5AT build recommendations
01-30-2013, 07:47 PM
#22
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Trans is going to be a major consideration- at 5-6k for a fully built system it will likely be one of if not the most expensive aspect of the whole build process. Mine was through IPT and it was 5500 or so without shipping OR a TC- (I think the TC was 800- shipping was 4 I think?)...
DEFINITELY worth it to find a member who has the trust of the community who is selling one that is already built...
Also, you're likely an open dif... you'll need to make that go away as well. That's another 2k by the time its installed- unless you're doing it yourself I guess.
DE non revup cams may also be a sticking point in the pursuit of 500. The heads flow really well- cams... mmmmmmmm maybe need to upgrade. I'm running a JWT 700BB kit and popular opinion was I was having to run a LOT of boost for the power. People who know claim that we lose roughly 20-25% of our power through the AT / TC...
Maybe the cams just help to bring the power on faster to pick up TQ numbers? It may not have been affecting my peak power... Anyway, if you're going to do the engine... do the long block and don't make the mistake I did thinking that it wasn't a hard job to do while the engine was still in the car. Apparently it can be done- but... regardless.
Also- be REALLY honest with yourself about the pursuit of 500. I was one of the suckers who learned the hard way (despite all the warnings lol)... it is a deep, deep hole to fill with dollar bills when things start happening.
DEFINITELY worth it to find a member who has the trust of the community who is selling one that is already built...
Also, you're likely an open dif... you'll need to make that go away as well. That's another 2k by the time its installed- unless you're doing it yourself I guess.
DE non revup cams may also be a sticking point in the pursuit of 500. The heads flow really well- cams... mmmmmmmm maybe need to upgrade. I'm running a JWT 700BB kit and popular opinion was I was having to run a LOT of boost for the power. People who know claim that we lose roughly 20-25% of our power through the AT / TC...
Maybe the cams just help to bring the power on faster to pick up TQ numbers? It may not have been affecting my peak power... Anyway, if you're going to do the engine... do the long block and don't make the mistake I did thinking that it wasn't a hard job to do while the engine was still in the car. Apparently it can be done- but... regardless.
Also- be REALLY honest with yourself about the pursuit of 500. I was one of the suckers who learned the hard way (despite all the warnings lol)... it is a deep, deep hole to fill with dollar bills when things start happening.
01-30-2013, 10:00 PM
#23
Out the *** and around the corner
But seriously having a manual swapped in will be cheaper than a built auto. I'm not sure if the sedan comes in manual but I'm sure they can be fitted without much issue.
Hell you could get an older non updated transmission for $500 bucks. SP put down 1200whp on one of the older ones. As long as you shift properly the weaker syncros shouldn't be an issue.
01-31-2013, 08:40 AM
#25
1k for transmission.
1k for clutch
~500 for the rest
Less than the price of a built automatic. If you already have mods in the car/you have a really clean car, not really worth it. You always loose money when you sell a car, then re-buying another you're going to loose more.
1k for clutch
~500 for the rest
Less than the price of a built automatic. If you already have mods in the car/you have a really clean car, not really worth it. You always loose money when you sell a car, then re-buying another you're going to loose more.
Edit: Unless "rest" is counted in labor.
Last edited by Nismo350z#0310; 01-31-2013 at 08:41 AM.
01-31-2013, 09:32 AM
#26
Just so you know, when you put a new engine or put a built transmission in you have to remove the transmission regardless. The additional chassis modifications are very short. Any competent shop could be done in less than 3 hours time. More likely under 2.
Regards,
Resmarted
PS: Since you've never installed engine components nor had a big shop work on your car before, usually you're charged around $80 dollars an hour. That's another $240 worst case. If $240 is a deal breaker, built FI isn't what you should be messing with.
Last edited by Resmarted; 01-31-2013 at 09:34 AM.
01-31-2013, 10:45 AM
#27
Hey troll. Thanks for your nearly useless input.
Just so you know, when you put a new engine or put a built transmission in you have to remove the transmission regardless. The additional chassis modifications are very short. Any competent shop could be done in less than 3 hours time. More likely under 2.
Regards,
Resmarted
PS: Since you've never installed engine components nor had a big shop work on your car before, usually you're charged around $80 dollars an hour. That's another $240 worst case. If $240 is a deal breaker, built FI isn't what you should be messing with.
Just so you know, when you put a new engine or put a built transmission in you have to remove the transmission regardless. The additional chassis modifications are very short. Any competent shop could be done in less than 3 hours time. More likely under 2.
Regards,
Resmarted
PS: Since you've never installed engine components nor had a big shop work on your car before, usually you're charged around $80 dollars an hour. That's another $240 worst case. If $240 is a deal breaker, built FI isn't what you should be messing with.
01-31-2013, 11:19 AM
#29
cams arnt a limiting factor i can promise you, they will help right shift the power band but depending on what turbo your running and boost level you might loose power. billet turbos like above 30 psi so in my case huge cams would likely drop my boost pressure below that before it could hit peak flow. so while i would make the same power on less boost, peak power will be less(in my case) you have to size them correctly and stock de non revup cams will have no issues above 500. i made 587 whp at 5200 rpms and 601 ft lbs of torque at 4800 through a slipping clutch and the turbo wasnt even sweating yet.
bigger cams will actually slow down power delivery to assist in traction not make it happen faster because they are designed to have peak VE in a higher rpm band, also bigger cams will typically have a smaller power band then smaller ones more "peaky" so to speak. from what i saw on my dyno theres no reason stock cams can hit 800 to the wheels with the right turbo since simply maintaining the power of 26 psi and a non slipping clutch would have hit 700.
bigger cams will actually slow down power delivery to assist in traction not make it happen faster because they are designed to have peak VE in a higher rpm band, also bigger cams will typically have a smaller power band then smaller ones more "peaky" so to speak. from what i saw on my dyno theres no reason stock cams can hit 800 to the wheels with the right turbo since simply maintaining the power of 26 psi and a non slipping clutch would have hit 700.
Trans is going to be a major consideration- at 5-6k for a fully built system it will likely be one of if not the most expensive aspect of the whole build process. Mine was through IPT and it was 5500 or so without shipping OR a TC- (I think the TC was 800- shipping was 4 I think?)...
DEFINITELY worth it to find a member who has the trust of the community who is selling one that is already built...
Also, you're likely an open dif... you'll need to make that go away as well. That's another 2k by the time its installed- unless you're doing it yourself I guess.
DE non revup cams may also be a sticking point in the pursuit of 500. The heads flow really well- cams... mmmmmmmm maybe need to upgrade. I'm running a JWT 700BB kit and popular opinion was I was having to run a LOT of boost for the power. People who know claim that we lose roughly 20-25% of our power through the AT / TC...
Maybe the cams just help to bring the power on faster to pick up TQ numbers? It may not have been affecting my peak power... Anyway, if you're going to do the engine... do the long block and don't make the mistake I did thinking that it wasn't a hard job to do while the engine was still in the car. Apparently it can be done- but... regardless.
Also- be REALLY honest with yourself about the pursuit of 500. I was one of the suckers who learned the hard way (despite all the warnings lol)... it is a deep, deep hole to fill with dollar bills when things start happening.
DEFINITELY worth it to find a member who has the trust of the community who is selling one that is already built...
Also, you're likely an open dif... you'll need to make that go away as well. That's another 2k by the time its installed- unless you're doing it yourself I guess.
DE non revup cams may also be a sticking point in the pursuit of 500. The heads flow really well- cams... mmmmmmmm maybe need to upgrade. I'm running a JWT 700BB kit and popular opinion was I was having to run a LOT of boost for the power. People who know claim that we lose roughly 20-25% of our power through the AT / TC...
Maybe the cams just help to bring the power on faster to pick up TQ numbers? It may not have been affecting my peak power... Anyway, if you're going to do the engine... do the long block and don't make the mistake I did thinking that it wasn't a hard job to do while the engine was still in the car. Apparently it can be done- but... regardless.
Also- be REALLY honest with yourself about the pursuit of 500. I was one of the suckers who learned the hard way (despite all the warnings lol)... it is a deep, deep hole to fill with dollar bills when things start happening.
01-31-2013, 11:24 AM
#30
think what he is saying it would be mayby 2 hours additional over removing the stock auto and putting a built one in. which an extra 2 hours sounds about right mayby 3.
@nismo any shop charging $99 for 2 or 3 extra hours of work is bs or its not a good idea to trust them. even for standard auto repairs the cheapest shops ive seen where $60 an hour, all the ones i worked at where $75-85 and custom work is typically more then that but at the very least matchs.
@nismo any shop charging $99 for 2 or 3 extra hours of work is bs or its not a good idea to trust them. even for standard auto repairs the cheapest shops ive seen where $60 an hour, all the ones i worked at where $75-85 and custom work is typically more then that but at the very least matchs.
01-31-2013, 12:03 PM
#31
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think what he is saying it would be mayby 2 hours additional over removing the stock auto and putting a built one in. which an extra 2 hours sounds about right mayby 3.
@nismo any shop charging $99 for 2 or 3 extra hours of work is bs or its not a good idea to trust them. even for standard auto repairs the cheapest shops ive seen where $60 an hour, all the ones i worked at where $75-85 and custom work is typically more then that but at the very least matchs.
@nismo any shop charging $99 for 2 or 3 extra hours of work is bs or its not a good idea to trust them. even for standard auto repairs the cheapest shops ive seen where $60 an hour, all the ones i worked at where $75-85 and custom work is typically more then that but at the very least matchs.
PowerFab and Jtran charge 150 from what I can remember.
01-31-2013, 12:29 PM
#32
You just need to cut a hole around the shifter, drill holes in the firewall, flip the mount and do some wiring. That really isn't much more work than installing a built transmission. Even with some ridiculous 10 hour addition, at $100 an hour, you're still going to be at least 2 thousand under a built auto and be stronger.
No matter how you turn it, if you're getting a built block and having it installed professionally, you're going to pay for them to attach and put in a transmission. Might as well have them do it right, and save your self some $.
think what he is saying it would be mayby 2 hours additional over removing the stock auto and putting a built one in. which an extra 2 hours sounds about right mayby 3.
@nismo any shop charging $99 for 2 or 3 extra hours of work is bs or its not a good idea to trust them. even for standard auto repairs the cheapest shops ive seen where $60 an hour, all the ones i worked at where $75-85 and custom work is typically more then that but at the very least matchs.
@nismo any shop charging $99 for 2 or 3 extra hours of work is bs or its not a good idea to trust them. even for standard auto repairs the cheapest shops ive seen where $60 an hour, all the ones i worked at where $75-85 and custom work is typically more then that but at the very least matchs.
I know a guy who charges 75$ an hour for specialty cars. He needs a big profit margin because he works basically on his own to run a whole shop.
Last edited by Resmarted; 01-31-2013 at 12:31 PM.
02-03-2013, 01:23 PM
#33
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Well, I think I've decided on what I'm going to do. I'm going to look around locally and see if I can find a 03-06 6mt sedan, and sell my car. I can transfer all my mods over fairly easily and build the engine. A 6mt swap would be more trouble than it's worth at this point because I have the old ECU in my car that doesn't support Osirus or any of that stuff.
So now the question is, RevUp or non-RevUp engine? From what I've been reading, the cams are much better in the RevUp, but if I'm building it I don't think it'll matter too much.
So now the question is, RevUp or non-RevUp engine? From what I've been reading, the cams are much better in the RevUp, but if I'm building it I don't think it'll matter too much.
02-03-2013, 02:40 PM
#34
Well, I think I've decided on what I'm going to do. I'm going to look around locally and see if I can find a 03-06 6mt sedan, and sell my car. I can transfer all my mods over fairly easily and build the engine. A 6mt swap would be more trouble than it's worth at this point because I have the old ECU in my car that doesn't support Osirus or any of that stuff.
So now the question is, RevUp or non-RevUp engine? From what I've been reading, the cams are much better in the RevUp, but if I'm building it I don't think it'll matter too much.
So now the question is, RevUp or non-RevUp engine? From what I've been reading, the cams are much better in the RevUp, but if I'm building it I don't think it'll matter too much.
VTR for example doesn't flash when swapped to a th300/400. I've asked, and the car runs fine. Doesn't seem like what transmission you use even makes a difference.
The only nice thing about flashing the ECU is the car will work basically like it's stock. It's your car, do as you wish, but seriously the manual swap "difficultly" thing is another 350z myth. Just like when people believed (me included) it would take hours to change the sparkplugs because you had to remove the intake plenum. People just believe all the crap they hear, simply because they don't know any better.
My 2c
EDIT:
If you're building it, a basic DE is the way to go IMHO. But also IMHO, if your building an engine, swapping the transmission is also nbd.
Last edited by Resmarted; 02-03-2013 at 02:44 PM.
02-04-2013, 05:57 PM
#36
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^ What str8dum1 said... I don't think it's flashable unfortunately. It was only in early 03 5AT sedans. All coupes, Z's, and 6mt sedans never had it.
02-07-2013, 12:05 AM
#37
Haltech has a complete ECU replacement out now, so I don't think that really needs to be a concern going to a 6MT. Not sure if it'd be affected by a swapped 6MT though (ask Hal?). But I do agree with doing the swap over building the 5AT, only reason I'm doing mine is because I bought Raj's (rcdash) since he's swapping otherwise I think I would've swapped too.
02-07-2013, 08:38 AM
#38
Haltech has a complete ECU replacement out now, so I don't think that really needs to be a concern going to a 6MT. Not sure if it'd be affected by a swapped 6MT though (ask Hal?). But I do agree with doing the swap over building the 5AT, only reason I'm doing mine is because I bought Raj's (rcdash) since he's swapping otherwise I think I would've swapped too.
If you can't flash that ecu, you could probably buy another ecu and have it flashed to work with your car. I'm pretty sure they can do just about anything now with the flashes. Provided of course the ecu will plug into your harness.
Any way you turn it, contact Hal at Dynosty. He'll know for sure what you would need to do to get the swap to work basically like a factory car.
02-07-2013, 04:57 PM
#40
The new Haltech only works on the 6MT. The old Haltech works for either. This is because torque management via the CAN bus is not (yet) supported in the new unit. The old unit relies on the stock ECU to transmit estimated torque values via CAN (and thus a working MAF is required to feed the stock ECU data).