alpine

thanks, checking now.

Been, there.. Not bad.. Still looking for some direct comparisons, although this is helping. thanks!

SQUILL

LOL! Take my hand brother alpine and I will show you the light!!!

The shop is in Boulder Colorado. Boulder Nissan is the shop they said they had one of the first superchargers available in the country and at that time the intercooler wasnt available ...i asked them if they were going to put the intercooler on and they said no that they were going to sell the cas as the TT setup they were building was just so much better they were done messing with the sc.

Tons of people were asking/hoping there may be a roots sytle blower coming out without having to modify the hood and to date the only one is the fabled dreamworks S/C du out some time in 2276!

As i am working right now as well its tough to get time right now to fing more links but i guarentee you lika a good trial attorney the case im building for the TT will prove beond any reasonable doubt that it is vastly superior and innocent of all charges brought against it!!!!

alpine

Bring it!

2003z

iTrader: (7)

I drag race and go to track days/autocross, so you could say I drive it pretty hard. Here is a pic with the hood scoop. I'll post a pic of the whole hood in white later, I'm just about to set it on the car and get it painted this week.

Stillen does sell another supercharger, but its the vortech. I can't see them developing another one with all the work that went into this one, but I could be wrong.

2003z

iTrader: (7)

full stillen hood.

2003z

iTrader: (7)

I;m traveling monday thru thursday, so I'm bringing the car to ZPRESENCE in orlando to paint on friday and pick it up the following weekend. Here is the old hood, perfect and scratchless, and for sale!

SQUILL

OK this took quite a while but i am willing to do whatever it takes to help my client mr turbo!

I dont know how to post two pics at once so here is a stock greddy tt dyno

SQUILL

And after tons of searching courtesy of mr 2003z himself a pic of the stillen stage 2 dynograph.

Let the evidence speak for its self mr jury!!!!

SQUILL

both of those last dynos were in stock form ..check out some modified tt dynos click this link!!!

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=71480

2003z

iTrader: (7)

and mine was with gutted cats.. Since I put real ones in, my air fuel ratio is in line where it shoudl be and I should be making 340 at the wheels.

2003z

iTrader: (7)

check out that stillen torque curve. No arguing with that!!!!

SQUILL

That torque curve is nice!!! Boulder nissan has been running custom made 10lbs boost pulleys non intercooled very hard lots of track runs with no intercooler and no problems except for the heat issue with no IC!!!

Since you have the intercooler lets see you run some 10lb pulleys on your car and post some dynos !!!!!!

Now that would be sweet!!!!!!!

APS

Yeah but watch the horsepower disappear when you give the car 3 to 4 dyno runs close together, the air temperature gets real ugly and the power keeps falling away.

Peter

APS

alpine

The case for turbo is a good one.

I'll have to dredge up some reports on reliability of turbos. That was the 2nd thing that pushed me into SC.

I think I saw something at motortrend where they have a Greddy TT they are driving/following up on.

thanks again

2003z

iTrader: (7)

Actually you couldn't be farther from the truth. 4 dyno runs and each one got successively more power.

alpine

This tends to be the norm in most cases, I was surprised about his statement regarding power loss, but as I am not as knowledgeable as I'd like to be, I couldn't say anything.

SQUILL

Peter from air power systems (APS) would be considered an expert in turbos you should check out their website

http://www.************************/

Turbos are the only way to go checkout the american spec vehicles and the 350z system they are devoleping due out in september this year

What i think he means is the heat in a roots style blower system is always your enemy they generate tons of heat. The more boost you make with a roots blower the more heat it makes i can assure you a good turbo setup will long outlast any blower.

the harder you run a car with a blower the more heat you creat always reaching a certain point where the heat generated caps out your max power. turbos are the light go towards the light the light is good and the darkness is bad

alpine

Interesting, checking that out now.

actually I had already considered that, but I also kep in mind that Car Manufactuers seem to do lame crap more often than not.


You know what, you're right. Heat is bad, and I think we all know that heat is bad, I guess I had not considered the heat generation differences between the two technologies, perhaps that is what the turbo guys should really be saying instead of the "belt" driven complaint and the loss of 5/10HP.

Also, in either case, I was going to go intercooler, so doesn't that significantly help in the heat problem for SC?

Agreed, if the intercooler doesn't offset this enough.


yes master....

alpine

That's good that we brought this subject back up, how does the ambient air temperature affect either of these technologies?

I'm souther california, and it's going to be 90-115 for the next 5 months.

I seem to recall there being a concern with outside temperature when using FI.

This may be under extreme conditions or something, maybe you have to lay off the pedal, I don't know.

What do you have to consider when you have FI and these temperatures outside the car both normal and agrresive driving?

thanks

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Wow...I thought we had beaten this topic to death...but great posts. I am always willing to throw in my .02.

Joe, I think you rememeber me. I'm Sharif...we met at the Peformance Nissan back in Jan when I was in the process of buying my first mod for the car...a popchager!! Then we met again at the Strict Dyno in Reseda where your car turned a stunning 253whp (i think) with just a Typhoon cold air thingy, and a grounding kit. Mine turned a measly 227whp with the Popcharger.


OK, I was scanning through the posts...and I wanted to clarify a couple of points...and common misconceptions about the drawbacks/benifits of SC vs. TT.

1) The Greddy TT has virtually no turbo lag whatsoever. I have full boost at 2.5K, depending on the gear, and my dynos are showing 300ft/lbs of torque at about 3000 rpm! Even at 2400rpm, I have about 280lbs/torque. This TT kit is a torque monster at all RPM's, and the power is INSTANTANOUS. Don't believe the hype about TT having bad turbo lag. This isn't a high reving honda or acura. With the natural torque of the 350Z, and the higher compression motor, turbo lag is virtually eliminated on both the PE kits and the Greddy Kit. To me...this is the single biggest advantage of the TT kits vs. SC. Although they both have similar peak HP numbers, the TT kit has tons more area under the crurve, and more TRQ across the board. This is what makes a car FUN to drive on the street.

Here is a link to my dyno. Oh, ignore the A/F...this is what happens when you loose the RPM singal to the eManage...woooops. No pinging though...thank GOD.

http://www.savepic.com/is.php?i=5360...d_Evo2_Ext.jpg

2) SC's are not more reliable that TT's. I would clasify them as similar in terms of reliabilty. SC's tend to go through belts relatively quickly, especially in the 400whp+ range. I know the ATI's were snapping belts more readily than the Vortech....but still be prepared to have a supply of very expensive belts...depending on what SC kit you choose. The belts tend to need adjusting quite frequently as well, and under the hood dust is sometimes in issue. The SC and TT have their own strengths and weaknesses when it comes to reliability. SC's have MUCH simplier installation, and reversabily to stock. TT's have more complex pumping, costs, and heat issues. But a properly installed, tuned, cooled, and oil changed TT kit can last for the life of the car...no problem. Personally, the only thing I do to maintain my turbo is change the oil synthetic every 3000miles, and let the car idle for 1.5minutes at shutdown via turbo timer. I also installed a BOV to prevent damaging compressor surge


3) TT gives you more tuning options. To change boost on a SC, you need to change to different pullies...and lets just say...they are not that wasy to swap out. With a TT, a simle boost controller does the job. The eManage unit that comes with the TT hit is highly programmable, and incredibly accurate, without the drawbacks of an AFC or a stand-alone. With the eManage, and Profec e-01 (boost controller/eManage programmer), you can do several things...here is a short-list:
a) add injector duty cycle
b) control larger injectors up to 150% BIGGER than stock. The neat thing is the eManage will scale them down at cruise and dile so your car will start and cruise normally.
c) retard timing (via $30 timing harness and diodes). This can be boost/RPM based, or MAF Voltage/RPM based. Very cool!
d) Bypass the MAF sensor and convert to MAP based system
e) run sub-injectors
f) clamp MAF voltage to elimate limp modes at high boost levels
g) superb data-logging cabilities.
h) Store 3 different ignition/fuel/timing maps on the SD card, and run those maps based on a different boost setttings. Example, I could have a 5psi, 7psi, and 8.5psi map...and load them on the go.

4) To me, the ONLY big disadvantage of the TT kit is costs. as mentioned, the kit is about $2000 more than the Vortech. I have seen Vortechs for very close to $4000, and Greddy kits for $6000. Labor is also about $500-$1000 more than a typical Vortech installation.

In every performance and upgradability measure, the TT beats the SC. Not trying to sound like a TT snob.. All F/I cars of tons of fun, it really comes down to personal preferene, and your budget.

Call me if you wanna ride in my car Joe....I left you a PM with my number. I live in Pasadena.