best superchager
06-13-2004, 09:03 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: tulsa, ok.
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
best superchager
in you guy's opinion what is the best supercharger for our cars and why? and what kit puts out the most HP . thanks for the info guys
06-13-2004, 10:01 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This depends on your requirements:
Ati procharger The good: easy install, good performance, solid company, most overall power at any given PSI. Neutral: quite loud, marginal fuel management, 1 year warranty, self lubricating design. The bad: seems to have minimal upgradeability.
Vortech, The good: highest potential performance, solid company, excellent fuel management, 3 year warranty on SC, software to hook up to your laptop to monitor engine performance. Neutral: most silent of all the SC’s. Bad: Have to tap the oil pan, slightly more pricy install than Ati.
Stillen: The good: most consistent power gains at earlier RPM’s, available 36000 mile warranty for drive train and SC, NEUTRAL: must replace/modify hood, available in intercooled and non-intercooled versions, BAD: biggest gas mileage hit, most overall engine wear, peak torque and hp not as high as other units, intercooler design not ideal
My advice call GRUBBS INFINITI in Dallas. Talk to them and read posts on this forum and my350.com (forced induction section). Make the trip to GRUBBS when you make your decision. They are worth the drive.
Ati procharger The good: easy install, good performance, solid company, most overall power at any given PSI. Neutral: quite loud, marginal fuel management, 1 year warranty, self lubricating design. The bad: seems to have minimal upgradeability.
Vortech, The good: highest potential performance, solid company, excellent fuel management, 3 year warranty on SC, software to hook up to your laptop to monitor engine performance. Neutral: most silent of all the SC’s. Bad: Have to tap the oil pan, slightly more pricy install than Ati.
Stillen: The good: most consistent power gains at earlier RPM’s, available 36000 mile warranty for drive train and SC, NEUTRAL: must replace/modify hood, available in intercooled and non-intercooled versions, BAD: biggest gas mileage hit, most overall engine wear, peak torque and hp not as high as other units, intercooler design not ideal
My advice call GRUBBS INFINITI in Dallas. Talk to them and read posts on this forum and my350.com (forced induction section). Make the trip to GRUBBS when you make your decision. They are worth the drive.
06-14-2004, 06:37 AM
#3
New Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 4,959
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nice summary Houston. Just have to say though, I haven't noticed a gas mileage hit with the stillen. I get 20-22mpg city and 27hwy with it. Also, not that it would matter to someone in OK, but its also the only 50 state legal kit.
06-14-2004, 07:18 AM
#5
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Houston G35
This depends on your requirements:
Ati procharger The good: easy install, good performance, solid company, most overall power at any given PSI. Neutral: quite loud, marginal fuel management, 1 year warranty, self lubricating design. The bad: seems to have minimal upgradeability.
This depends on your requirements:
Ati procharger The good: easy install, good performance, solid company, most overall power at any given PSI. Neutral: quite loud, marginal fuel management, 1 year warranty, self lubricating design. The bad: seems to have minimal upgradeability.
Why I didn't buy the vortech besides the power issue:
1) You need to drill a hole in your oil pan. If something does go wrong with the blower it could destroy your engine as well. (not good)-ATI is self feeding/lubricating. There is an oil change tool included in the kit and takes all of 5 minutes to change every 5-6K miles.
2) The air filter is nearly impossible to remove to clean or replace. The whole blower needs to be removed so you don't destroy the filter during installation or cleaning. Many have relocated this item.
3) The bracket is made of plastic. For those thinking of really increasing the power, a plastic bracket is kind of a scary thing. At 8 PSI this insn't a problem but at 10 PSI I may be a little worried.
4) The best fuel management solution out currently (imo) is made by technosquare. Many using the split second box have had problems using the two in conjunction. The TS ecu increases the rev limiter, controls timing, opens the TB more, controls fuel and other beneficial things. Most guys that have the ATI kit purchase the tuner kit, then buy PE injectors and have their ecu flashed. (This upgrade costs about the same as the full ATI kit which I originally purchased.)
Currently I have the ecu flash and bigger injectors with my ATI kit. I also added the 9lbs pulley and expect to dyno around 415rwhp-430rwtq this week with my 5AT.
06-14-2004, 09:17 AM
#6
That is a very balanced summary Houston, nice job.
I have run my ATI right next to a Vortech and I would not say that it is louder, if anything it might have been a smidgeon quieter. The pitch was different. But the difference is not really a big issue on sound.
Both of the units are very good and they work. They are both centrifugals and operate pretty comparably to turbos, except with belt drive there is quicker response, and concomitant parasitic drag on hp. The roots blower is a different approach to compressing the charge, so called positive displacement, and it works very effectively too. They both have some issues and what is important is that whoever gets one understands that with any kind of FI application it really is not a simple "bolt and go" type thing. You have to put a lot more into it than that up front, and thereafter.
Bottom line, they go like gangbusters when you get it set up right. To get excited about which is better is like trying to figure out if you should lick your ice cream come from the left or from the right. Just enjoy.
Cheers.
I have run my ATI right next to a Vortech and I would not say that it is louder, if anything it might have been a smidgeon quieter. The pitch was different. But the difference is not really a big issue on sound.
Both of the units are very good and they work. They are both centrifugals and operate pretty comparably to turbos, except with belt drive there is quicker response, and concomitant parasitic drag on hp. The roots blower is a different approach to compressing the charge, so called positive displacement, and it works very effectively too. They both have some issues and what is important is that whoever gets one understands that with any kind of FI application it really is not a simple "bolt and go" type thing. You have to put a lot more into it than that up front, and thereafter.
Bottom line, they go like gangbusters when you get it set up right. To get excited about which is better is like trying to figure out if you should lick your ice cream come from the left or from the right. Just enjoy.
Cheers.
06-14-2004, 10:57 AM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by whosdady
I would have to disagree... The ATI blower is by far able to produce the most power out of these three kits in stock or non stock form. (The ATI kit makes the same power at 7PSI as the vortech does at 8PSI) It is just as easy, if not easier to upgrade as the vortech (install of a smaller pulley)and is not any louder as witnessed by several at the Z meet in TN in April. There is a 3 year warranty that is optional with the kit that includes S/C oil, good for 18K miles. The total cost of this warranty is $49 (which most shops include for free).
Why I didn't buy the vortech besides the power issue:
1) You need to drill a hole in your oil pan. If something does go wrong with the blower it could destroy your engine as well. (not good)-ATI is self feeding/lubricating. There is an oil change tool included in the kit and takes all of 5 minutes to change every 5-6K miles.
2) The air filter is nearly impossible to remove to clean or replace. The whole blower needs to be removed so you don't destroy the filter during installation or cleaning. Many have relocated this item.
3) The bracket is made of plastic. For those thinking of really increasing the power, a plastic bracket is kind of a scary thing. At 8 PSI this insn't a problem but at 10 PSI I may be a little worried.
4) The best fuel management solution out currently (imo) is made by technosquare. Many using the split second box have had problems using the two in conjunction. The TS ecu increases the rev limiter, controls timing, opens the TB more, controls fuel and other beneficial things. Most guys that have the ATI kit purchase the tuner kit, then buy PE injectors and have their ecu flashed. (This upgrade costs about the same as the full ATI kit which I originally purchased.)
I would have to disagree... The ATI blower is by far able to produce the most power out of these three kits in stock or non stock form. (The ATI kit makes the same power at 7PSI as the vortech does at 8PSI) It is just as easy, if not easier to upgrade as the vortech (install of a smaller pulley)and is not any louder as witnessed by several at the Z meet in TN in April. There is a 3 year warranty that is optional with the kit that includes S/C oil, good for 18K miles. The total cost of this warranty is $49 (which most shops include for free).
Why I didn't buy the vortech besides the power issue:
1) You need to drill a hole in your oil pan. If something does go wrong with the blower it could destroy your engine as well. (not good)-ATI is self feeding/lubricating. There is an oil change tool included in the kit and takes all of 5 minutes to change every 5-6K miles.
2) The air filter is nearly impossible to remove to clean or replace. The whole blower needs to be removed so you don't destroy the filter during installation or cleaning. Many have relocated this item.
3) The bracket is made of plastic. For those thinking of really increasing the power, a plastic bracket is kind of a scary thing. At 8 PSI this insn't a problem but at 10 PSI I may be a little worried.
4) The best fuel management solution out currently (imo) is made by technosquare. Many using the split second box have had problems using the two in conjunction. The TS ecu increases the rev limiter, controls timing, opens the TB more, controls fuel and other beneficial things. Most guys that have the ATI kit purchase the tuner kit, then buy PE injectors and have their ecu flashed. (This upgrade costs about the same as the full ATI kit which I originally purchased.)
Trending Topics
06-14-2004, 01:37 PM
#10
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Forced
I would disagree with you. The ATI may have made the same power at a lower boost level, but where was the timing? We retard timing to safely run that amount of boost. Comparing boost to boost in some cases may not be apples to apples. I have argued the hole in the pan a bunch of times on here, and I can again if you like. The bracket is made of plastic? Which bracket? The main bracket? I hope you don't think that is made of plastic. Please respond.
I would disagree with you. The ATI may have made the same power at a lower boost level, but where was the timing? We retard timing to safely run that amount of boost. Comparing boost to boost in some cases may not be apples to apples. I have argued the hole in the pan a bunch of times on here, and I can again if you like. The bracket is made of plastic? Which bracket? The main bracket? I hope you don't think that is made of plastic. Please respond.
Concerning the bracket, I am referring to the blower bracket or main bracket. Maybe vortech calls it something different? It is black in color and holds the blower. I was slightly kidding about it being made of plastic. However, it does look flimsy in comparision to the procharger blower bracket. May I ask what it is made of?
Honestly, tell me what could be positive about drillling your oil pan... Many say that the vortech blower runs hotter than ati and that is why it produces less power and doesn't last as long. (becuase it is running on hot engine oil) Also do you really think the v2 blower is capable of producing the same PSI as the ATI c2 blowers?
By the way, I am not saying the Vortech kit is bad. I am just stating why I chose the ATI kit opposed to the vortech kit and those were the concerns I had. If it matters, vortech would have been my second choice.
06-14-2004, 02:19 PM
#11
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Miami
Posts: 553
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, dude, the bracket is definitely very stiff metal. (Sorry, I don't know how it was made.)
About the oil, I haven't checked the actual temp, but the oil system is a marketing point for both companies. ATI says " you don't have to tap the pan, our oil is cooler, doesn't mix with HOT engine oil, etc." Vortech says "we'd rather have 5 quarts of COOLING, filtered oil than 10 oz of unfiltered oil that can't dissipate heat." (Tapping the pan reall isn't that hard)
One plus about the Vortech is the ss box, boost controlled fmu and fuel pump are a better solution to fuel than the ATI DFMU and pump. Now, I agree that a TS reflash with larger injectors and timing control is the BEST solution, although, it's not end user programmable. Maybe TS will offer a reflash for the Vortech soon as well.
Just a few points from a Vortech owner.
About the oil, I haven't checked the actual temp, but the oil system is a marketing point for both companies. ATI says " you don't have to tap the pan, our oil is cooler, doesn't mix with HOT engine oil, etc." Vortech says "we'd rather have 5 quarts of COOLING, filtered oil than 10 oz of unfiltered oil that can't dissipate heat." (Tapping the pan reall isn't that hard)
One plus about the Vortech is the ss box, boost controlled fmu and fuel pump are a better solution to fuel than the ATI DFMU and pump. Now, I agree that a TS reflash with larger injectors and timing control is the BEST solution, although, it's not end user programmable. Maybe TS will offer a reflash for the Vortech soon as well.
Just a few points from a Vortech owner.
06-14-2004, 02:51 PM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by whosdady
With the 7 lb pulley and stillen exhaust my 5AT made 368rwhp. I had zero detonation and the AF was between 11-12 during wot. Timing was not adjusted from stock settings. One other modification I did was change the spark plugs one degree cooler as suggested by ATI. If I remember correctly my timing was close to 30 at 7PSI. This is why I changed to the TS ECU which controls the timing to my desired level. With this upgrade I also installed larger injectors, a new fuel pump and a fuel pressure regulator. (IMO, all of which are reccomended if you install a different pulley capable of running 10+psi of boost) Techonsquare would be happy to explain the potential issues using a piggy back system like the ss box. They are the ones that talked me out of the dfmu and external fuel pump.
Concerning the bracket, I am referring to the blower bracket or main bracket. Maybe vortech calls it something different? It is black in color and holds the blower. I was slightly kidding about it being made of plastic. However, it does look flimsy in comparision to the procharger blower bracket. May I ask what it is made of?
Honestly, tell me what could be positive about drillling your oil pan... Many say that the vortech blower runs hotter than ati and that is why it produces less power and doesn't last as long. (becuase it is running on hot engine oil) Also do you really think the v2 blower is capable of producing the same PSI as the ATI c2 blowers?
By the way, I am not saying the Vortech kit is bad. I am just stating why I chose the ATI kit opposed to the vortech kit and those were the concerns I had. If it matters, vortech would have been my second choice.
With the 7 lb pulley and stillen exhaust my 5AT made 368rwhp. I had zero detonation and the AF was between 11-12 during wot. Timing was not adjusted from stock settings. One other modification I did was change the spark plugs one degree cooler as suggested by ATI. If I remember correctly my timing was close to 30 at 7PSI. This is why I changed to the TS ECU which controls the timing to my desired level. With this upgrade I also installed larger injectors, a new fuel pump and a fuel pressure regulator. (IMO, all of which are reccomended if you install a different pulley capable of running 10+psi of boost) Techonsquare would be happy to explain the potential issues using a piggy back system like the ss box. They are the ones that talked me out of the dfmu and external fuel pump.
Concerning the bracket, I am referring to the blower bracket or main bracket. Maybe vortech calls it something different? It is black in color and holds the blower. I was slightly kidding about it being made of plastic. However, it does look flimsy in comparision to the procharger blower bracket. May I ask what it is made of?
Honestly, tell me what could be positive about drillling your oil pan... Many say that the vortech blower runs hotter than ati and that is why it produces less power and doesn't last as long. (becuase it is running on hot engine oil) Also do you really think the v2 blower is capable of producing the same PSI as the ATI c2 blowers?
By the way, I am not saying the Vortech kit is bad. I am just stating why I chose the ATI kit opposed to the vortech kit and those were the concerns I had. If it matters, vortech would have been my second choice.
On the oil drain/oil feed: The maintenance-free lubrication system uses engine oil that is pre-filtered and injected directly onto the drive gears. We chose this configuration as opposed to a "self-contained" set-up because engine oil provides faster warm-up, excellent reliability and superior cooling. The lubrication oil benefits from continuous filtration, being routinely changed along with the engine oil (instead of an additional maintenance action). This system also offers the best opportunity for thermally stable operation. Vortech firmly believes this is the best method to feed and care for a supercharger.
Another thing is you have this heat generating machine. It has metal parts moving within, it's going to get hot. If it is self contained, where does the heat go?
Yes, I think the V2 is capable of great things. We know for a fact what the flow numbers are, we have the only supercharger dyno in the industry. Not only do we know what our blowers can do, we know what our competitors blowers will do. I would like to offer up some reading:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...ts/inside.html
and
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...s/testing.html
and
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...fficiency.html
Finally, our test papers:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...iency_test.pdf
06-14-2004, 03:35 PM
#13
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Forced
I am glad things worked out for you. Sounds like you have a good setup. The mounting bracket is 6061 aluminum. Maybe it looks flimsy because we anodized it instead of keeping the raw-look finish?
On the oil drain/oil feed: The maintenance-free lubrication system uses engine oil that is pre-filtered and injected directly onto the drive gears. We chose this configuration as opposed to a "self-contained" set-up because engine oil provides faster warm-up, excellent reliability and superior cooling. The lubrication oil benefits from continuous filtration, being routinely changed along with the engine oil (instead of an additional maintenance action). This system also offers the best opportunity for thermally stable operation. Vortech firmly believes this is the best method to feed and care for a supercharger.
Another thing is you have this heat generating machine. It has metal parts moving within, it's going to get hot. If it is self contained, where does the heat go?
Yes, I think the V2 is capable of great things. We know for a fact what the flow numbers are, we have the only supercharger dyno in the industry. Not only do we know what our blowers can do, we know what our competitors blowers will do. I would like to offer up some reading:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...ts/inside.html
and
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...s/testing.html
and
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...fficiency.html
Finally, our test papers:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...iency_test.pdf
I am glad things worked out for you. Sounds like you have a good setup. The mounting bracket is 6061 aluminum. Maybe it looks flimsy because we anodized it instead of keeping the raw-look finish?
On the oil drain/oil feed: The maintenance-free lubrication system uses engine oil that is pre-filtered and injected directly onto the drive gears. We chose this configuration as opposed to a "self-contained" set-up because engine oil provides faster warm-up, excellent reliability and superior cooling. The lubrication oil benefits from continuous filtration, being routinely changed along with the engine oil (instead of an additional maintenance action). This system also offers the best opportunity for thermally stable operation. Vortech firmly believes this is the best method to feed and care for a supercharger.
Another thing is you have this heat generating machine. It has metal parts moving within, it's going to get hot. If it is self contained, where does the heat go?
Yes, I think the V2 is capable of great things. We know for a fact what the flow numbers are, we have the only supercharger dyno in the industry. Not only do we know what our blowers can do, we know what our competitors blowers will do. I would like to offer up some reading:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...ts/inside.html
and
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...s/testing.html
and
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...fficiency.html
Finally, our test papers:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...iency_test.pdf
As far as the heat thing goes. When we dynoed my car for the first time back in August of 03. My blower was cool to the touch after 4 pulls. I could not believe it. I come from a single turbo supra background where you can cook breakfast on the blower. In my case with my 350Z, the plenum is always hotter than my blower. This would lead me to believe that the oil in my engine is hotter than the oil running through my blower. I would assume this would heat up my blower and cause wear and decreased power. (If you disagree with this and feel the blower oil is hotter, I would tell you that I would not want that hot oil running through my engine parts caused by the blower) Either way, I feel the self lubricating method is superior for the Z applicaitoin. Not only is it safer for the blower but also for the engine.
I am not the only one who perfers the ATI kit. As you know, some of the most highly recognized 350Z's run ATI prochargers... http://www.procharger.com/350z_profiles.shtml
Again, I am not knocking the vortech kit. I am simply stating why I chose ATI.
Last edited by whosdady; 06-14-2004 at 03:46 PM.
06-14-2004, 03:48 PM
#14
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by whosdady
Steve, I appreciate your response. I think you make some good points. I am not the only one who felt this way about the bracket. I have heard this complaint form a number of others. It is thinner/smaller than the bracket used with the ATI kit, hence my response. The black paint helps but is not as nice as the polished ATI brakcet. Also as mentioned earlier, the filter location is located in a less than desirable location for cleaning or repalcement.
As far as the heat thing goes. When we dynoed my car for the first time back in August of 03. My blower was cool to the touch after 4 pulls. I could not believe it. I come from a single turbo supra background where you can cook breakfast on the blower. In my case with my 350Z, the plenum is always hotter than my blower. This would lead me to believe that the oil in my engine is hotter than the oil running through my blower. I would assume this would heat up my blower and cause wear and decreased power. (If you disagree with this and feel the blower oil is hotter, I would tell you that I would not want that hot oil running through my engine parts caused by the blower) Either way, I feel the self lubricating method is superior for the Z applicatoin. Not only is it safer for the blower but also for the engine.
I am not the only one who perfers the ATI kit. As you know, some of the most highly recognized 350Z's run ATI prochargers... http://www.procharger.com/350z_profiles.shtml
Again, I am not knocking the vortech kit. I am simply stating why I chose ATI.
Steve, I appreciate your response. I think you make some good points. I am not the only one who felt this way about the bracket. I have heard this complaint form a number of others. It is thinner/smaller than the bracket used with the ATI kit, hence my response. The black paint helps but is not as nice as the polished ATI brakcet. Also as mentioned earlier, the filter location is located in a less than desirable location for cleaning or repalcement.
As far as the heat thing goes. When we dynoed my car for the first time back in August of 03. My blower was cool to the touch after 4 pulls. I could not believe it. I come from a single turbo supra background where you can cook breakfast on the blower. In my case with my 350Z, the plenum is always hotter than my blower. This would lead me to believe that the oil in my engine is hotter than the oil running through my blower. I would assume this would heat up my blower and cause wear and decreased power. (If you disagree with this and feel the blower oil is hotter, I would tell you that I would not want that hot oil running through my engine parts caused by the blower) Either way, I feel the self lubricating method is superior for the Z applicatoin. Not only is it safer for the blower but also for the engine.
I am not the only one who perfers the ATI kit. As you know, some of the most highly recognized 350Z's run ATI prochargers... http://www.procharger.com/350z_profiles.shtml
Again, I am not knocking the vortech kit. I am simply stating why I chose ATI.
06-15-2004, 07:04 AM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by whosdady
Steve, I appreciate your response. I think you make some good points. I am not the only one who felt this way about the bracket. I have heard this complaint form a number of others. It is thinner/smaller than the bracket used with the ATI kit, hence my response. The black paint helps but is not as nice as the polished ATI brakcet. Also as mentioned earlier, the filter location is located in a less than desirable location for cleaning or repalcement.
As far as the heat thing goes. When we dynoed my car for the first time back in August of 03. My blower was cool to the touch after 4 pulls. I could not believe it. I come from a single turbo supra background where you can cook breakfast on the blower. In my case with my 350Z, the plenum is always hotter than my blower. This would lead me to believe that the oil in my engine is hotter than the oil running through my blower. I would assume this would heat up my blower and cause wear and decreased power. (If you disagree with this and feel the blower oil is hotter, I would tell you that I would not want that hot oil running through my engine parts caused by the blower) Either way, I feel the self lubricating method is superior for the Z applicaitoin. Not only is it safer for the blower but also for the engine.
I am not the only one who perfers the ATI kit. As you know, some of the most highly recognized 350Z's run ATI prochargers... http://www.procharger.com/350z_profiles.shtml
Again, I am not knocking the vortech kit. I am simply stating why I chose ATI.
Steve, I appreciate your response. I think you make some good points. I am not the only one who felt this way about the bracket. I have heard this complaint form a number of others. It is thinner/smaller than the bracket used with the ATI kit, hence my response. The black paint helps but is not as nice as the polished ATI brakcet. Also as mentioned earlier, the filter location is located in a less than desirable location for cleaning or repalcement.
As far as the heat thing goes. When we dynoed my car for the first time back in August of 03. My blower was cool to the touch after 4 pulls. I could not believe it. I come from a single turbo supra background where you can cook breakfast on the blower. In my case with my 350Z, the plenum is always hotter than my blower. This would lead me to believe that the oil in my engine is hotter than the oil running through my blower. I would assume this would heat up my blower and cause wear and decreased power. (If you disagree with this and feel the blower oil is hotter, I would tell you that I would not want that hot oil running through my engine parts caused by the blower) Either way, I feel the self lubricating method is superior for the Z applicaitoin. Not only is it safer for the blower but also for the engine.
I am not the only one who perfers the ATI kit. As you know, some of the most highly recognized 350Z's run ATI prochargers... http://www.procharger.com/350z_profiles.shtml
Again, I am not knocking the vortech kit. I am simply stating why I chose ATI.
06-15-2004, 07:46 AM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 1,671
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by CaneZMD
Yeah, dude, the bracket is definitely very stiff metal. (Sorry, I don't know how it was made.)
About the oil, I haven't checked the actual temp, but the oil system is a marketing point for both companies. ATI says " you don't have to tap the pan, our oil is cooler, doesn't mix with HOT engine oil, etc." Vortech says "we'd rather have 5 quarts of COOLING, filtered oil than 10 oz of unfiltered oil that can't dissipate heat." (Tapping the pan reall isn't that hard)
One plus about the Vortech is the ss box, boost controlled fmu and fuel pump are a better solution to fuel than the ATI DFMU and pump. Now, I agree that a TS reflash with larger injectors and timing control is the BEST solution, although, it's not end user programmable. Maybe TS will offer a reflash for the Vortech soon as well.
Just a few points from a Vortech owner.
Yeah, dude, the bracket is definitely very stiff metal. (Sorry, I don't know how it was made.)
About the oil, I haven't checked the actual temp, but the oil system is a marketing point for both companies. ATI says " you don't have to tap the pan, our oil is cooler, doesn't mix with HOT engine oil, etc." Vortech says "we'd rather have 5 quarts of COOLING, filtered oil than 10 oz of unfiltered oil that can't dissipate heat." (Tapping the pan reall isn't that hard)
One plus about the Vortech is the ss box, boost controlled fmu and fuel pump are a better solution to fuel than the ATI DFMU and pump. Now, I agree that a TS reflash with larger injectors and timing control is the BEST solution, although, it's not end user programmable. Maybe TS will offer a reflash for the Vortech soon as well.
Just a few points from a Vortech owner.
My thanks must go out to CaneZMD for responding to all my PM's with questions!
06-15-2004, 09:11 AM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by SungNamZ
I "Ditto" CaneZMD's comments. While doing it DIY was time consuming, it was very enjoyable. The "Installation Instructions" provided by Vortech are excellent. Once you get past the fear of drilling and tapping your oil pan, it is all down hill. Well almost! Cutting away plastic to make room for the ducting did slow me down. Again, a very enjoyable and now rewarding DIY project.
My thanks must go out to CaneZMD for responding to all my PM's with questions!
I "Ditto" CaneZMD's comments. While doing it DIY was time consuming, it was very enjoyable. The "Installation Instructions" provided by Vortech are excellent. Once you get past the fear of drilling and tapping your oil pan, it is all down hill. Well almost! Cutting away plastic to make room for the ducting did slow me down. Again, a very enjoyable and now rewarding DIY project.
My thanks must go out to CaneZMD for responding to all my PM's with questions!
long time no see. Well, congratulations on your new toy. I've been meaning to ask you if there have been any other local meetings, since a new guy on this board (from Albq also) sent me an email to see if we wanted to meet. Anyway, have you had a chance to take the car back to the track? Also which pully are you running (I heard there was a new 9 pound pulley available)? I'd love to check out your car (as usual
) whenever you get a chance.Regarding the ATI vs Vortech, I disagree that tapping into the oil pan is a NEGATIVE. It really is not that difficult (I have worked on a couple of friend's cars with turbos) and I believe that it is a POSITIVE that you get to use the oil already in place (the unit is self maintaining). Also, nobody has mentioned the pricing difference between these two. I believe (and I think most people would) that both systems can yield very similar numbers and are both quality made, but the Vortech is priced about $1000+ cheaper (last I checked...correct me if I am wrong).
06-15-2004, 09:57 AM
#19
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Forced
Again on the bracket. I believe ATI does a clear anodize and we do a black anodize. Please do not mistake this for paint. I will say that the filter location may not be ideal, but I am not the engineer and have expressed my concerns to our engineering staff about it. I like what another member on this forum did with a smaller K&N. I know of the cars that ATI has on their website. They were first to market with their system, which gave them the opportunity to get on those high-profile cars. We have our fair share of them out there as well and I will be putting our own list together for all to see. By the way, someone should call the company who owns the yellow car on their website and see how it is running.
Again on the bracket. I believe ATI does a clear anodize and we do a black anodize. Please do not mistake this for paint. I will say that the filter location may not be ideal, but I am not the engineer and have expressed my concerns to our engineering staff about it. I like what another member on this forum did with a smaller K&N. I know of the cars that ATI has on their website. They were first to market with their system, which gave them the opportunity to get on those high-profile cars. We have our fair share of them out there as well and I will be putting our own list together for all to see. By the way, someone should call the company who owns the yellow car on their website and see how it is running.
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/.../350z_dyno.jpg
It shows a peak hp rating of 301 rwhp. (110 rwhp gain over stock) My gain over stock was 146 rwhp at 7psi. Now I understand you pull timing and that is partially to blame, however it still seems low. With the ATI kit, each PSI represents roughly 20 rwhp. If I had put an 8 lb pulley (like your kit) I would have increased by roughly 166 rwhp over stock, which is 56 rwhp better than what your car did at the same boost level.
Concerning the axis car... If you are saying the car is having problems caused by the supercharger, that is news to me. I will try to confirm either way.