miksa350z

Hey all, I have been doing some research after going through the FI sticky for noobs and was looking to do FI in the future for my '08 HR. I am interested in AAM's setup simply because it is upgradeable. I really want to be in the 400-450hp range right now but the key is I don't want to blow it up. I inquired about AAM's setup and I might be able to get their competition setup for sponsorship pricing so I need to decide quickly if I want to do this or not. I've been searching basically on daily driving and reliability, not more on how much HP I can get out of it. I've read a few reviews but maybe I am using the wrong search terms and I haven't been coming up with many results. I've read the stock drivetrain can handle 550ish HP but what are your takes on it? I drive a minimum of 110 miles a day, mostly highway down in TX. I do plan on building the engine in the future but for right now I am more interested in how well it will handle the 400-450 range as a daily. I have never done FI with any of my cars and it has always been a concern as I have read the horror stories. I am aware there may be some flaming which is fine but I am really asking for y'alls opinion on the matter. The car has 61,000 miles, it wasn't driven hard during it's life. What kind of reliability should I expect? Beyond the TT kit, what other costs am I looking at? Or would it be better to wait until I can build up the engine and do the TT at the same time? I can usually put away 10-12k a year no problem, which was my original plan to begin with. But if I could get a decent discount for the TT setup it would help my future goals. Thanks!

turboed350z

ok, first thing first understand that an engine can blow at any time, no "safe" number out there. you might be able to get away with 500 or you might blow at 350. no one knows.

after understanding that, do a compression test on your car. that will let you get an idea of how healthy it is and if it can safely boosted.

if you do decide to boost, understand that unless youre CONSTANTLY at max psi, you wont be seeing the full 4-450hp. outside of boost, it behaves just as a normal stock 350z would. your in texas, heat will be your biggest enemy.

now with all that out the way, side costs for a boosted car outside of turbo and intercooler are, injectors, fuel pump, oil cooler, suspension components (whats power if you cant lay it on the asphalt.) gauges and sensors. basically, price out the turbo, and double or tripple it and youll get a rough idea of the cost.

and before mic can say anything, driving school will be your best friend

miksa350z

Awesome, that is exactly what I was looking for. So basically if the cost of the kit is a pressing issue then I really can't afford to do this type of setup right now. And I keep forgetting about the heat, I used to live up north where it wasn't really a factor. I will take your advice though and get compression testing done. Realistically I am looking in the 20k+ range, which makes sense, I am not one to jump the gun and take the time to do it the right way not trying to skimp on cost (a lesson most of us had to learn the hard way). I really don't want to get into the 500 range just yet, I would honestly run it at probably the minimum of 6-8psi, I just want a little more out of it but at the same time I don't mind spending the extra for a high quality product and an over engineered engine, does it sound crazy?


As for driving school I can safely say that is one thing I have already done . I have done several track schools, auto cross schools, safety schools you name it. The first class I did was the EVO autocross school, which taught me a lot about autocrossing and also the basics about adjusting my suspension back when I was 17. Since then I was involved with BMWCCA and the SCCA, did Skip Barber at Lime Rock, various BMWCCA schools. I used to race a mean '91 318is, believe it or not but it was quick around a tight autocross course. The Boston chapter started to open up their tight courses because my little 318is was competing for the fastest times of the day over their fastest M3's. Granted I gutted the car, it weighed nothing and Turner had a field day with my suspension on that car, tuned to Group N standards (it was absolutely not streetable haha).

Pengu

iTrader: (9)

Seems like you've done a bit of research, and nice job on getting track time (something I need to do). The above post are very accurate.

What is your current budget? 20k? Do a compression test and if you get good numbers aim for low boost if that's what you're looking for. Maybe a 50/50 meth injection to control the heating issues. With that and a good tune you could run 400ish reliable.

Like the above post said though any engine could blow anytime. But, there are ways to be cautious and prevent some catastrophes.

turboed350z

other things you would like to know is, our clutch sucks, they cant handle much power over stock.

headers arent worth the trouble, and a kinetix pleneum is a good with boosted cars. chances are your whole exhaust will need to be fabricated.

im sure theres more on the list, but you get the idea. boosting a car properly goes beyond just the turbo

Pengu

iTrader: (9)

I've seen a lot of shops fabricate the exhaust portion to the mid pipe area and then connect whatever exhaust they already had. This is based on the assumption they already have a aftermarket exhaust of course.

Agreed on the rest as well, once you actually price things out it keeps adding up.

I've never gone FI in a Z but have done a lot of research. I don't tend to come off as a know it all or anything either, just trying to help. Just a disclaimer.

turboed350z

yea it depends on the kit. usually its a reverse y pipe. mine had to be altered. i believe even stock exhaust will need to be alter for most kit.

yea, prices adds up and they do quickly. thats why i told how to double/triple the price of the turbo. and thats assuming everything goes as planned. if something breaks the price can even double/triple the original quoted price.

my advice is, if he can get the kit super cheap now, do it and just not install it until he gets everything else.

miksa350z

Thanks again for all the advice guys, it's really what I was looking for... honesty. The issue with this deal it's for R&D and the car would have to go to them for the install, tune, etc. It's for AAM, supposed to be pretty much OEM claim from their post in this section. But like you guys said if I don't take the proper precautions there is that chance saving a few thousand on the kit now could cost me many, many more thousands down the road. Which I'll be honest coming from driving an economic car while I got my house to this was a huge upgrade haha. But I keep running into moderately tuned Camaro and Mustangs, 335i which with a tune can get 100hp and gobs of torque really made me want to jump into the TT. But I forgot how well the Z handled, I actually test drove the 07 335i and I really liked the 350z handling better call me crazy. And that's coming from someone who has owned 5 bmw cars in his lifetime. 3 of which were m3s. I'm going to schedule a compression test, see how that goes while saving up some cash again. I'll get a good lump some together and do everything all in one shot probably. Much appreciated guys!

turboed350z

dont worry about the camaro and mustang boys, even if you did tt, it wouldnt make a difference. our car sucks so much at hooking up, that the american boys will have us beat before our tires stop spining. theyre running 13s stock. lightly modded and tune and theyre mid 12s easy. hell, i dont even bother with them anymore, these guys are putting so much power and tq that the only chance we have is from a roll or on the circuit.

miksa350z

That's a good point, and most of them won't even dare to go down the roads with corners it's really funny. Man where I live I have some AMAZING roads to drive down, I live in the hill country. We have this one highway called 1431 that goes through my town and rolls through the hills. I've been driving that at night and the Z loves it. It is tight cornered, has some long sweeping high speed sections, uphill corners, downhill... it's one hell of a technical drive. I only managed to bait a couple of kids in a charger srt8 down there, they had no clue how to drive. They kept toying with me on the 2 lane section until I managed to bait them to let me get ahead right when it turned I to 1 lane and from then on out it's corner after corner. Lost sight of them after the second turn after about 3 more turns I just slowed it down. They just couldn't drive. But yup this is Texas all v8 muscle and too many straight roads lol and most of the kids barely know what a driving line or racing line is.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

My two cents would be not to turbo this car if this is your daily driver and you intend to drive this 110 miles per day until the day it leaves your driveway.

If you really want to sink this much money (I agree with the triple the cost of the turbo kit method) into a car, which I highly recommend, I would not do it to a car that is depreciating as fast as you are currently depreciating it...not to mention that (if) WHEN something goes wrong you are going to be 30 or 40 miles (depending on how good karma will be to you) from either your home, your work or a trust worthy shop ... and I cant imagine you'd want to leave this car you just sank $15k into on the side of the road for hours on end.

my further advice would be to look into a car that gets decent gas mileage for your commute and dump a **** ton of time and money into the HR and have a killer weekend whip and/or something you can take to the office a few times per month.

Or, if you want to keep the HR as your daily - go find a DE for super cheap and build the **** out of it - plenty of parts/more turbo options (the ability to go twins), relatively inexpensive and you'll be that guy that has two bad *** z cars!

The best thing I did was buy a junker truck (which was later upgraded to a 11th gen F150). Especially in colorado where there are week/months where it's completely impractical to drive the z.

great start and keep the forum updated ... start a build thread once you get there!

pre-sub'd

miksa350z

I was actually thinking about getting a beater the gas mileage is a little rough I could sink those extra tanks into a build. As far as depreciation I don't mind that. I believe it's all about finding a car you love and that you truly enjoy driving and building it the way you want it. Will there be other cars in my life? You better believe it... but I love these Z's, truly underrated. I think my plan is kind of what you guys suggested. I'll still daily this car for right now... but I don't know how a compression test would go so I'm going to start looking for a bottom end, and then build something from the bottom up which will fix the compression issue and at the same time if I blow the engine I have my original engine as a backup. Until I get a second car. So it may take a few years but it will be worth it maybe I can get a good used kit if I wait :-P

travlee

iTrader: (8)

does aam make a kit for the HR?

turboed350z

Solid advice! But i just want to throw in, i have free towing with my insurance lol

Phenom

iTrader: (4)

They're working on it at the moment. I spoke with them last summer/fall about allowing them to use car during the R&D process for a discounted kit but eventually decided against it.

miksa350z

Yup AAM is almost done with their kit, it sounded like they really needed like one more car to finish up with the kit. Don't get me wrong I will probably get the kit in the future, it's beautiful and I love the turbos they offer they are awesome. But the discounts are for installation and tuning services. You still foot the bill for the retail price of the kit of 10.5k. Is it worth the 10k? I would pay it if I had the money together and wanted a kit, it's solid and I love the OEM fitment and it should be easy for a good shop to install. But right now I spent the money on the car and I've been mostly researching the costs instead of purchasing. I could get a loan but then I have a TT kit on a stock base model and I have way too much to consider before I get into the FI game. Plus I'm probably getting another promotion within the year. I'll be honest, I'm an assistant manager at Walmart, I gross just under 50k a year, if I hit a bonus, that could be my turbo kit money but it's an annual bonus which is tough in my store to max. With the promotion to a comanager its starting around 70k (I know crazy for Wally word but it's the god honest truth) and I'll have have the proper income to do what I want to do. I'm going to do this right, I have the patience. Even if it took 2 years I'm more than willing. I want to build an engine from the ground up, build it to handle 600+ whp then decide on the FI. I spoke with someone about a shop in San Antonio and he is having a good experience, under 10k for the whole deal including building an engine looking at 600+hp it seems. I may go that route. Custom built, use quality parts, durable strong parts, and get the same results safely. By then I will be looking at getting a second car, maybe a DE or possibly go with another used m3 or 328/330 just for a daily. You can get a mint 2008 328i for 10 to 12k in Dallas. Heck I may even get a Miata flame away but those cars are FUN. Total cost, it seems obscene to some but I'm going to keep this car, and I have been looking at getting on the track again (Circuit of America in Austin does some track days I believe) and that's what I would be doing. Drive it a few days a week, bring it out on the track. They do a BIG racing event every few years in Texas which would be fun I forget where but it's huge and you choose a speed class and you must have an average speed throughout the race. So I'm blabbing on, but again appreciate all your honesty and help. I can be quick to pull the trigger but I always ask first. Now I have some research to do. Do I build off a stock block or do I get a block made, where do I find such a thing, where do I look? Lots of lurking to do :-).

Juztin

iTrader: (9)

Coming from a 07 TT HR, expect your baseline costs, and multiply it by 3 to more 'safely' budget. This car is very expensive to TT. As others have mentioned, I would not do this to a daily driver, FI in general will introduce a whole new set of problems from wear and tear; which will be different from NA. My HR ran 505/496 for a couple years with the stock clutch, but it was not my daily; so the mileage was not a lot on it, just weekend cruising.

Building the motor and all the surrounding upgrades to the existing TT kit in the end probably ran in the 20K range - I don't care to tally it up as it may be even higher than that. There is a lot of indirect costs, including all the surrounding upgrades that have to be done if you want a 'stable' build aside from just a block for 600hp. If you do all the work yourself, I think you'll still be above 10K in parts, much less through a shop or shops if they can't do everything start to finish.

Also expect your car to be down for a while during the build. Mine was down 2.5 years, but I had shop woes as part of that 'fun' experience. And i've seen others down in the year to year(s) time frame. The best homework you can do is for the shop doing all the work. The parts combinations are very limited for the HR motor irregardless compared to the DE's or 37VHR's so there's not a lot to be indecisive on there.

If your already looking to take loan(s) out to TT and build, I'd say don't bother. Enjoy the car for what it is now and avoid getting those kind of financial shackles in the event anything goes wrong as there are undoubtedly risks. At least until you have the financials to throw that kinda money away and not hurt from it or more.

miksa350z

Thanks for your insight sir, yeah I've been giving a lot of thought. Even thought of doing a NA build but still will be longevity issues. Well I'll definitely be waiting for my promotion Probably to pull the trigger. For now I'm just banking the money. How about supercharging? Similar issues I would assume, it's still forced induction but be more reliable?

Pengu

iTrader: (9)

N/A builds are extremely expensive and typically not worth the money. That is my opinion and many others on this forum. Do the typically bolt ons and tune and that's the best money spent N/A wise.

turboed350z

For the price of N/A you might as well just spray.

Idk why everyone says a boosted car has reliability problems. If its well build, build right, uses quality parts, i dont see how reliability is an issue. But then again, all my car have always been build and no corners cut, so i dont know about reliability issues. My saleen was fine when i sold it. My 350z is still kicking ***, so idk, maybe its just me.