Stillen Supercharger Best 1/4MI Bang/Buck?
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From: SoKal Desert
"I wonder why Mercedes Choose a Roots blower for there E55 (12.3 @ 116mph / 496hp/440RWHP), and why Jaguar uses them on there cars?"
Don't these companies, as well as many others including Stillen, use an Eaton supercharger. Here's a summary of Eaton SC info I've obtained from various sources.
" The Eaton supercharger is essentially a Roots supercharger with precision matched air flow chambers. Each rotor has been twisted 60 degrees to form a helix. The two counter rotating rotors have three lobes, which intermesh during operation. These helical rotors, along with specially designed inlet and discharge ports and ductwork help to reduce pressure variations resulting in a smooth discharge of air and a low noise level during operation."
What are the benefits of an Eaton SC?
1) Instant response at all rpm levels - no "lag".
2) High volumetric efficiencies - as high as 90% compared to the 60% - 70% range for centrifugal units.
3) Low noise levels.
4) High reliability - Over 100K miles is not uncommon. Bearing and seal designs meet all OEM durability criteria.
5) Packaging flexibility - reduced package size.
6) Self-contained lubrication - no external oil connections to the engine.
7) A bypass system used for controlling non-boosted conditions resulting in better fuel economy - While the supercharger is always spinning and moving air, it is not always producing boost. SC boost remains a function of engine load and rpm.
8) Lower underhood/operating temperatures than turbochargers.
Please note: This info is part of my personal FI research. I'm not pro or anti any FI manufacturer or system.
DaveO
2003 G35 Sedan / DP / Willow / AT / Premium / Sport
350Z Engine Cover, T-Stat & Air Duct / Stillen CAI
GG 7-Wire H-G Kit / TS ECU / E-Fans
Street Edge TC / B&M Cooler / Stillen Exhaust
Don't these companies, as well as many others including Stillen, use an Eaton supercharger. Here's a summary of Eaton SC info I've obtained from various sources.
" The Eaton supercharger is essentially a Roots supercharger with precision matched air flow chambers. Each rotor has been twisted 60 degrees to form a helix. The two counter rotating rotors have three lobes, which intermesh during operation. These helical rotors, along with specially designed inlet and discharge ports and ductwork help to reduce pressure variations resulting in a smooth discharge of air and a low noise level during operation."
What are the benefits of an Eaton SC?
1) Instant response at all rpm levels - no "lag".
2) High volumetric efficiencies - as high as 90% compared to the 60% - 70% range for centrifugal units.
3) Low noise levels.
4) High reliability - Over 100K miles is not uncommon. Bearing and seal designs meet all OEM durability criteria.
5) Packaging flexibility - reduced package size.
6) Self-contained lubrication - no external oil connections to the engine.
7) A bypass system used for controlling non-boosted conditions resulting in better fuel economy - While the supercharger is always spinning and moving air, it is not always producing boost. SC boost remains a function of engine load and rpm.
8) Lower underhood/operating temperatures than turbochargers.
Please note: This info is part of my personal FI research. I'm not pro or anti any FI manufacturer or system.
DaveO
2003 G35 Sedan / DP / Willow / AT / Premium / Sport
350Z Engine Cover, T-Stat & Air Duct / Stillen CAI
GG 7-Wire H-G Kit / TS ECU / E-Fans
Street Edge TC / B&M Cooler / Stillen Exhaust
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From: Jamaica - Building H
With all due respect....
Originally posted by Forced
Let me just jump in here real quick. As for the OEM's only choosing roots...maybe things are going to change. I posted this in another forum earlier, but maybe you all didn't see it.
http://autoshow.msn.com/as/autoshow2...c=autoshow2004
This is from the 2004 detroit autoshow. Take a look at the fourth picture down. That will be the TRD optional supercharger. Doesn't the supercharger look familiar?
Let me just jump in here real quick. As for the OEM's only choosing roots...maybe things are going to change. I posted this in another forum earlier, but maybe you all didn't see it.
http://autoshow.msn.com/as/autoshow2...c=autoshow2004
This is from the 2004 detroit autoshow. Take a look at the fourth picture down. That will be the TRD optional supercharger. Doesn't the supercharger look familiar?
They chose the centrifugal unit due to space limitations. They didn't want to alter (that equals cost on a budget vehicle...not good.) the vehicle or the tooling to create the sheet metal. Go back and look at the unit and its surroundings. Trying to put a positive displacement blower is about like trying to stuff a 440cid motor into a civic. There is NO room.
NOSty Mahn.
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From: Vortechville,CA
Originally posted by FLY BY Z
The Cobra guys replace the stock blower with the Kenne Bell roots blower to make 600. The guys that put out 800+ are running the Procharger!!!!!!! A roots type is going to give instant off idle boost, while a centrifigal is going to have some spool time up to full power (even if it is less than a turbo). The roots blower is going to reach max potential at a low RPM but they genereally have a lower spin potential and will drop the power off earlier. A centri will make the power and spin faster in higher RPMs which always shows higher power numbers (power increases with RPM).
The Cobra guys replace the stock blower with the Kenne Bell roots blower to make 600. The guys that put out 800+ are running the Procharger!!!!!!! A roots type is going to give instant off idle boost, while a centrifigal is going to have some spool time up to full power (even if it is less than a turbo). The roots blower is going to reach max potential at a low RPM but they genereally have a lower spin potential and will drop the power off earlier. A centri will make the power and spin faster in higher RPMs which always shows higher power numbers (power increases with RPM).
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From: Jacksonville, FL
It seems to me from the feedback so far, that basicly the ATI is the best bang for buck if you want to brag about hp numbers and are not so much a 1/4mi person.
The Greddy seems to be a big bang, but I don't know about "for your buck". From what I have read so far, is that when you go to that kit, to have it properly tuned and installed it is going to cost big bucks. I don't have big bucks so it is increasingly becoming a no-option for me.
The Greddy does start it's maximum boost lower than centerfugial types, but there still is lag.
The roots type blowers with something like a 7psi setup instead of the stock setup seems to me to be an awesome bang for your buck.
With just a stillin blower and very wide rear 17" tires I could turn my z into a pretty scarey 1/4mi car with realativly low cost on my part.
I just don't want to change my hood at all. Besides the extra cost of it, everyone who sees it would instantly know I'm packing. Also, our cars are dead sexy and I wouldn't want to screw with that.
Has anyone heard projected boost/hp numbers from the Dream Works SC? If they can outperform the Stillen and still keep my hood intact then they appeal to me greatly.
The Greddy seems to be a big bang, but I don't know about "for your buck". From what I have read so far, is that when you go to that kit, to have it properly tuned and installed it is going to cost big bucks. I don't have big bucks so it is increasingly becoming a no-option for me.
The Greddy does start it's maximum boost lower than centerfugial types, but there still is lag.
The roots type blowers with something like a 7psi setup instead of the stock setup seems to me to be an awesome bang for your buck.
With just a stillin blower and very wide rear 17" tires I could turn my z into a pretty scarey 1/4mi car with realativly low cost on my part.
I just don't want to change my hood at all. Besides the extra cost of it, everyone who sees it would instantly know I'm packing. Also, our cars are dead sexy and I wouldn't want to screw with that.
Has anyone heard projected boost/hp numbers from the Dream Works SC? If they can outperform the Stillen and still keep my hood intact then they appeal to me greatly.
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From: Maryland
Originally posted by fluidz
This topic is gay now.....they are all good
This topic is gay now.....they are all good
It seems to me from the feedback so far, that basicly the ATI is the best bang for buck if you want to brag about hp numbers and are not so much a 1/4mi person.
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From: SF Bay Area
Stillen labor costs
Originally posted by BLOBYU
Also... doesn't STILLEN offer the Intercooled blower and for something like $80 you can add a 7lb. pulley... gotta go to their site.... hold on... ok.
Typical stock z dynos at around 235 to the rear wheels.
Supercharger w/Intercooler: $5239
Hood: $649.00
7lb. Pulley: $80
TOTAL HP TO THE WHEELS: 348.50 (425 AT THE FLYWHEEL ACCORDING TO STILLEN SALES MANAGER and 18% DRIVETRAIN LOSS MAKES 348.50)
TOTAL NET GAIN = 113.50
TOTAL NET COST = $5968 (no additional pumps, timing control, injectors, clutch, ECU reflash needed)
5968/113.50 = ..... That makes $52.58 per Horsepower.
And according to the guy from Stillen who posts here, you can put the 6lb pully on to be street legal and have an engine warranty. I'm not sure why there is any question as to which is better.
Doc - as far as cost per HP, you're correct, the ATI wins. But you are one of the few and the proud who had the money to make the thing work correctly. I think if you actually stated what the WHOLE setup costed you not just their blower cost, you would be talking about a different number... like reflashing ECU and such.
Sorry, but I have to go with a reliable system (or turbo). If you're looking for the bang for the buck, You just found it. ....and no wadded up motors. I'll take peace of mind knowing I won't have any stress.
Stress costs money, sleep, .... and makes people have to see the doctor....
One more thing that doesn't really affect the outcome of the costs per HP - assuming 250 RWHP was used for both of your comparison.....Dr. Bonz - You must have gotten a cherry Z to be saying the stock HP to the wheels is 250. I wanna know where one of those is available.
My .02: That's what zo cool about Amorica - freedom to choose wisely!
NOSty Mahn-
Also... doesn't STILLEN offer the Intercooled blower and for something like $80 you can add a 7lb. pulley... gotta go to their site.... hold on... ok.
Typical stock z dynos at around 235 to the rear wheels.
Supercharger w/Intercooler: $5239
Hood: $649.00
7lb. Pulley: $80
TOTAL HP TO THE WHEELS: 348.50 (425 AT THE FLYWHEEL ACCORDING TO STILLEN SALES MANAGER and 18% DRIVETRAIN LOSS MAKES 348.50)
TOTAL NET GAIN = 113.50
TOTAL NET COST = $5968 (no additional pumps, timing control, injectors, clutch, ECU reflash needed)
5968/113.50 = ..... That makes $52.58 per Horsepower.
And according to the guy from Stillen who posts here, you can put the 6lb pully on to be street legal and have an engine warranty. I'm not sure why there is any question as to which is better.
Doc - as far as cost per HP, you're correct, the ATI wins. But you are one of the few and the proud who had the money to make the thing work correctly. I think if you actually stated what the WHOLE setup costed you not just their blower cost, you would be talking about a different number... like reflashing ECU and such.
Sorry, but I have to go with a reliable system (or turbo). If you're looking for the bang for the buck, You just found it. ....and no wadded up motors. I'll take peace of mind knowing I won't have any stress.
Stress costs money, sleep, .... and makes people have to see the doctor....
One more thing that doesn't really affect the outcome of the costs per HP - assuming 250 RWHP was used for both of your comparison.....Dr. Bonz - You must have gotten a cherry Z to be saying the stock HP to the wheels is 250. I wanna know where one of those is available.
My .02: That's what zo cool about Amorica - freedom to choose wisely!
NOSty Mahn-
***Assuming the Stillen quote does not include labor, any idea what they get for the install? Thanks for the info.
Re: Yeah......
Originally posted by BLOBYU
When was the last time anyone heard of ATI building Nissan systems? They rushed to be first with the most power .... And considering the analysis above, people wonder why motors are wadding up from improper air/fuel management, computer timing issues, fuel hoses popping off, no warranties, not street legal. If you search this site, you'll find all of these things. Why is everyone surprised??? And why would you continue to buy them? Isn't that a bit silly?
When was the last time anyone heard of ATI building Nissan systems? They rushed to be first with the most power .... And considering the analysis above, people wonder why motors are wadding up from improper air/fuel management, computer timing issues, fuel hoses popping off, no warranties, not street legal. If you search this site, you'll find all of these things. Why is everyone surprised??? And why would you continue to buy them? Isn't that a bit silly?
Originally posted by skk100
I have 340 RWHP on a Stillen 7 pound intercooled SC. We will see next month on how each of the cars did at the track and the drag when the Sport Z article comes out.
I have 340 RWHP on a Stillen 7 pound intercooled SC. We will see next month on how each of the cars did at the track and the drag when the Sport Z article comes out.
Do you have pics?
Also, are you runing UR pullies with the SC or is that not recomended?
Originally posted by Jax350z
It seems to me from the feedback so far, that basicly the ATI is the best bang for buck if you want to brag about hp numbers and are not so much a 1/4mi person.
The Greddy seems to be a big bang, but I don't know about "for your buck". From what I have read so far, is that when you go to that kit, to have it properly tuned and installed it is going to cost big bucks. I don't have big bucks so it is increasingly becoming a no-option for me.
The Greddy does start it's maximum boost lower than centerfugial types, but there still is lag.
The roots type blowers with something like a 7psi setup instead of the stock setup seems to me to be an awesome bang for your buck.
With just a stillin blower and very wide rear 17" tires I could turn my z into a pretty scarey 1/4mi car with realativly low cost on my part.
I just don't want to change my hood at all. Besides the extra cost of it, everyone who sees it would instantly know I'm packing. Also, our cars are dead sexy and I wouldn't want to screw with that.
Has anyone heard projected boost/hp numbers from the Dream Works SC? If they can outperform the Stillen and still keep my hood intact then they appeal to me greatly.
It seems to me from the feedback so far, that basicly the ATI is the best bang for buck if you want to brag about hp numbers and are not so much a 1/4mi person.
The Greddy seems to be a big bang, but I don't know about "for your buck". From what I have read so far, is that when you go to that kit, to have it properly tuned and installed it is going to cost big bucks. I don't have big bucks so it is increasingly becoming a no-option for me.
The Greddy does start it's maximum boost lower than centerfugial types, but there still is lag.
The roots type blowers with something like a 7psi setup instead of the stock setup seems to me to be an awesome bang for your buck.
With just a stillin blower and very wide rear 17" tires I could turn my z into a pretty scarey 1/4mi car with realativly low cost on my part.
I just don't want to change my hood at all. Besides the extra cost of it, everyone who sees it would instantly know I'm packing. Also, our cars are dead sexy and I wouldn't want to screw with that.
Has anyone heard projected boost/hp numbers from the Dream Works SC? If they can outperform the Stillen and still keep my hood intact then they appeal to me greatly.
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From: central ny
Guys, guys, guys..I've said it before and I'll say it again. If want real gains, go here: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/rodi/torfuelsav1.html
muahah. Seriously though, can someone please give accurate estimations of 1/4 mile times for the different FI kits? That's more imporant than a dyno IMO.
EDIT: OMG that POS sells for 65 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
muahah. Seriously though, can someone please give accurate estimations of 1/4 mile times for the different FI kits? That's more imporant than a dyno IMO.
EDIT: OMG that POS sells for 65 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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From: Wilkes-Barre, Pa
Originally posted by FLY BY Z
The Cobra guys replace the stock blower with the Kenne Bell roots blower to make 600. The guys that put out 800+ are running the Procharger!!!!!!! A roots type is going to give instant off idle boost, while a centrifigal is going to have some spool time up to full power (even if it is less than a turbo). The roots blower is going to reach max potential at a low RPM but they genereally have a lower spin potential and will drop the power off earlier. A centri will make the power and spin faster in higher RPMs which always shows higher power numbers (power increases with RPM).
The Cobra guys replace the stock blower with the Kenne Bell roots blower to make 600. The guys that put out 800+ are running the Procharger!!!!!!! A roots type is going to give instant off idle boost, while a centrifigal is going to have some spool time up to full power (even if it is less than a turbo). The roots blower is going to reach max potential at a low RPM but they genereally have a lower spin potential and will drop the power off earlier. A centri will make the power and spin faster in higher RPMs which always shows higher power numbers (power increases with RPM).
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From: Vortechville,CA
Originally posted by daking350
Heres my ATI DYNO...so much for the theory that the Stillen makes more TQ down low then the ATI...I am making 318ft-lbs of TQ @ 3,700 rpms..Can a Stillen guy beat that???
Heres my ATI DYNO...so much for the theory that the Stillen makes more TQ down low then the ATI...I am making 318ft-lbs of TQ @ 3,700 rpms..Can a Stillen guy beat that???
LOL.....my nitrous with only 55 hp jets makes almost 312lbs of torque , but thats at 1,800rpm.......Centrifical superchargers SUCK when it comes to torque period.
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From: Wilkes-Barre, Pa
Originally posted by fluidz
LOL.....my nitrous with only 55 hp jets makes almost 312lbs of torque , but thats at 1,800rpm.......Centrifical superchargers SUCK when it comes to torque period.
LOL.....my nitrous with only 55 hp jets makes almost 312lbs of torque , but thats at 1,800rpm.......Centrifical superchargers SUCK when it comes to torque period.
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From: east coast
Originally posted by fluidz
LOL.....my nitrous with only 55 hp jets makes almost 312lbs of torque , but thats at 1,800rpm.......Centrifical superchargers SUCK when it comes to torque period.
LOL.....my nitrous with only 55 hp jets makes almost 312lbs of torque , but thats at 1,800rpm.......Centrifical superchargers SUCK when it comes to torque period.
I am still waiting to see a Stillen sc dyno....NO PROOF!!!
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Oct 29, 2020 07:44 PM
a1, bang, buck, bucks, chart, cheapest, keene, my350z, nitrous, screw, stillen, supercharger, superchargers, turbocharger, twin
