TopgunZ

So I have finally pulled the trigger on my long debate of what I can do to get more power out of my car while maintaining the low end rpm range fun of my positive displacement supercharger. That answer is to twin charge it.

I currently have the stillen stage 4 setup on my 06 rev up. Adding a Powerlab GT35R turbo kit on the car.

The first stage of this project should be done mid to late march and that is to just add the turbo kit and clutch.

The second stage is going to be to build the engine and add water/meth.

Right now I am running on a stock block and my only other mod other than the SC is a Greddy Evo 2 exhaust. So I will keep the boost fairly low until I build it. Oh and I have 20" 245s front and 265s rear.

I have read numerous threads on how this system works but I still havent found much info on the 3.5L DE engine so Im sure i will chime in for any input available. However, from what i have read is that this setup is incredible when its done.

Wish me luck!

djamps

iTrader: (1)

In my opinion the stillen SC will be a huge flow bottleneck and you'll be way better off with just the turbo.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

sell the stillen and sequentially charge using the small GT35 into a bigger rear mount GT55.

what you propose is going to be a tuning nightmare with crappy results for the amount of time/money you'll have invested.

TopgunZ

All of the threads I have read states that it is a common misbelieve that the roots is a bottleneck. In fact it multiplies the boost (theres a calculation). Trust me I have read enough threads on the roots style twin charge setup to convince me that it is the right way to go. And if not..then ill take the stillen off. At least im trying it.

How do you know the Stillen will be a bottleneck? Do you have proof? Or is it speculation...

IslandZavage

iTrader: (8)

+1....... keep the powerlab and sell the stillen.... What EMS are you running or plan too run? I see your in Arizona which means you have access to PROEFI. Sell the Stillen and get a ProEFI. Then instead of meth do the ProEFI E85 upgrade. Just an opinion....

IslandZavage

iTrader: (8)

If I were to try it (not gonna happen) def wouldnt be on a stock block.... I wish you the best of luck, but don't expect the results your looking for. Props for trying it though..

TopgunZ

I have a utec.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

to be honest DJ it wont be a bottle neck as the effect of both is multiplicative not additive, the air is going to be compressed so much that if he cools it properly it will be immensely powerful running both at the same time. check out the systems for the older cobras. running 8 lbs on stock super charger and 10 pound wastegate springs with no boost controller they are hitting 38 pounds of boost.

its been done several times to great effect by alot of people, its just not very cost effective.

MUZZY

iTrader: (28)

Please get rid of the stillen! Im preventing you from a huge money sink and a waste of time

MUZZY

iTrader: (28)

they also run 6" wide belts with teeth that prevent slipping

Ruthless18x

iTrader: (59)

Why would you even attempt to do this? It'd be cheaper and easier just to get twins in the first place.

I wonder if OP is even serious or just trolling.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

they dont they use the stock super charger with stock belts like this one.
http://www.lysholm.us/images/lysholm...1221_560px.JPG

and that one is a upgraded supercharger, as you can see its just a serpantine belt and only about 1.5 inches wide if that, cant remember what they have stock. i know my buddy was running a stock belt with 18 lbs of boost running through a ported and polished stock blower and different pulleys.

your thinking prostock style roots blowers(the cobras run whipples/screw type) that run 50 lbs boost and make about 2500 hp on q16 and 6000-7000 on nitro methane.

now personally on a stock block i think this is a horrible idea, the op wont be able to run the turbos at a low enough boost to not blow up the engine.

BornSlippyZ

iTrader: (1)

This has been done by ORC.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/feature...d/viewall.html

Op can read this thread about twin charging and Compound Turbo charging.
http://www.my350z.com/forum/forced-i...-charging.html

bmccann101

iTrader: (16)

being an AZ local , powerlab is your friend.

Ill PM my build thread WHEN it actually occurs and you can read yet another powerlab thread making sick numbers.

You dont drive a deisel.. twin charging is a huge waste unless you are an airframe and powerplant engineer who owns a shop, who plans to market the kit for sale he just lost his wife and 85 grand over developing.

Just saying.

I think 600 hp to the wheels is plenty for most anybody.
Lest ye hath forgotten, gas is gonna be redonk here very very soon.

My advice? Call Pete and talk to him about the powerlab, and dont think of using Stillen S Charger with it.. no way.

Im sitting here looking at the Red Stillen Z in front of me right now.. hearing it fire up sounds .. like.. nothing.

COlor me unimpressed.



Cool idea tho, but aint gonna happen, nor should it.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

orc isnt the same thing as the op is talking about, they used essentially a modified a/c compressor pulley/clutch so that when the turbos come on line the supercharger turns off. its one or the other with there car.

TopgunZ

Well the only reason i even created this thread is to have a resource of the largest pool of 350Z owners around. If all everyone is going to do is try to discourage me and tell me its a stupid idea then I will no longer need input and this thread can become another flaming/venting,useless thread.

Why is everyone so concerned about my stillen costing me money. Its money already spent long ago. So yes i could sell it and get 2K for it at best. But i have chosen to take a path few have attempted. This is going to be fun, experimental and pioneering.

Yes, I understand how this community feels about the stillen. However, this roots style system is "supposed" to work and has been done numerous times in the past. Google "twin charging" and do some reading. If it doesnt, i tried. If it does, then ******* to me.

Im looking for valued input here. Not criticism and rude comments.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

personally dude im not saying its a bad idea overall. me personally, im saying its a bad idea on a stock block. why? because at 5.5 lbs of boost on the turbo your going to be at about 27.6 lbs of total boost(stillen stage 4 is 7.5 lbs right? thats what im readin) you will be flowing enough air you will blow your ****. now if you have a built block and the money to afford the complexity, **** go for it man ive seen all the systems out there that outperform just a super or turbocharger.

even with horrible efficiency/cooling and a 80% drivetrain loss im going to make a rough estimate and say around 625-650 at the rear wheels that setup will produce if you dont run into exhuast bottle necks from like headers and stuff. that guaranteed blown engine.

TopgunZ

I will probably put the largest pulley on my S/C to create a very minimul boost at the SC at first and keep the boost very low to see what numbers i get from the compounding effect.

Is there a chance i blow my engine? Yes. Do i want to build it in a couple months? Yes. So if it goes then i will just have to build it sooner.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

thats still a 6 pound pulley isnt it? its pretty easy to figure out what you will be putting out.
((system1boost+14.6)/14.6)((system2boost+14.6)/14.6)14.6=absolute boost

just subtract 14.6 from that then, airflow is going to come into it but thats a very trick subject as one the air enters the turbo its going to flow the same but the air will already be compressed. the supercharger will "think" its ambient then so if it normally flows 50 lbs/min and your putting two bar into it it will think its flowing 50 lbs/min but since its already compressed it will be flowing 100 lbs/min(not figuring in the various losses like i said its a very complex thing to try and estimate a compound setup like this best you can get is......... uhhhhhh in the same lake i guess? lol)

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

to be safe if the largest pulley is about 6 psi then your gona need to run a 4 psi wastegate spring(do they even make those?) and you will still be about 12 lbs total boost which will prob be pushing it still.

just remember on this setup you need to run your wastegate referance to the piping between the supercharger and turbo, otherwise the turbo wont behave the way you want it too. dont reference manifold pressure.