgunZ

If I could make a +40 gain through frs, e85, and meth water inj. I would be good to go. Is that realistic? Plus the tune should help.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

you cant make anymore power if your power adder is outta breath.

If E85 is an option, by all means switch to it. You can run your timing up to ~20*. Just get a return fuel system and a 340lph pump.

No need for anything else.

Ruthless18x

iTrader: (59)

When I lived in AZ, my AIT's and oil temps were extreme in the summer, especially running HPDE events. I have some log files somewhere. An oil cooler, oil pan spacer, koyo rad, nismo therm, and constant coolant flushes seemed to be best for me. Though I never had an issue with overheating.

A lot of guys run meth / water setups out there too.

TopgunZ

So could i run the E85 setup off of my current fuel lines and rails? Ive been looking at a return system that doesnt come with the rails.

I am leaning toward the e85 because as an added bonus it runs much cooler from what ive researched.

Oil cooler is going in. I also think i am putting in a fuel cooler as well. Found one for $40. But will this restrict my fuel flow for the E85 application?

binder

iTrader: (8)

+1

your stillen is out of air. E85 isn't a magic fuel that lest people get more out of a turbo or supercharger. All it does is allow you to use the REST of a turbo or supercharger if octane and cooling is limiting factor. A maxed out turbo on pumpgas won't yield any more power (worth the effort) with going to a different fuel. You might pick up some but not worth all the effort.

Boosted Performance

iTrader: (14)

You have a supercharger that is out of breath by the time you get to 5000rpm. I know these are hard to read, but trust me, I have a lot of experience with this particular (Eatom M62) roots charger.



The supercharger is over spun, and the discharge temperatures are in the 200deg F range.

There is nothing you can do as far as that goes. It is simply too small for a 3.5L engine. What size is the stock crank pulleys and what size is the pulley you have on the supercharger now?

EDIT:
Stillen stage 4 pulley: 2.2”
OEM crank pulley: 5.75”

Ratio : 2.6 : 1

Supercharger speed @ engine RPM
10,400@4000rpm
13,000@5000rpm
14,300@5500rpm
15,600@6000rpm
18,200@7000rpm

So, to sum it up you should not rev past 5000rpm (engine) to keep the s/c from over spinning. I bet that at 6000rpm the discharge temperatures of the supercharger are 250deg F.

You are also pushing only about 480cfm of air max at that RPM. That is like having one GT28 turbo.

binder

iTrader: (8)

BAZINGA

youv'e been engineered

Glex25

iTrader: (11)

Over cooling can also cause issues

My car would not see anything over 143 on the highway
Normal temps when driving locally

I had the Mishimoto T-Stat and changed it back to the OEM T-Stat

Eno

iTrader: (1)

Tell me more about over cooling while you're at it?