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Hi all, thought I'd drop a line to say I've pulled the trigger on a HKS 8555 kit from CZP. Coz has given me a 3-4 month fulfilment time, so I've got a while yet before I can report back with anything.
Stock bottom end for now. I was VERY close to doing a rebuild first, having spoken to a few builders, but weighing up their limited availability to book me in over the next 6 months and the fact I'll get more enjoyment out of the SC sooner (than rebuilding and then waiting to save for the SC), I decided against it.
Car is an '03 Track (OG!) with 145,000kms on it. Last year I ticked off a tonne of maintenance and upgrades (lockdown project); some of the more noteworthy were:
-New CD00A trans
-Diff rebuilt with Quaife LSD and 3.9 final drive
-Steering rack rebuilt
-Z1 adjustable rear arm kit
-Whiteline poly bushes through the entire rear subframe and suspension and front knuckles (I'm pretty sure there are no rubber bushes left on the car) + BDE engine mounts
-SPL rose joint compression arm bushes (these made a huge difference in steer feel)
-DC Sports headers (yeah I know, they're a bit crap. Should've gone for Tomei)
-Z1 oil pan spacer
-Rear main seal (This became the catalyst for round 2 this year)
-Setrab power steering cooler and 25 row oil cooler (pretty much the last thing to do until I nicked the AC condensor drilling a hole to mount the cooler and had to replace that too...)
I got a few months of street driving and one track day before someone backed into it and didn't leave a note. Not serious but it needed repair. About 2 weeks after I got it back Melbourne was back in lockdown...
During that time a slow oil leak became apparent from the transmission drain hole (behind the motor) so I assumed it was the rear main. Again assuming it was my fault (because I had to fight that f**king seal to get it on), I took it to a shop where they checked it with a camera and said the rear main was fine.
It looked like it may have been the upper oil pain and we were already in lockdown sooooo, the car was back up on stands where sadly it's been since July.
What started with identifying and fixing oil leaks (I noted there were minor leaks in several spots around the motor) turned into replacing the timing kit, water pump, gallery gaskets and oil pump (Revup).
THEN I got to thinking about adding an HKS supercharger next year some time so I figured I'd begin preparing by adding supporting mods like DW fuel pump and RFS. Went with the DW 300+ and CJM S1-S.
The CJM kit kept on being delay so I figured why not change the cams now and save myself doing them later when the engine is rebuilt (lol).
I reached out to JWT who advised a C2/C8 setup for my (eventual) power goals. I know, in hindsight I should've left the stock cams until the engine gets rebuilt and can justify the increased air volume, or gone with something milder. My stock bottom end is not a good match for these cams. I know, I got a little carried away.
Anyway, I've got new viton seals (doing them with the motor in car is the devil) and JWT springs installed so it's not all bad. After swapping all the lifter buckets around, I wound up with only 1 out of spec too.
More delays on the CJM RFS, so Link G4X ECU, Haltech WB2 and IAT sensor purchased and ready to go...
Oh yeah, I ordered ID 1050x injectors with the SC. The intention is to tune for E85 once everything is playing nice. I didn't want to buy 2 sets of injectors so I'm hoping a good tune will make it behave.
Last word from CJM a few days ago, they're still waiting on their supplier for hoses. Approaching 6 months since my order and it's the only thing holding me up from putting everything back together. If I'd known it would take this long I would've left the RFS alone until closer to the SC.
Depending on how long it takes to get the SC, I was expecting to drive around on this setup as NA and work out any kinks, but given CJM's ordinary service that may not even happen.
So the <TL,DR> is if I get the CJM kit soon I'll be running an NA stock bottom end with C2/C8 cams and hope the Link, RFS and WB 02s can get the tune as good as possible...
Once the SC arrives, I'll switch to the ID 1050x injectors, get it running nicely and then introduce E85 to the mix.
Appreciate any comments, advice and obligatory hazing for my cam choices
Last edited by Timboj; 01-17-2022 at 02:26 PM.
Reason: Add images
Nice choices for the most part, did you drive on the Quaife, if so how did you like it? This is why I'm not in a rush, hell it took about 6-7 months just to get engine mounts lol. FWIW the lower boost setting doesn't need a RFS so if need be you can wait until rebuild time. I've thought about doing the lower setting TBH, but there's this thing in my head saying "just wait, it'll be worth it" I hardly drive the car anyway and the best way is to do the RFS as you are so it's simpler to get done. I'm still curious to see how those cams will work out. Keep us updated!
Quick update. Lifter bucket and RFS arrived yesterday (finally) BUT CJM forgot the dampers and heat sleeve... CZP is following up so I'm hoping they can express it to me.
The most important part to me was the lifter so I could at least start putting motor back together. I got as far as getting the rear timing case and chain guides back on before I had to call it a day.
In the meantime, I've also:
-Mounted Haltech WB2 controller (yet to swap out the old 02s) and run cable to the cabin
-Adding expansion cable to the Link ECU (for the WB2) - Drilled and added grommet
-Installed a DW300 pump and wired in a relay
-Run vacuum hose to the cabin for the MAP
In terms of running vacuum to the MAP and FPR, logically it makes sense that I could simply tee the line from the manifold and share it but there seems to be a faction of the internet that says this is a huge 'no no'. I did some searching on this forum and couldn't see anything obvious/conclusive so apologies if I've missed it. Any advice on this is welcome.
I thought the alternative might have been to delete the EVAP system and use the manifold nipple for either the MAP or FPR? I'm not worried about throwing codes (Link ECU) and in Australia our road authorities don't do OBD scans or emission testing, so it would be more about ensuring the tank can vent properly.
Last edited by Timboj; 01-17-2022 at 02:23 PM.
Reason: Add images
Only thing I can help you with is my opinion (not based on experience) I'm not a fan of running vacuum lines because anything can happen and that is a bad thing to go wrong. I have a MAP sensor threaded into my manifold (other reason I like the velocity) so I should be able to use that.
So engine is totally back together (excepting the EVAP- gotta connect solenoid to hardline) with Link up and running too.
For a near-20 year old car with 145k kms on it, I was pretty astounding by the condition of many of the parts and consumables. Most of the o-rings still had plenty of flex in them although they've all been replaced. In fact I've reused the fuel pump o-ring while a replacement is on back order. Original water pump was about the only thing looking a bit worn.
Found a handy, unused JST connector to hijack for power/ground for the WB2 controller. It's identical to the other one that is plugged into the fan unit. In fact, I swapped them over and the fan functionality was the same. I used a connector so it could all be unplugged.
Now the fun and games start with getting the tune right. I'm going to give it my best go to get a decent tune while it's still NA. Having fired up now, it's expectedly lumpy (with the C2/C8 cams) but won't hold a stable idle yet. Link are on the case (excellent cust support) and after spending an hour with me on Team Viewer yesterday, the tech has escalated my log and ECU map to another for review. I'm going to try a few things today while I'm waiting, but I think it's something to do with the TPS. All part of the fun.
We also noticed the MAF IAT reading seemed stupidly high (~40C) with an ambient of 25C and next to no heat from the bay. Is this because the MAF has to heat up to operate which heats the IAT? I was hoping to see that temp come down once the engine holds idle. Temporary problem anyway as I'll install an aftermarket IAT once I've got the SC.
Once the supercharger is on I'll hand it over to a tuner to get it right. Besides the obvious benefit of having a professional iron out the bugs, I won't have any mechanical limiters on this setup, so I need an expert with a dyno to use fuel/timing to ensure I don't push the stock bottom end to breaking point.
Last edited by Timboj; 01-17-2022 at 05:00 PM.
Reason: More info
Great job. I respect people who upgrade the car with their own hands. I myself am a recent mechanic from Arizona. Now retired, but my love for cars is even stronger. Now I'm tuning my 6.2 Silverado. I look for spare parts here nashvilleperformance.com/,since I live in the outback, everything comes to the post office
Quick update. Haven't had much time to focus on the car lately. Since my last post I've probably spent about an hour a week playing with the tune, with slow, but positive progress.
I don't have an ETA on the SC kit so I'm struggling to make a decision on whether to pay someone now ($1500AUD) to get a full tune done so I can drive/enjoy now OR just keep chipping away at the NA tune myself wait until I install the kit. I'm told if I do a full tune now and tune again with the SC it'll be $1500 + $800. I'm also really curious about how much power I can make with my current setup, but not sure that's worth another $800 to find out...
I did manage to spruce up the ARC catch can with a new PTFE tube and filter. Previously I'd vented back into the intake tube, but it's one less hose now. Along with deleting the coolant lines for oil filter cooler (and oil filter cooler) and throttle body, the engine bay is feeling a touch less cluttered.
Nice work!
Most folks l know choose not to tune twice due to cost, but hey if you've got the $$$ go for it, YOLO. With the bolt ons, cams and a good tune you can (probably) expect 3teens NA. GL!
Nice work on cleaning up the wiring, I gotta do that soon.
ARC catch can dope, i still got mine laying around, i need to try to sell it lol.
As far as tuning, it really depends on how much you drive or care about driving.
If the supercharger is on backorder I'd probably tune but I've had not so great luck with backordered stuff.
My Nismo FUCA were purchased in Sept. and they just now called me in Feb saying it may be discontinued and they have no ETA so I had to cancel.
Yeah, the current supply chain issues are my main motivator to just go and get it tuned now. 3 months after ordering, there's still no ETA sooooo. I know with my luck though I'll get the notice shortly after the tune
@DarkZ03 Boo on the FUCAs. I've got an old set of Cuscos but for the price of the ball joint replacement, I think I'm just going to pick up a set of Z1's next time.
I picked up the ARC pretty cheap 2nd hand a few years back. The way the 2nd hand market for Japanese cars are going they'll probably be worth silly money one day.
Right, I was tempted to call SPL and say "You guys make them so can you just make me a set?"
so I guess now my 2 contenders are the SPC 73000 kit or SPL, I know SPL is the best but I feel like the SPC will be more street friendly.
Are the HKS kits made in Japan? If they are I'd say expect about 6 months or so.
Those SPL arms are gorgeous. What does a replacement ball joint set you back? I couldn't find a price.
I've got their rose joint bushings in my compression arms. Steering/handling notably tightened up. Fixed a left drift that I'd previously solved with offset bushings.
Only issue was that when I replaced the arms, knowing that I was going to ditch the rubber bushing anyway, I bought the cheaper SPD arms. The problem was when going to press the SPL bushings they weren't as tight as you'd want. The ID of the SPD arms obviously aren't dead on with OEM tolerances...
The fix was to use to a couple of split spring pins per arm to ensure it would never move:
When the bushings go, I'll buy OEM again OR an aftermarket with a rose joint already installed.
Nice I have both those bushings (not currently installed) and those arms (installed) was thinking about buying OEM arms...I guess I'll add that to the list lol.
As far as the SPL I haven't pulled the trigger cause I can't find the info on rebuilds if needed, i think i might just call them directly and ask.
The SPC cost $735 and the ball joints are about $250 each, at that price might as well buy a new set of arms!
Link have been invaluable for a first timer like me to tune the car myself. I've probably got about 10 hours of road tuning done now and the drive is now pretty compliant overall. My lambda output in relation to my fuel table cells is looking roughly how it should (richer under load/acceleration and no longer leaning out) and now my idle is almost spot on.
Every improvement I make takes a chip out of the value of getting a tune before the SC. I'm really curious to see what parameters would change between my tune and the professional, but that alone wouldn't justify my spend. My main incentive is that I wouldn't feel comfortable tracking it without a proper tune, so I think that's my answer. It could be 6 months before I get the SC and I'd like to thrash it safely, with full power in the meantime...
I've gotta say, those cams aren't anywhere near as noticeable at idle than I thought they would (in terms of chop/noise). The Motordyne exhaust was already fairly obnoxious (I love it, but I don't know how anyone could live with the muffler delete) with the stock cams so I reckon you'd have to hear the before and after recordings to tell the difference.
I'll make a couple of recordings (cold start/operating temp) and post after the tune.
Finished a job I've been avoiding since I wired in the WB2- add some spare wires and put the harness firewall grommet/bracket back together and install.
I wasted a frustrating hour trying to incorrectly install the plastic bracket into the grommet. When I finally realised it needed to be installed in the inner most cavity (there are several layers) it was actually pretty easy.
I sheathed a power, ground and 2 input wires into braided sleeve and fed that through the firewall grommet. Now I've got my vacuum line, fuel pump power, WB2, and spare wires running through the factory location. I'd made a hole years ago for my amp wiring, but didn't want to keep slicing up the grommet.
Next step will be to liberally inject some black silicone to waterproof the grommet again.
Tune on Monday, so I'll update with the results after...
My expectations weren't high, but the dyno session was still a little disappointing. I will say my butt-dyno is telling me the mid-range is angrier but who knows?
So, the street tune was good for 204kw (274hp), but he was getting some knock at peak. Because I said I'd be doing track days he didn't feel comfortable leaving it there, so dialed back the timing a touch and we landed on 194kw (260hp).
He did his best to console me with the baseline of his own Revup when it was dead stock. At least it's a same dyno comparison, though not necessarily same condition.
He had two main observations from the session:
Air temps were rapidly increasing and hard to stabilise between runs. I had a full CAI (Injen) but after installing the oil cooler there was no room for it, so shortened it to the in-bay pod. Insisted I go back to the stock airbox as that's worked for his own development car.
Tune for E85
Possibly a scavenging issue...
In terms of the relevant mods, I have:
Injen CAI (shortened to in-bay pod)
Motordyne 5/16 spacer
JWT C2/C8 cams (these are ultimately for the SC build, premature for NA)
DC Sports headers
Kinetix HFC
Motordyne Shockwave TDX2
Given I still have no ETA on the SC, I'm going to swap back to a stock airbox (maybe modify to run the pod internally) so that addresses air temps in the mean time.
E85 is abundant in my neck of the woods and I don't 'daily' my car, so I'll go for it on the SC tune.
I know the Motordyne isn't a choke point (especially for my hp), I assume the Kinetix are fine and have headroom. The DC Sports seem to polarise though. Could they really be bad enough to be choking/causing pulsation issues?
All of this is temporary, as the SC will change (not necessarily fix) everything to some degree BUT I do want to understand the issues/weak points, especially if they're going to carry over.
Before anyone jumps on the tuner, he's a well-respected RB/VQ builder/tuner and has his own Revup making 260kw (350hp) - Stock bottom end, C8/RZ2, 82mm TB, ported/polished lower plenum/intake and heads, Sasha Anis plenum mods (gutted and neck mod) + 2x plenum spacers (~1 inch), stock air box...
When you said stock air box he had my respect, but lost a little with the polished intake. Nothing in the intake tract should be polished, it hurts atomization. You know my opinion on the DCs, but I doubt they are hurting that bad. It may be just too much exhaust cam for its current configuration but I might be wrong.
12-11-2021, 06:01 PM
HKS supercharger build
