Sanity Check: Vortech Supercharger in my 07 350z
02-03-2016, 08:13 PM
#1
Sanity Check: Vortech Supercharger in my 07 350z
Hello!
I posted in the FAQ a week ago but I haven't gotten a response, so I'm going to make a thread instead. I read some of the FAQ, the first few pages and last 6 pages which goes back 2 years or so. I have a 2007 350z with about 46K mileage, K&N drop filters, Z1 hi flow cats, and MD Shockwave exhaust, along with suspension mods. As this is my daily driver and only car, I value stability and longevity first, and performance second. My goals are to have this car running for the next 50-75K mileage, and any HP north of 400 rwhp i'll be happy with. With the current mods, a dyno said I had 292 whp.
I want to get forced induction and a supercharger fits my purposes more then a ST/TT. So a V3 Vortech/Stillen it is. Their official V3 page was a bit sparse in specs so I emailed them and I got the following response:
I'm also planning on buying an upgraded oil cooler, Stillen recommended their SETRAB cooler for $488.
Based on above goals and parts, is there anything else I need? A local stillen dealer (PTUNNING, Manassass, VA) is doing the install.
I contacted PTUNNING and they said that 390 whp was more realistic then 400+. They also did my dyno a while back. And they said that "The Setrab coolers are what we use for our race cars, so I can surely say they can take abuse. I have seen two Mocal oil cooler corse burst under racing conditions, so I would probably stay away from that brand."
Am I missing anything? Can this build conceivably and reasonably last another 50-75K?
I posted in the FAQ a week ago but I haven't gotten a response, so I'm going to make a thread instead. I read some of the FAQ, the first few pages and last 6 pages which goes back 2 years or so. I have a 2007 350z with about 46K mileage, K&N drop filters, Z1 hi flow cats, and MD Shockwave exhaust, along with suspension mods. As this is my daily driver and only car, I value stability and longevity first, and performance second. My goals are to have this car running for the next 50-75K mileage, and any HP north of 400 rwhp i'll be happy with. With the current mods, a dyno said I had 292 whp.
I want to get forced induction and a supercharger fits my purposes more then a ST/TT. So a V3 Vortech/Stillen it is. Their official V3 page was a bit sparse in specs so I emailed them and I got the following response:
Originally Posted by Stillen Sales
Our complete kit includes:
-Vortech V-3 supercharger unit preinstalled on our solid billet bracket
-Aluminum cast intake manifold that houses an intercooler
-Heat exchanger
-Dual intake filter system
-Mandrel bent aluminum intake pipes
-Fuel pump
-600cc injectors
-2.87' Pulley
-UpRev tuning solution (already have),
-Plug and play wiring harness and all necessary mounting hardware, hoses, etc.
-Vortech V-3 supercharger unit preinstalled on our solid billet bracket
-Aluminum cast intake manifold that houses an intercooler
-Heat exchanger
-Dual intake filter system
-Mandrel bent aluminum intake pipes
-Fuel pump
-600cc injectors
-2.87' Pulley
-UpRev tuning solution (already have),
-Plug and play wiring harness and all necessary mounting hardware, hoses, etc.
Based on above goals and parts, is there anything else I need? A local stillen dealer (PTUNNING, Manassass, VA) is doing the install.
I contacted PTUNNING and they said that 390 whp was more realistic then 400+. They also did my dyno a while back. And they said that "The Setrab coolers are what we use for our race cars, so I can surely say they can take abuse. I have seen two Mocal oil cooler corse burst under racing conditions, so I would probably stay away from that brand."
Am I missing anything? Can this build conceivably and reasonably last another 50-75K?
02-03-2016, 08:48 PM
#2
350Z-holic
iTrader: (13)
You'll get 400+ and your 50k miles as long as your tune is relatively conservative, you don't abuse the car and you perform routine maintenance.
I would tell you to search the forum and/or ebay for a tested used setrab cooler (~$100) spend $100 on hoses and $50 on a filter sandwich plate and you'll be set for half the price.
You could look into a dampening crank pulley($350), possibly a return fuel system($800)...
I went from 246whp to 375whp (@8psi) with ATI prochargers setup on a OEM block and 455 (@13psi) with a built block and many supporting mods...so your HR block will pick up more than 110whp with a blower...
I would tell you to search the forum and/or ebay for a tested used setrab cooler (~$100) spend $100 on hoses and $50 on a filter sandwich plate and you'll be set for half the price.
You could look into a dampening crank pulley($350), possibly a return fuel system($800)...
I went from 246whp to 375whp (@8psi) with ATI prochargers setup on a OEM block and 455 (@13psi) with a built block and many supporting mods...so your HR block will pick up more than 110whp with a blower...
Last edited by bealljk; 02-03-2016 at 08:50 PM.
02-04-2016, 07:01 AM
#3
Thanks for replying so quickly. I don't like buying car parts off ebay, I only buy this off this site so I can view a history on the buyer. Right now, I don't see any used setrab coolers.
Questions:
1. Why spend $100 on hoses? The kit already comes with them, so would I be buying better ones?
2. I did some research last night into sandwich plates, they allow you to install fuel and temp sensors to the oil. Where would these sensors go? To an existing gauge in my dash or to a new one?
3. What impact on performance and/or longevity would a dampening crank pulley or a return fuel system have? Are there even ballpark numbers known here?
Questions:
1. Why spend $100 on hoses? The kit already comes with them, so would I be buying better ones?
2. I did some research last night into sandwich plates, they allow you to install fuel and temp sensors to the oil. Where would these sensors go? To an existing gauge in my dash or to a new one?
3. What impact on performance and/or longevity would a dampening crank pulley or a return fuel system have? Are there even ballpark numbers known here?
02-04-2016, 03:20 PM
#4
350Z-holic
iTrader: (13)
Of course, you have to know what you're looking for and looking at but I've bought plenty of used auto parts on ebay mostly from nascar teams - but thats me! Do as you please!
#1 - If you buy the kit then you wont need hoses, sandwich plate, or the cooler (obviously)
#2 - you wouldnt need to mount sensors to the sandwich plate unless you wanted to use an auxiliary gauges...the sandwich plate wouldnt interfere with any OEM sensors
#3 do some research on why people use a crankshaft dampening pulley and the benefits of a return fuel system.
#1 - If you buy the kit then you wont need hoses, sandwich plate, or the cooler (obviously)
#2 - you wouldnt need to mount sensors to the sandwich plate unless you wanted to use an auxiliary gauges...the sandwich plate wouldnt interfere with any OEM sensors
#3 do some research on why people use a crankshaft dampening pulley and the benefits of a return fuel system.
02-05-2016, 07:26 AM
#5
Ok so the dampener eliminates torsion, and for the HR engine, costs $389.. I see from the official ATI guide here that the 5.7 OEM size is what is paired with my car. Since its OEM size, do I need new belts?
For the fuel return system, if I want a conservative tune and don't want to break anything, would just the basic fuel return system $550 be good enough?. This would be as opposed to the higher end one for $890. If they have two options and I don't see why I shouldnt go with the lower one.
For the fuel return system, if I want a conservative tune and don't want to break anything, would just the basic fuel return system $550 be good enough?. This would be as opposed to the higher end one for $890. If they have two options and I don't see why I shouldnt go with the lower one.
Last edited by Rev_Night; 02-05-2016 at 07:35 AM.
02-10-2016, 06:48 AM
#6
Its a full kit, you dont need anything else.
V3 are internally lubricated. No need for a oil cooler, esp from the beginning. Install the full kit and go from there. You can watch your oil temps and decide from there. I never had a oil cooler on my vortech V3 and never had >200 temps.
Return system is a nice to have and can help even out fueling, but def not needed on a stock block 600cc injector build.
V3 are internally lubricated. No need for a oil cooler, esp from the beginning. Install the full kit and go from there. You can watch your oil temps and decide from there. I never had a oil cooler on my vortech V3 and never had >200 temps.
Return system is a nice to have and can help even out fueling, but def not needed on a stock block 600cc injector build.
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02-11-2016, 09:19 AM
#8
Gotcha. Thanks for your comments. I asked the same question to two vendors, one is Z1 Motorsports, and the other is the local Stillen dealer/performance shop of Ptunning, Manasssas Va. Special shoutout to Patrick at Ptunning, writes really well detailed emails to explain this stuff to me. Great customer service. And his recommendations are easier to believe because he is linking to other vendors for the parts. Sure maybe he gets the labor, but he only self-sourced 1 out of the 3 parts, and even then when I specifically pointed to his site.
Keep in mind, even if they aren't strictly needed, if they are going to substantially help longetivity down the road, i don't mind buying them.
Z1 Motorsports:
"They are not necessary but they are recommended for reliability."
PTUNING:
Keep in mind, even if they aren't strictly needed, if they are going to substantially help longetivity down the road, i don't mind buying them.
Z1 Motorsports:
"They are not necessary but they are recommended for reliability."
PTUNING:
Ptuning:
The Super Damper crank pulley can definitely help out with reliability since the rubber in the factory crank pulley can deteriorate over time and can potentially cause engine failure, but mostly on higher mileage engines. It can also help eliminate harmful crank vibrations. Here is a popular pulley people use: https://conceptzperformance.com/ati-...33_p_25524.php The return system completely slipped my mind since we didn’t really need it for the 370’s to hit 400WHP, but a return-style system will definitely give us enough fuel flow to support 400 WHP. Here is an AAM kit we’ve used before: http://www.enjukuracing.com/products...FQckhgodY7IP8A I don’t think it’s possible to ballpark how much more reliable it would be. Do you still have the factory clutch by the way?
The Super Damper crank pulley can definitely help out with reliability since the rubber in the factory crank pulley can deteriorate over time and can potentially cause engine failure, but mostly on higher mileage engines. It can also help eliminate harmful crank vibrations. Here is a popular pulley people use: https://conceptzperformance.com/ati-...33_p_25524.php The return system completely slipped my mind since we didn’t really need it for the 370’s to hit 400WHP, but a return-style system will definitely give us enough fuel flow to support 400 WHP. Here is an AAM kit we’ve used before: http://www.enjukuracing.com/products...FQckhgodY7IP8A I don’t think it’s possible to ballpark how much more reliable it would be. Do you still have the factory clutch by the way?
ME:
I'll buy the dampner since you seem so enthusiastic about it. For the fuel system, $500 for 10 extra whp doesn't seem like a great return, unless we can get alot more hp out of it and it offers strong reliability improvements. How much would it cost for you to install each of them?
And I have a stock clutch.
I'll buy the dampner since you seem so enthusiastic about it. For the fuel system, $500 for 10 extra whp doesn't seem like a great return, unless we can get alot more hp out of it and it offers strong reliability improvements. How much would it cost for you to install each of them?
And I have a stock clutch.
Ptuning:
The fuel system will make sure we have enough fuel to support your power goals. We technically don’t need it to make high 300’s, but at the same time we do not want your fuel system to be maxed out everytime you get into boost. It would be more reliable long-term if the fuel system was only working at 80% of its full potential so you do not put too much stress on it. I suggest upgrading the clutch before supercharging the Z. Here are our labor rates for installation:
The fuel system will make sure we have enough fuel to support your power goals. We technically don’t need it to make high 300’s, but at the same time we do not want your fuel system to be maxed out everytime you get into boost. It would be more reliable long-term if the fuel system was only working at 80% of its full potential so you do not put too much stress on it. I suggest upgrading the clutch before supercharging the Z. Here are our labor rates for installation:
ME:
Acknowledged about the fuel system and clutch. Is there a brand/model of clutch that you would recommend? What about flywheel, does that need to be replaced too?
Acknowledged about the fuel system and clutch. Is there a brand/model of clutch that you would recommend? What about flywheel, does that need to be replaced too?
Ptuning:
The flywheel does not necessarily need to be replaced since your car does not have a lot of miles on it. We would inspect your flywheel during the clutch installation and determine whether or not it will need to be resurfaced. If it does have a lot of hot spots, we will send it to the machine shop to get resurfaced ($125.00). We use Exedy, ACT and clutch masters. We tend to stay away from Spec and Competition Clutch due to issues in the past.
The flywheel does not necessarily need to be replaced since your car does not have a lot of miles on it. We would inspect your flywheel during the clutch installation and determine whether or not it will need to be resurfaced. If it does have a lot of hot spots, we will send it to the machine shop to get resurfaced ($125.00). We use Exedy, ACT and clutch masters. We tend to stay away from Spec and Competition Clutch due to issues in the past.
ME:
I see that Stillen doesnt offer any clutches, but you do on your website. Of the 3 ACT clutches, which would be the best for me and my goals? I don't drive the car every hard and only do track days once every other year or so at most.
I see that Stillen doesnt offer any clutches, but you do on your website. Of the 3 ACT clutches, which would be the best for me and my goals? I don't drive the car every hard and only do track days once every other year or so at most.
Ptuning:
http://www.ptuning.com/subdir/itemde...ModelDesc=350Z This clutch should be plenty for your goals. It is also the easiest one to drive out of the three since this one has a full-face disc (similar to factory).
http://www.ptuning.com/subdir/itemde...ModelDesc=350Z This clutch should be plenty for your goals. It is also the easiest one to drive out of the three since this one has a full-face disc (similar to factory).
ME:
Gotcha, i'll take that then, i'll buy it when I drop my car off. I am reading on the message boards about gear chatter, the ACT product page even mentions 'OE to mid gear rattle'. Is this very noticeable? I have no idea what this is going to sound like
Gotcha, i'll take that then, i'll buy it when I drop my car off. I am reading on the message boards about gear chatter, the ACT product page even mentions 'OE to mid gear rattle'. Is this very noticeable? I have no idea what this is going to sound like
Ptuning:
The chatter is more noticeable when you put an aftermarket flywheel on the car, which is why I suggested sticking with the factory flywheel.
The chatter is more noticeable when you put an aftermarket flywheel on the car, which is why I suggested sticking with the factory flywheel.
Last edited by Rev_Night; 02-11-2016 at 09:20 AM.
02-11-2016, 10:29 AM
#9
I would recommend to buy Stage 0 FRS from CJM. It is not for gaining more power it's for stability. Our stock fuel system designed for NA, now you are adding compressed air into your engine, and if you ran out of fuel under the WOT u ****ed. Stage 0 has fuel pressure regulator to help maintain your fuel pressure. Much more important than oil cooler.
See my build for details, I have Vortech SC on DE motor.
See my build for details, I have Vortech SC on DE motor.
Last edited by Staisman; 02-11-2016 at 10:34 AM.
02-11-2016, 02:38 PM
#11
For 400whp you don't need a return system. I would reccomend it if you wanted more hp down the road, but a 255lph/in tank replacement pump and injectors is all you actually need.
You shouldn't have fuel surge issues. You shouldn't have starvation issues. You really shouldn't even be pushing your pump.
You can run Osiris. I prefer Haltech for VE tuning (red boxes are real cheap now a days), but other than that, the Vortech kit is all you really need. I'm not sure what the stock pulley can get you to HP wise, but yeah. Your goals are totally reasonable and shouldn't have any issues.
If the tune is good, it will be great. I would install 1 step colder NGK iridiums (that might be the only thing not included). If you really want to be safe maybe some water meth injection (to help protect against bad batch of gas) added after tune or have it tuned without it.
You shouldn't have fuel surge issues. You shouldn't have starvation issues. You really shouldn't even be pushing your pump.
You can run Osiris. I prefer Haltech for VE tuning (red boxes are real cheap now a days), but other than that, the Vortech kit is all you really need. I'm not sure what the stock pulley can get you to HP wise, but yeah. Your goals are totally reasonable and shouldn't have any issues.
If the tune is good, it will be great. I would install 1 step colder NGK iridiums (that might be the only thing not included). If you really want to be safe maybe some water meth injection (to help protect against bad batch of gas) added after tune or have it tuned without it.
02-15-2016, 07:09 PM
#15
ok, why are the HR fuel return systems so much more expensive then the DE engines?
AAM DE - $475
AAM HR - $645
CJM Stage 0 (DE?) - $435
CJM S1 HR - $830
AAM DE - $475
AAM HR - $645
CJM Stage 0 (DE?) - $435
CJM S1 HR - $830
04-19-2016, 08:47 AM
#18
ok, so now the shop is saying 'it’s highly recommended getting the air/fuel ratio oxygen sensor and gauge. You are going to be forced induction now adding a lot of forced air into the engine and the fuel to compensate for that. '
Is there any truth to this or do they just want to $285 labor? My Z1 HFCs already have an empty upstream (above cat) bung, so nothing needs to be cut/welded.
Is there any truth to this or do they just want to $285 labor? My Z1 HFCs already have an empty upstream (above cat) bung, so nothing needs to be cut/welded.
04-19-2016, 11:45 AM
#20
Looking at the gauges, what numbers should I be concerned about?
Idle speed: 14.7 ish
WOT: 10-12?
Also, how many wideband af gauges should I get? Street standard says two, one for each cat. Ptuning said one, he's never heard of getting two wideband gauges before.
Idle speed: 14.7 ish
WOT: 10-12?
Also, how many wideband af gauges should I get? Street standard says two, one for each cat. Ptuning said one, he's never heard of getting two wideband gauges before.
Last edited by Rev_Night; 04-20-2016 at 07:46 AM.
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