Why didnt you pick that? sc v. tt
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From: In a Village!
Why didnt you pick that? sc v. tt
i really wish the site search worked. after doing some price hunting it seems superchargers are significantly less expensive then the TT counterpart. Greddys kit is roughly 6k and a lot of extra options are needed.
Vortech can be had for under 5k and do have of options needed to purchase.
With that said why exactly are people picking TT set ups? It seems the SC option also matches the Z's power on demand NA history
Please tell me why you chose TT?
Vortech can be had for under 5k and do have of options needed to purchase.
With that said why exactly are people picking TT set ups? It seems the SC option also matches the Z's power on demand NA history
Please tell me why you chose TT?
405 rwhp and 380rwtq. Thats why I went turbo. the superchargers have no problem meeting the hp numbers but there torque numbers are pretty low. Its all about what you want and how much your willing to spend!!
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From: Naperville, IL
this is a (somewhat) outside perspective, coming from an Ultimate Z sales representative and an owner of an 11 second (10's on slicks with nitrous) 300ZX Twin Turbo with over 600hp.
For simplicity, the supercharger is a much better option. Practically bolt on, really.
We (Ultimate Z) prefer the ATI ProCharger kit over all, and use a computer program from Technosquare rather than the fuel management system that the kit comes with. This has eliminated detonation entirely (which has, in the past, been an issue with the ATI ProCharger). The reason they detonate for others is because when they setup the fuel system, it's set up for one set atmosphere condition (however the weather is outside when you tune it). If the owners altered the fuel flow in relation to the weather (temperature especially), or even set up the system to run a little richer, detonation wouldn't be an issue. With the ECU controlling the fuel delivery, we've had incredible success with the ProChargers (incredible success = no failures).
Stillen's doesn't make enough power and requires modification to the hood.
Vortec... we just don't have the experience with them right now. Seems to me (based on the Sport Z article) that it's comparable to the ATI kit in terms of installation and power, but the ATI kit still makes a little more. Both kits will detonate if improperly tuned, though, but so will any form of forced induction.
As for the GReddy Twin Turbo kit.... I, personally, don't like it. I'm a turbo man, I flat out love turbos, but this was a poorly designed kit (most likely due to GReddy rushing to get theirs out first to corner the market). Remove the front bumper support, making your expensive FMIC, not to mention all the fiberglass and plastic in the front of the engine bay, susceptible to a simple fender bender. Add on to that relocating the airbag sensor... not a good idea. GReddy's answer when we inquired about this: "it's not meant for street use." For those reasons alone, I'd never put the GReddy kit on a 350Z.
We haven't installed the PE turbo kit yet, but I don't think removing the bumper support or altering the airbag sensor are required for this kit, which makes it a much better option if going the way of the turbo.
On aftermarket installations of these types, most people don't do the proper things involved in making a car ready for forced induction (i.e. dropping compression ratios). When you've got 10.3:1 compression and you're forcing more air into the engine, it gets super hot and detonates (forced induction 101). So for this reason, on stock internals, you don't want to boost much. This is why all these kits are set for 6-8 psi max. Turbos make this real simple (too simple in the case of the 350Z).... put some boost jets in your wastegate lines, pump up the boost to 15 lbs, and there goes your engine. Because we all want to see what difference one more pound will do on the 350Z, many people blow their engines to **** because they don't know how much boost is too much boost. Superchargers make it harder to blow the engine.... you want to turn up the boost, you have to swap out the pulley and belt.
For the person who doesn't know about tuning cars, this is another reason the supercharger kits are more favorable in my opinion (if it's hard to turn up the boost, you're less likely to do it. Turning up the boost on a turbo is too easy and that makes it too easy to blow the engine).
On the hardcore side.... do the internals and what do we see.... turbo kits make a shitload more power, and they'll do it safely with compression in the 8.5:1 area. They're also more efficient and won't drag down your horsepower at all. You say lag... I say 3.5 liters.
So my cliff notes: if you're not going to build up the internals, do a supercharger (ATI or Vortec, but make sure to do a good job tuning it). If you do the internals, strap on some turbos (preferrably PE) and have some fun, because there's no sensation like when the turbo start spooling and slam you back into the seat with 20+ psi of boost.
I know, that was a long, drawn out post, but I think I covered all the kits pretty well.
For simplicity, the supercharger is a much better option. Practically bolt on, really.
We (Ultimate Z) prefer the ATI ProCharger kit over all, and use a computer program from Technosquare rather than the fuel management system that the kit comes with. This has eliminated detonation entirely (which has, in the past, been an issue with the ATI ProCharger). The reason they detonate for others is because when they setup the fuel system, it's set up for one set atmosphere condition (however the weather is outside when you tune it). If the owners altered the fuel flow in relation to the weather (temperature especially), or even set up the system to run a little richer, detonation wouldn't be an issue. With the ECU controlling the fuel delivery, we've had incredible success with the ProChargers (incredible success = no failures).
Stillen's doesn't make enough power and requires modification to the hood.
Vortec... we just don't have the experience with them right now. Seems to me (based on the Sport Z article) that it's comparable to the ATI kit in terms of installation and power, but the ATI kit still makes a little more. Both kits will detonate if improperly tuned, though, but so will any form of forced induction.
As for the GReddy Twin Turbo kit.... I, personally, don't like it. I'm a turbo man, I flat out love turbos, but this was a poorly designed kit (most likely due to GReddy rushing to get theirs out first to corner the market). Remove the front bumper support, making your expensive FMIC, not to mention all the fiberglass and plastic in the front of the engine bay, susceptible to a simple fender bender. Add on to that relocating the airbag sensor... not a good idea. GReddy's answer when we inquired about this: "it's not meant for street use." For those reasons alone, I'd never put the GReddy kit on a 350Z.
We haven't installed the PE turbo kit yet, but I don't think removing the bumper support or altering the airbag sensor are required for this kit, which makes it a much better option if going the way of the turbo.
On aftermarket installations of these types, most people don't do the proper things involved in making a car ready for forced induction (i.e. dropping compression ratios). When you've got 10.3:1 compression and you're forcing more air into the engine, it gets super hot and detonates (forced induction 101). So for this reason, on stock internals, you don't want to boost much. This is why all these kits are set for 6-8 psi max. Turbos make this real simple (too simple in the case of the 350Z).... put some boost jets in your wastegate lines, pump up the boost to 15 lbs, and there goes your engine. Because we all want to see what difference one more pound will do on the 350Z, many people blow their engines to **** because they don't know how much boost is too much boost. Superchargers make it harder to blow the engine.... you want to turn up the boost, you have to swap out the pulley and belt.
For the person who doesn't know about tuning cars, this is another reason the supercharger kits are more favorable in my opinion (if it's hard to turn up the boost, you're less likely to do it. Turning up the boost on a turbo is too easy and that makes it too easy to blow the engine).
On the hardcore side.... do the internals and what do we see.... turbo kits make a shitload more power, and they'll do it safely with compression in the 8.5:1 area. They're also more efficient and won't drag down your horsepower at all. You say lag... I say 3.5 liters.
So my cliff notes: if you're not going to build up the internals, do a supercharger (ATI or Vortec, but make sure to do a good job tuning it). If you do the internals, strap on some turbos (preferrably PE) and have some fun, because there's no sensation like when the turbo start spooling and slam you back into the seat with 20+ psi of boost.
I know, that was a long, drawn out post, but I think I covered all the kits pretty well.
Last edited by ZLover4Life; Mar 29, 2004 at 11:07 PM.
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From: Sac
Originally posted by spazpilot
405 rwhp and 380rwtq. Thats why I went turbo. the superchargers have no problem meeting the hp numbers but there torque numbers are pretty low. Its all about what you want and how much your willing to spend!!
405 rwhp and 380rwtq. Thats why I went turbo. the superchargers have no problem meeting the hp numbers but there torque numbers are pretty low. Its all about what you want and how much your willing to spend!!
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From: In a Village!
Awesome write up. I think supercharger provides a great way of adding some serious FI to your Z. I'm looking for good gains but don't feel like this will be my last car. Supercharger is practical with some upgrade capabilities. Turbos are awesome for long term performance but IMHO we don't even know if the drivetrain can handle 500 hp! 400 hp is good enough for me 
Again.. Thanks for you input - you took a lot of time but it was well, well worth it.
Again.. Thanks for you input - you took a lot of time but it was well, well worth it.
Originally posted by ZLover4Life
this is a (somewhat) outside perspective, coming from an Ultimate Z sales representative and an owner of an 11 second (10's on slicks with nitrous) 300ZX Twin Turbo with over 600hp.
For simplicity, the supercharger is a much better option. Practically bolt on, really.
We (Ultimate Z) prefer the ATI ProCharger kit over all, and use a computer program from Technosquare rather than the fuel management system that the kit comes with. This has eliminated detonation entirely (which has, in the past, been an issue with the ATI ProCharger). The reason they detonate for others is because when they setup the fuel system, it's set up for one set atmosphere condition (however the weather is outside when you tune it). If the owners altered the fuel flow in relation to the weather (temperature especially), or even set up the system to run a little richer, detonation wouldn't be an issue. With the ECU controlling the fuel delivery, we've had incredible success with the ProChargers (incredible success = no failures).
Stillen's doesn't make enough power and requires modification to the hood.
Vortec... we just don't have the experience with them right now. Seems to me (based on the Sport Z article) that it's comparable to the ATI kit in terms of installation and power, but the ATI kit still makes a little more. Both kits will detonate if improperly tuned, though, but so will any form of forced induction.
As for the GReddy Twin Turbo kit.... I, personally, don't like it. I'm a turbo man, I flat out love turbos, but this was a poorly designed kit (most likely due to GReddy rushing to get theirs out first to corner the market). Remove the front bumper support, making your expensive FMIC, not to mention all the fiberglass and plastic in the front of the engine bay, susceptible to a simple fender bender. Add on to that relocating the airbag sensor... not a good idea. GReddy's answer when we inquired about this: "it's not meant for street use." For those reasons alone, I'd never put the GReddy kit on a 350Z.
We haven't installed the PE turbo kit yet, but I don't think removing the bumper support or altering the airbag sensor are required for this kit, which makes it a much better option if going the way of the turbo.
On aftermarket installations of these types, most people don't do the proper things involved in making a car ready for forced induction (i.e. dropping compression ratios). When you've got 10.3:1 compression and you're forcing more air into the engine, it gets super hot and detonates (forced induction 101). So for this reason, on stock internals, you don't want to boost much. This is why all these kits are set for 6-8 psi max. Turbos make this real simple (too simple in the case of the 350Z).... put some boost jets in your wastegate lines, pump up the boost to 15 lbs, and there goes your engine. Because we all want to see what difference one more pound will do on the 350Z, many people blow their engines to **** because they don't know how much boost is too much boost. Superchargers make it harder to blow the engine.... you want to turn up the boost, you have to swap out the pulley and belt.
For the person who doesn't know about tuning cars, this is another reason the supercharger kits are more favorable in my opinion (if it's hard to turn up the boost, you're less likely to do it. Turning up the boost on a turbo is too easy and that makes it too easy to blow the engine).
On the hardcore side.... do the internals and what do we see.... turbo kits make a shitload more power, and they'll do it safely with compression in the 8.5:1 area. They're also more efficient and won't drag down your horsepower at all. You say lag... I say 3.5 liters.
So my cliff notes: if you're not going to build up the internals, do a supercharger (ATI or Vortec, but make sure to do a good job tuning it). If you do the internals, strap on some turbos (preferrably PE) and have some fun, because there's no sensation like when the turbo start spooling and slam you back into the seat with 20+ psi of boost.
I know, that was a long, drawn out post, but I think I covered all the kits pretty well.
this is a (somewhat) outside perspective, coming from an Ultimate Z sales representative and an owner of an 11 second (10's on slicks with nitrous) 300ZX Twin Turbo with over 600hp.
For simplicity, the supercharger is a much better option. Practically bolt on, really.
We (Ultimate Z) prefer the ATI ProCharger kit over all, and use a computer program from Technosquare rather than the fuel management system that the kit comes with. This has eliminated detonation entirely (which has, in the past, been an issue with the ATI ProCharger). The reason they detonate for others is because when they setup the fuel system, it's set up for one set atmosphere condition (however the weather is outside when you tune it). If the owners altered the fuel flow in relation to the weather (temperature especially), or even set up the system to run a little richer, detonation wouldn't be an issue. With the ECU controlling the fuel delivery, we've had incredible success with the ProChargers (incredible success = no failures).
Stillen's doesn't make enough power and requires modification to the hood.
Vortec... we just don't have the experience with them right now. Seems to me (based on the Sport Z article) that it's comparable to the ATI kit in terms of installation and power, but the ATI kit still makes a little more. Both kits will detonate if improperly tuned, though, but so will any form of forced induction.
As for the GReddy Twin Turbo kit.... I, personally, don't like it. I'm a turbo man, I flat out love turbos, but this was a poorly designed kit (most likely due to GReddy rushing to get theirs out first to corner the market). Remove the front bumper support, making your expensive FMIC, not to mention all the fiberglass and plastic in the front of the engine bay, susceptible to a simple fender bender. Add on to that relocating the airbag sensor... not a good idea. GReddy's answer when we inquired about this: "it's not meant for street use." For those reasons alone, I'd never put the GReddy kit on a 350Z.
We haven't installed the PE turbo kit yet, but I don't think removing the bumper support or altering the airbag sensor are required for this kit, which makes it a much better option if going the way of the turbo.
On aftermarket installations of these types, most people don't do the proper things involved in making a car ready for forced induction (i.e. dropping compression ratios). When you've got 10.3:1 compression and you're forcing more air into the engine, it gets super hot and detonates (forced induction 101). So for this reason, on stock internals, you don't want to boost much. This is why all these kits are set for 6-8 psi max. Turbos make this real simple (too simple in the case of the 350Z).... put some boost jets in your wastegate lines, pump up the boost to 15 lbs, and there goes your engine. Because we all want to see what difference one more pound will do on the 350Z, many people blow their engines to **** because they don't know how much boost is too much boost. Superchargers make it harder to blow the engine.... you want to turn up the boost, you have to swap out the pulley and belt.
For the person who doesn't know about tuning cars, this is another reason the supercharger kits are more favorable in my opinion (if it's hard to turn up the boost, you're less likely to do it. Turning up the boost on a turbo is too easy and that makes it too easy to blow the engine).
On the hardcore side.... do the internals and what do we see.... turbo kits make a shitload more power, and they'll do it safely with compression in the 8.5:1 area. They're also more efficient and won't drag down your horsepower at all. You say lag... I say 3.5 liters.
So my cliff notes: if you're not going to build up the internals, do a supercharger (ATI or Vortec, but make sure to do a good job tuning it). If you do the internals, strap on some turbos (preferrably PE) and have some fun, because there's no sensation like when the turbo start spooling and slam you back into the seat with 20+ psi of boost.
I know, that was a long, drawn out post, but I think I covered all the kits pretty well.
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From: Silverdale, WA
All of the above reasons are good but, The centrifugal superchargers are plain not fun to drive. if you look at the TQ curves and boost levels you will see that they don't really make significant boost to almost 4k. We shift at 6.6k. so you have a mere 2.6k power band. The 3.5 liters covers some of it up but drive a Centrifugal SC car then drive a Turbo car back to back at the same boost level and you will always want the turbo car. If I'm going to spend 5k and be disappointed, I would spend the extra cash for the turbo or nothing at all.
As far as increasing boost. We are all over 18 here if you decide to turn up the boost without proper steps yes you'll blow the motor. I'm not your parent and the maker of the kits sells it to you at level saying this is safe, once you leave that no one but you are responsible. So you better know what your doing or you'll pay.
Gary
As far as increasing boost. We are all over 18 here if you decide to turn up the boost without proper steps yes you'll blow the motor. I'm not your parent and the maker of the kits sells it to you at level saying this is safe, once you leave that no one but you are responsible. So you better know what your doing or you'll pay.
Gary
Last edited by 7 eleven; Mar 30, 2004 at 07:21 AM.
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From: Silverdale, WA
Originally posted by slay2k
Word 7-11... you sure you ain't biased cause you own a Greddy though ?
Word 7-11... you sure you ain't biased cause you own a Greddy though ?
No not really, I chose turbos because I like the way a good turbo setup feels. I owned 2 RX7 TT's with heavy mods and turboed Hondas a long time ago. I've driven centrifugal sc V8's before then a turbo version of the same car (LT-1 Vette's) Good lord, what a difference!
The centrifugal works good in the qtr mile but on the street it's just a shame. It is easy and cheaper but that's not why I dumped thousands of dollars in to my car. Now a roots or twin screw setup that's a different story. They deliver a great compromise for a street car. But the stillen is a joke (cut the hood?) and Dreamworks isn't out yet.
But every one should get what ever fits their ideas of how it should be. These are just my opinions.
Gary
Last edited by 7 eleven; Mar 30, 2004 at 08:36 AM.
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From: Coeur d'Alene, ID
Hey Gary, I see you got your turbo installed. How do you like it? Wish you could have had it done for the meet, I would have loved to take a ride with you. Congrats on the install. And I still want your wheels. :P
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From: Alexandria, Louisiana
Keep Info Coming!
Guys - I'm trying to decide on which F/I setup I'll go with as well. I'm leaning toward a S/C due to the powerband. Look at the SportZ magazine dyno sheets for reference. I like the flat torque curve down in the low to mid range rpms. Yes, I know it runs out of breath above 6k but I don't like to the buzz the motor ( although I know it's a free breather ). Personally I'm waiting for the Stillen Stage 4 & am planning on a nitrous install while I wait. I am experienced in basic installs so the ease of installation of the Stillen kit is appealing. Not crazy about the hood but I'm looking for an excuse to get a CF hood anyway!
I don't expect to make the power Michael's ( SkiDazzle ) putting out 
but I think I'll be happy with the S/C. It also fits in with the exhaust mods I've already made ( full Borla setup from headers to true duals ). Not really excited about changing out the exhaust again!Just need to touch base with Stillen about compatability with the Crawford plenum & 256 NISMO cams. Anybody out there have some info on that? 
TIA.
I don't expect to make the power Michael's ( SkiDazzle ) putting out but I think I'll be happy with the S/C. It also fits in with the exhaust mods I've already made ( full Borla setup from headers to true duals ). Not really excited about changing out the exhaust again!Just need to touch base with Stillen about compatability with the Crawford plenum & 256 NISMO cams. Anybody out there have some info on that? TIA.
Last edited by Mean Gene; Mar 30, 2004 at 02:41 PM.
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From: Vortechville,CA
Originally posted by 3rdpower
It appears the Vortech S/C is different from the Stillen SC... are we talking about the same type of S/Cs?
It appears the Vortech S/C is different from the Stillen SC... are we talking about the same type of S/Cs?
Stillen = Roots (Better)
Originally posted by ZLover4Life
As for the GReddy Twin Turbo kit.... I, personally, don't like it. I'm a turbo man, I flat out love turbos, but this was a poorly designed kit (most likely due to GReddy rushing to get theirs out first to corner the market). Remove the front bumper support, making your expensive FMIC, not to mention all the fiberglass and plastic in the front of the engine bay, susceptible to a simple fender bender. Add on to that relocating the airbag sensor... not a good idea. GReddy's answer when we inquired about this: "it's not meant for street use." For those reasons alone, I'd never put the GReddy kit on a 350Z.
As for the GReddy Twin Turbo kit.... I, personally, don't like it. I'm a turbo man, I flat out love turbos, but this was a poorly designed kit (most likely due to GReddy rushing to get theirs out first to corner the market). Remove the front bumper support, making your expensive FMIC, not to mention all the fiberglass and plastic in the front of the engine bay, susceptible to a simple fender bender. Add on to that relocating the airbag sensor... not a good idea. GReddy's answer when we inquired about this: "it's not meant for street use." For those reasons alone, I'd never put the GReddy kit on a 350Z.
However, coupe of clarifications.
First, the airbag sensor is relocated, but it will still function properly. It is located right below the hood latch, and rests against the intercooler. The PE kit mounts the sensor the same way...don't try to scare people.
If you ram into someone...the front end is toast anyways, and the airbag will go off. I agree it's not ideal to have to remove the brace, but the GREDDY kit went with e 5/14 inch R Spec intercooler. It is HUGE! The other kits use smaller intercoolers, hence, no removal of the brace is necessary.Second, I don't agree with your statement that Greddy rushed the kit to market. They spent over a year designing this kit, and tested it extensive on their shop 350Z in Irvine. The kit is excellent quality. I particularly like the cast manifolds vs. tubular steel. From my experience, the tubular steel manifolds always crack, due to the intense heat, and stress of the turbos...even if perfectly TIG welded. Greddy even includes a new oil pan with oil fittings, so you don't have to tap and reweld your stock oilpan.
Look, no kit is perfect, and all of them leave out some desirable parts, such as guages, BOV's, and boost controllers. But these pieces are certainly not manditory, and the kit is ready to go right out the box.
Lots of good points.
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