Anyone have links here or elsewhere of direct comparisson/competition between supercharged and turbo 350's?

Is Zero to Sixty Better/Worse?

Top speed obtained sooner/later?

Zero-Thrity MPH, Thirty-Sixty MPH, 60-100MPH, etc..etc.. ?

I'm hoping to start with NOT changing internals.... I'll be more than happy to do this later, and bump up the PSI, however for now stock+mods+supercharger/turbo is all I'll need.

I'm getting closer to finally pulling the trigger on one of these.

thanks,

joe

 

moved

 

There are a lot of threads here about this subject already however if you plan on doing internal mods like forged rods and pistons then you want turbo only. A supercharger would just be a waste of money on forged internals as a turbo kit can push 25-40 psi depending on what turbos you are running!

 

I know there are threads about this, but each one tends to be more about opinion/preference/theory vs. real world application.

I'd love to browse 10K messages, and piece together the 25/50 which may contain the information that I want, I unfortunately do not have the time for that.

That is why I requested, if anyone had links to threads here or elsewhere that specifically include what I am interested in.

Yes, I know... I know... a "magic bullet" or "instant research" does not exist.

I can still ask for them, right?

I plan on getting another Z, most likely salvaged, rebuiled it, complete custom engine/drivetrain/suspension, for what would essentially be a track only car, although still "street legal".

So I don't want to make my daily driver a 10/15K motor with 25/40PSI turbos. If it were primarly a track car, I'd love turbos, and that's where I see that SuperChargers make more sense in the Southern California/San Fernando Valley/Los Angeles area.

I'm not an import nut, I want it to make sense.

For the most part, it seems that superchargers give you more, more often than turbos.

Turbos do great at higher RPM for longer periods of time over a supercharger any day. How often do you/we get to do that?

I either run out of space, into traffic, or "authority" avoidance much sooner than I want to, once I am breaking 50/60 on surface streets and 90/100 on highways.

For me, every on ramp is a 100MPH opportunity. Check space, traffic, and authorities for clearance, and punch it.

Is a turbo going to do MORE than a SuperCharger in this scenario?

In track conditions, and all things being equal, aside from Turbo & SC and with a variety of curves & straightaways would a turbo necessarily beat a SC simply because it was Turbo?

Turbo or Otherwise, one car can always be built/modified better than another. I'm trying to get down to the reality of the technology vs the concept.

SC is supposed to be bad because of it being belt driven, why is that again? You give up 5/10HP to gain 100/115 ?

I think the next argument is "There are more things to go wrong with SC?" I don't know how many moving parts/failure points there are in a SC vs Turbo, but they seem to have similar faults, inlcuding additional engine wear&tear, and as turbos do HIT harder, it seems this would be more of a negative for Turbo.

Turbo is supposed to be good because you are working with free/wasted energy to create more energy. I'm not looking to win an award for Efficiency, I want bang for buck performance and reliability in "my driving conditions/environment".

Does that make more sense/help?

 

Mate go the TT path for sure. The big advantage with the TT over the centrifugal S/C is that peak turbo pressure on the turbo car will be achieved by aprox 3000 RPM whereas the S/C will only have approx 2 to 3 psi, at the identical RPM. The turbo car will drive all over a Centrifugal type S/C in all road and track conditions.

Peter

APS

 

Allrighty then the best price difference between any of the intercooled blowers (vortec, ati, stillen) and the greddy twin turbo kit is roughly 1000 bucks.

blowers 5500 greddy 6500 keep in mind actually the stillen requires a new hod costing 500-600 bucks.

ok if you have looked at dynos you will see the blowers main downfall is lower end tourque as the boost does not reach into the 7-8 lb range till the motor is near redline...6500+

the dynos on the greddy kit produce huge tourque beginning around 2500 all the way to 6500.

I saw one supercharger dyno with 430sh peek hp with 270ish peak tourque after tuning.

Now keep in mind you should be thinking a heavy duty clutch and wider wheels and tires with any of theese kits however of course it is not requried.

both systems can be tuned for alot more power than they come from the factory. you should do a member search for Gq_model_626 for greddy info and FluidZ for vortec info

personally i dont like the ati supercharger or the stillen so i havent paid that much attention to them.

what im seeing on the turbo side is alot more tuning options both now and in the future depending on what you want to do for example the greddy kit will easily supply 25 psi to the motor if you want it to.

Alot of vortec people on this forum have gotten big power gains from tuning and from reading this forum and doing tons of research it seems like the best blower for the 350z

now what people are doing with the greddy kit in out of control!! ive seen plenty of dynos with 400+ hp and 350 + tourque running 8-9psi and the only limit to this system is internal engine strength i havent seen anyone with the stones to run this kit over 10psi on the stock motor as well as it seems even at 9 psi there are tuning problems due to the stock maf and the fuel system.

when you factor in total overall cost including several dyno tuning sessions the vortec will be less expensive as if you want to mess with the greddy setup you should run the e manage which is another 500 bucks plus the turbos just simply require more tuning than the superchargers from what ive seen.

if you leave both systems bone stock at their pre set tuning you are once again dealing with roughly 1000 dollar cost difference but with the greddy giving you like 80 ft lbs of tourque more i think a stock greddy car vs the stock vortec car would lay the smack down as from a dead stop or from a roll you are alwasy going to be at peak boost and have more torque sooner.

For a thousand bucks difference i would gladly spend that for the turbo kit as the kit is only limited by how much you want to spend after its installed. as far as i know with the vortec kit all you can get it 9-10 psi and it will always suffer with less torque than a turbo and will only ever reach peak power and boost near redline. -whew- also im just biased twords turbo cars ive owned 6! my buddy super charged his 2002 gt mustang and i was just unimpressed it really only felt more powerfull after 4000 rpm up untill then it felt the same as a stock gt. personally i love it when you hit 2500 rpm's ant the turbos spool up and launch you like a rocket all the way to red line and every time you shift you are always under full boost with a blower every time you shift you have to wait again till near redline till its making peak boost / power.

I say TT!!! sorry for the long post but i had to beat your long post ha!

 

I know you dont like the stillen, but it makes 90% of its maximum torque as low at 2000 rpms, which would be perfect for your low-end desires. I love mine, and no extra tuning required.

 

I guess i should have clarified as to why i dont like the stillen.

First of all your car has a supercharger and mine doesent so i like your car 10 times more than mine that being said if you go with the stage 2 intercooled supercharger it costs 5800 bucks more or less then you have to either modify your hood or buy a stillen hood 400-700 bucks.

At this kind of cost you can have the greddy twin turbo kit and have more tourque and more hp everywhere in the powerband.

This is of course just my oppinion but i would be curious as to if you were thinking of TT and if so what made you decide to go with the stillen SC???

maybe would be good info for Alpine as well as it sounds like he could go wither way with his car.

 

Thanks for the posts people!

Money is always a factor, however at this point, 1k/2k more/less for either application wouldn't be my deciding factor.

I want what works in my scenarios, period. If it's TT so be it, and I am going to respond to the rest of your post.

 

I have seen turbo dynos reflect what you are saying on the turbo side, however I have not seen that on the SC side, I believe that is a tuning issue. It's always a tuning issue, isn't it?

From my understanding, the SC lag is considerably less than TT so I am not sure if I am "wrong" or if what you were looking at just wasn't tuned right.

That seems like a lot for SC without internal upgrades.

I already have the Nismo clutch and JWT flywheel, that sould be enough until I add silly PSI, right? I am looking into another set of play/track wheels/tires. I have the track edition Z so I have a little more tire already.

I will check in with them right now.

I was never interested in ATI either. I was looking into Vortec and Stillen.

I think I mentioned this, until i do more research, I'm thinking I would want SC for a daily driver and TT for play & track.'

I am well aware you can get much more from a turbo than SC.

 

Other than pipe dreams, I really wasn't thinking of either. Then at a Z club meeting, I met M3Powerrr, who wanted to sell his newly installed stillen and put a greddy in, so I got the stage 2 kit and the hood scoop for 4000, and couldn't pass the deal up. However, as for the different superchargers, the stillen has always been my favorite, due to its design, reliability, quietness and ease of installation. The hood is the only drawback, pictures don't do it justice. When I saw it in person, it looked 10x better than pictures.

 

agreed, but I have seen similar (slightly less) numbers from SC as well. I believe SC are running 7-8 psi though.


It is my understanding that you MUST have e-manage, so that's not even an option, and again 1-2K diference when all is said and done, isn't going to be the deciding factor.

I was also counting on either the technosquare or JWT computer reprograming in conjunction with tunning in both cases.



If I am wrong as to when SC boosting starts, then you would be absolutely correct about going TT. I just don't think that SC lag is as much as you are suggesting. If that is the case, then the case is shut and it's TT.

I also noticed as I read over the thread, someone else also mentioned the lag is that great either.

needing to confirm this....

I came back before closing this poast and through this part in here, so it's somewhat out of sequence, about your dislike and info on Stillen.

I am looking at the newest Stillen SC. From what I understand it will not require a hood mod, and delivers about 100HP and 100 lbs foot torque to the wheels and the boost is available immediately, not after 2500.

Not bad for the money, and for my daily driving secnario more usable than TT.

You could also throw on their 3year/36,000 warranty on your entire engine with it. So that why, you tune it right, you pound the hell out of it, and if something goes wrong, let them deal with it. Try that after installing TT.


This is my problem, everyone that turns me to turbo is more or less in the same boat as you. They had it before, they liked it before, they want it again.

I don't have a problem with this, "more power to ya"! I just think that times have changed and SCs, on the Z, are more capable than we would normally expect.

If you don't change shampoos, your hair won't smell as nice as it did when you first started using that shampoo you've been using for months/years too. (that'll throw ya)

With a mustang, I'd expect what you are saying here. I know that their engines just aren't up for the job without more work. However camaros are more than capable and do very well with SC stage2/stage3.

If you're right about lag and delivery, I'd agree with you 1000%.

On the contrary thanks for the long post. You could have just pointed out some of those threads and I would have taken it from there so you wouldn't have to type as much. I type fast, so it doesn't matter to me.

Althought I just beat your post.

This puts me on a fact finding mission Vs. browing through thousands of messages.

thanks again to you and other now posting in this thread.



[/QUOTE]

 

Do you have pictures of your car with the hood mod?

How hard do you drive your car? Do you street race/track your car?

As I mentioned previosuly, I believe stillen has their newest kit which does NOT require hood mod anyways.

I like that because I don't want you looking at me, unless I WANT you looking at me. We have a ton of cops where I am, and I am always getting checked out, trailed, etc..etc... So the less reason I give them, the easier my life is.

You also mentioned another factor that I forgot about, but am also in line with is noise from TT and SC. The stillen is quiet except under max load (more or less).

Where the TT is going to make noise each time the thing spools up at load or otherwise, right?

another thing, Is TT carb legal like the stillen?

 

I think he meant E-01, which compliments the eManage and sells for a little over $500. The eManage comes preprogrammed with the kit.

-D

 

That makes more sense.

Hows your grounding kit working out for you?

 

So from previous posts, we found a Greddy TT and a Vortec SC user. In our posts we have a stillen user, any more stillen users out there?

Thanks

 

Hey alipine do you have a link or any photos of a stillen S/C that does not require a hood mod??? ive only heard speculation about this nothing concrete.

Just a little fyi I visited a shop here in town that is building two TT cars with forged internals and also they have a stillen S/C car.

Anyway these guys had a machine shop custom make 10lb pulleys for their stillen NON INTERCOOLED!!!! anyway they have flogged this car hard for about 5000k miles no problems yet however they said since its a roots style blower it makes tons on heat so they had ice packs on their S/C between 1/4 mile passes at the track because the S/C was so hot!!!

[Alpine: It is my understanding that you MUST have e-manage, so that's not even an option, and again 1-2K diference when all is said and done, isn't going to be the deciding factor.]

Sorry i ment E-01.

[ Alpine: I think I mentioned this, until i do more research, I'm thinking I would want SC for a daily driver and TT for play & track.'

I am well aware you can get much more from a turbo than SC.]

If you bolt on the greddy kit and leave it alone meaning leave it set at its factory tuning no horsing around with higher boost levels it makes more torque sooner than the stillen and will offer more horsepower up top as well..

Ok Alpine now I'm on a mission. You must embrace the wonderous and allpowerful greatness that which is the TURBO!!

I will now hunt for some links to post here may take a while but if i can just save one person from the darkness that which is supercharging..my duties will be done


"ILL BE BACK!''

 

I think I gained a little over 100 RWHP from the grounding kit Best $70 ever spent.

-D

 

Actually I was on another thread a while back, looking into this very thing, preliminarly speaking, and I ran into the guy from Stillen, his name is Alex Cates, he's the one who "sold" me on what SC offered vs TT.

I never made contact with the guy long enough to work out a deal so I let it go at the time, but he's the one who told me they had a non-hood-mod SC and 50 state CARB legal.


What shop, what town? You're not local right?


I've heard stories like this before, about dry ice and all, obviously I am not looking to stock up on Dry Ice so I can make 1/4 mile runs. If it's jerry rigged, I don't want to deal with it.

I'm not looking for it to be simply bolt-on-and-go but I don't want to pray every time I hammer it either.


Gotchya.

I gathered up some stuff already, none of it is proving anything yet though, plus I actually had to work today, so I didn't get to do enough drilling.

Heal me Brotha! Heal me!

Looking forward to it!

 

Ok here is a good link comparing all the superchargers against one another with dynos

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....s&pagenumber=2

And here is a greddy tt setup with some dynos much more impressive in my book


https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ght=gqmodel626

Of course there are alot more out there just takes forever to find
!