NA/supercharger E85 build - MY350Z.COM - Nissan 350Z and 370Z Forum Discussion



Forced Induction Turbochargers and Superchargers..Got Boost?

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Old 08-03-2015, 04:31 AM   #1
350z-Helsinki
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Default NA/supercharger E85 build

To make a long story short I need a new engine and I made this thread to help others and get valuable info that would help me choose the right parts for the build.

The car has done 100 000 km (63 000 miles) and it has seen many track days. This hasn't been my lucky year since I first broke the supercharger (HKS7040) when I tried to change a smaller pulley. Then I converted it back to NA to participate in some track events and now the car has started to burn oil and it puffs a cloud of smoke after start.

I did a leak down test and a compression test. Compression was ok, but a leak down test showed 15 % leakage in cylinders 3 and 4. Cylinders 5 and 6 show 10 % leakage and 1 & 2 are close to 5 %. Engine looses oil and exhaust gasses smell bad.

A short history of the car:

Bought in 2007 and tracked ever since.
It's an early 2004 model.

Biggest mods made to the car are (not all):

Engine, fuel and exhaust:
  • Uprev Osiris
  • Motordyne plenum spacer
  • HKS GT supercharger kit (broken supercharger at the moment)
  • CMJ stage 0
  • DW600 injectors
  • high flow fuel pump + additional pump to solve fuel starvation in corners
  • Bigger oil pan
  • CNT racing cats
  • Greddy Evo2 exhaust

Cooling:
  • Koyo 53mm radiator
  • Mishimoto Fans
  • Silicone hoses
  • Mocal 19 row oil cooler, (oil warmer removed, mocal thermostat)


Drivetrain:
  • CD009
  • Quaife diff
  • SPL solid/whiteline bushings
  • Southbend stage 3 clutch
  • Fidanza flywheel

Brakes & Suspension
  • BC racing ER coilovers
  • Stillen swaybars and Powergrid end links
  • SPC camber arms
  • Kinetix A-arms
  • Tein tie rods SPL rod end links
  • Akebono BBK with Ferodo ds2500


My goals for the build are in this priority:
  1. Reliable
  2. Rev happy engine with instant throttle response
  3. Relatively cheap < 10k$
  4. Power at least 400 rwhp but not over 500whp

Restrictions:
  • Yearly MOT -> no turbocharging (supercharger must be relatively easy to dismantle)
  • I will drive the car to track. It can be a 400 mile trip

Plans (so far good advice needed):

Stage 1 (NA)
Items in bold are bought

Wiseco pistons 11:1
Tomei headers
Eagle rods
Revup oil pump
HR head gasket
Pathfinder-mod
King main and rod bearings
L19 Head bolts
ARP main studs
JWT C2 cams
JWT springs
Polyurethane engine mounts
OEM gaskets
(Am I missing something? Other than a dry sump )

Stage 2 (supercharged)


HKS 8555 kit
Uprev GT maf
Total price estimation around 7k$



Last edited by 350z-Helsinki; 04-13-2016 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Updated to current situation
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Old 08-03-2015, 02:16 PM   #2
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Why are you going with a HKS supercharger and not a Vortech kit? Yes it's a little more expensive but a WAY better kit with a lot more potential.
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Old 08-03-2015, 11:55 PM   #3
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There are a two main reasons. First as you said is the price. It's only 2k€ to replace the broken supercharger, but then my power will be limited around 350whp. This would be a reliable setup and it felt fast enough for track use and for my skills. However there is the risk that I would like to have more power in the long run.

The bigger 8550 with all the required custom tubing, new intercoolers, etc. isn't that cheap anymore. But the reason why I like it over the Vortech is that it's almost silent under 4k rpm. And since it's an illegal setup in my country, I don't want to cause too much unwanted attention.

Full kits could be legal if they have TUV approval (similar to CARB), but in my case a tuner kit would make a lot more sense. But I have to give the Vortech some thought. It would be a simple bolt-on solution that would give me the power I'm looking for.

On Vortech site it says that if you track the car a V2 would be better. I don't think you can add an oil cooler to V3 like in the HKS kit? So V2 Si/Sci or V2 Ti-trim are my best options if I choose Vortech?

Last edited by 350z-Helsinki; 08-04-2015 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 08-04-2015, 04:08 AM   #4
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Ask around I think people have tracked there V3's. But if you want to make good power and never look back V2 Ti it has been proven to make over 600 with the VQ and your running Higher compression with E-85 you can crank up that timing so you want need a lot of boost to go fast.
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:39 PM   #5
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I found out that I can buy a new GTS7040 from Vividracing for 1200$. It makes sense to complete my old kit. It's worthless without a working supercharger. I can always sell it if I feel like I need more power. But I think it will do for now.

I think 600whp would be overkill considering my skill level and reliability as a track car. At the end of the day I just want to show up at the track and have fun. The cost of going bigger is around 5k$ and at the moment it makes more sense to me to spend that money to half cage, 6-point harnesses and getting a set of 10,5x18 RPF1 wheels with track compound tires. Of course the smartest thing would be not to spend any money that I don't currently have.

My brother has a 997.2 GT3 and that's pretty much what I'm trying to achieve with my car in the long run. I think it's fast enough. Those dyno around 400whp stock. With the GTS7040 supercharger, smaller pulley, plenum spacer, full exhaust and E85 I should be around 350-380 whp. The bigger 8555 would probably give me the 400whp I'm looking for.
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Old 10-06-2015, 01:03 AM   #6
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Time to start the build.
First thing to do is get the engine out. Next monday I will remove the AC fluids in a shop and start the teardown.

I have a lift so I'm thinking that I might try the service manual method of dropping the engine with the cross member. What I don't have is a engine jack/table so I'm not so sure how to do it. I guess I could just place a pallet under the engine and lift the car off.

Another option would be the traditional way of removing the front portion of the car and pulling it out with an engine hoist. The front has intercooler, oil cooler, etc. So I guess it would be a bit more time consuming.

Any recommendations or tips?
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:32 PM   #7
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I took a few days off from work and started the tear down. I decided to follow the instructions in the service manual since I have a lift and I could use the same method.

There was only one odd thing in the instructions. It said that you need to remove the wipers and the plastics around the windshield. Actually it wouldn’t have been necessary. Also the removal of hood is (in my opinion) optional if you drop the engine. If I would do it again I would definitely leave those in place.

Dropping the engine was actually more simple than I thought. The teardown part was a bit harder though. Removal of the timing cover took quite some time. Make sure you have removed all the bolts before you attempt to remove the cover! There are two hidden bolts for both the front and back cover that bolt from underneath. For me it was the huge 19mm bolt in the front cover that I was missed. LOL…

The chain tensioner was hard to remove. I couldn’t get it to press in no matter how hard I tried so I just unbolted it. Of course when I got it off I got the idea how to compress it.

Another surprise was that there was still lots of water inside the heads and water pump. (Big surprise brainiac) So don’t disassemble your long block in house.

Then I forgot that the flywheel is attached with T55 Torx bits. I only had a 3/8" T55 and no adapter to my 1/2" impact gun so I had to keep the flywheel on. That is why I have the long bolts and kept the engine lift attached just in case.

Last issue was when I was trying to remove the camshafts. Camshaft sprockets were on super tight. I had to use a breaker bar and extension to wrench to get those off. Make sure you loosen all the Camshaft brackets in small increments simultaneously. This includes the front brackets also! (I messed that one up and I have to check my cams)

Now it’s time to order some parts and put it back together again!



Here is a few pics of the tear down.

































Last edited by 350z-Helsinki; 10-20-2015 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 11-01-2015, 02:22 AM   #8
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I'm starting to order some parts and I'm looking for some opinions. Idea is to use E85 and high compression 10-11:1. My question is can I just order some na pistons. Or are those fundamentally different to FI pistons? Or do I need to order custom pistons to high comp FI.

Car won't see too much boost.

Last edited by 350z-Helsinki; 11-02-2015 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 11-01-2015, 04:47 AM   #9
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Im running 11:1 on 91oct with my procharger. You'll be fine!
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Old 11-02-2015, 02:54 AM   #10
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Thanks for the answer!

The next big question is the cams. Initially I thought that I will go with stock cams. But I really wan't to feel that power ramp up all the way to the raised redline.

I really think that JWT knows their stuff so I will probably get JWT cams. The next question is which would be the right choice?

I'm thinking either JWT C2
http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/cus...asp?PartID=461

Or JWT S2
http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/cus...asp?PartID=459

Maybe even the C8, but I have some doubts about that since I live in Finland which has all the emission ******** of California, but no sunshine and pretty girls. I don't think a big cam and a lopey idle is an option since it might not pass the yearly emission test.
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Old 11-20-2015, 12:05 AM   #11
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I contacted JWT and decided to go with the C2 cams.
Waiting for those black friday sales before I pull the trigger.

My budget came down a bit since I bought a Caterham. Freaking awensome car. Everybody should try one. The amount of feed back from the steering and response is staggering.




Well back to the Z. I will cut my budget by changing ARP bolts to OEM and Cosworth headgasket to OEM gasket. My power levels will stay under 500 whp so OEM bolts and gaskets should be strong enough.

I measured the connecting rod side clearance and it was a bit off. Highest value was 0,7 mm while the service manual says the limit is 0,4 mm. I did this just for referenc and I hope that with the new rods I will get the clearance to spec.

There were no big surprises in the disassemble. I just followed the instructions in the service manual. The main caps need an E14 torx female socket and rod bolts need a 10mm 12 point socket.

Here is a link to few pics I took during the disassemble.

https://goo.gl/photos/Z7nXcZVn3hZKbx718

Last edited by 350z-Helsinki; 11-20-2015 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:42 PM   #12
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nice car
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:24 PM   #13
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Thanks!

Parts are on back order so this is delaying the assembly.
I try to get the piston specs and clearances from Wiseco so I could prep the block.
Other than that there isn't much to do.
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Old 12-11-2015, 06:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 350z-Helsinki View Post

Well back to the Z. I will cut my budget by changing ARP bolts to OEM and Cosworth headgasket to OEM gasket. My power levels will stay under 500 whp so OEM bolts and gaskets should be strong enough.
personally I think this is the last place to save money. any boosted application with this engine I would put my first focus on keeping the heads sealed to the block. Just my opinion
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Old 12-21-2015, 01:49 AM   #15
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I guess it depends on power goals. I'm really interested to know if there are cars around 400-450 whp lifting heads with Juke bolts. If so it's not too late to make some changes since the parts are still on back order.
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Old 04-13-2016, 08:18 PM   #16
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A small change of plans. HKS is making a new suprcharger kit with the bigger 8555 supercharger, so that's what I'm going with.

I ordered the OEM bolts, but decided to play it safe later and got some ARP L19 head bolts and Arp main bolts. Next step is to buy Uprev Maf and 1000cc injectors to handle the ethanol and the bigger SC.

How much flow OEM fuel rails can handle? If I drill out the restriction will it be ok with 1000cc or do I need CJM rails. Block is currently at the machine shop. I'm hoping to get this finished during the summer, but lets see how things progress.


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Old 04-14-2016, 03:56 AM   #17
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So why not a vortech?
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Old 04-14-2016, 08:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conway_160 View Post
So why not a vortech?
It's noisy and since it's illegal in my country I don't want to create unwanted attention. I have gone theough quite a few Vortech threads and belt slip and destroyed bearings seem a bit too common. But of course people who have issues with Vortech make more noise than those who don't.

I know YSi would make sweet power, but I would like to keep it reliable and simple. I'm stretching the budget as it is and with Vortech I see no other choices than ysi, dual pumps, fuel rails, haltech, etc. All of that combined means $.

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Old 04-14-2016, 09:13 AM   #19
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If you want quite then turbo. ALL superchargers will make noise, prochergers being the loudest from my understanding.
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Old 04-14-2016, 10:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conway_160 View Post
If you want quite then turbo. ALL superchargers will make noise, prochergers being the loudest from my understanding.
Turbo is just too much work to disassembly yearly. The smaller HKS 7040 supercharger was quiet enough. Hopefully the 8555 will be similar.
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