triax

Ok working on fixing up my Z to have forced induction. I'm basically going to use the car as a daily driver, so I want the engine to last as long as possile. I'm not looking for the highest output, just some very serious spirited driving!

What would you suggest to prevent a blown engine if possible? Would piston and rod upgrades be the best? Pretty much a newbie here, but looking to the future. any info would be great!
thanks

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Check out this thread...and PM if you need some rods and pistons.

There is a lot of good general information in it as well.

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=85958

triax

very nice. thanks!

dansouliere

How much boost could the Pauter Forged Rods and Arias Forged Pistons handle?

I am seriously considering the APS TT kit and would love to run 12psi daily witch I am guessing is 500rwhp+.

Z33Concept

U could easily run 12 PSi with Arias Pistons and Pauter Rods

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

500-600 no problem at all. The engine and these forged internals are capable of much more.

dansouliere

Thats good news.. I may consider 15psi for the track but that wont happen often. This is my daily driver also.

Would you reccomend 8.5cr or 9.0cr for my goals?

Thanks.

Lorca@Z1

I'm skepticle about making 500+whp on 12psi with 8.5 or even 9/1 pistons. The GReddy kit has been consistantly putting down 400+ at 9psi on stock compression. Lowering the compression is going to lower the output at 9psi but give more room to turn up the boost.

BTW, the Pauter rods are complete overkill for this application. Try Carrillo A beams.

Enron Exec

A member on the boards, 03 ppw350Z, made ~520 rwhp with 8.5 Aarias at 13.6psi via GreddyTT and stock emanage settings. Stock heads and cams. I assume the stock emanage settigns dont pull any timming so maybe that is how he got that much power.

SGP made 600+ rwhp with 8.5 pistons, cams, light head work with the Greddy at 18 psi.

I bet 9.5 pistons on 12psi will come close to 500 rwhp with stock heads and cams.

Im planning on revving the motor a bit, especially if i keep the ATI SC, so im glad i got the Pauter rods now.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

yup...tunning is everything. I've seen massive difference between good and bad tunes, and the peak HP achieved. For instance, at 8.5psi, my car is making about 400whp. But when phunk tuned his stock block car with the HKS pro-f-con, he got about 470whp at 8psi (I think it was 8....someonecorrect me if I am wrong).

600whp is realistically closer to a tightly tuned 18-20psi at 8.5:1 to 9.0:1 CR.

Lorca@Z1

I can see 500rwhp on 9.5 but probably not on 8.5 or 9. Also if that was with race gas its not really a practicle daily driver power level unless you always fill with race gas.

The reference to high revving was more like 8500 to 10000 for extended periods of time and on an NA motor. I doubt you plan on revving like that!?

I really give the statement by Carrillo a lot of creidt because we were asking which of thier designs were best suited to the FI VQ application. They could have very easily tried to sell us on the more expensive and heavier I beam design but they clearly felt it was overkill. That being said, I have bo doubt you will truly enjoy your Arias Pauter combo and definately should not have second thoughts on your purchase.

Lorca@Z1

See my new thread re broken stock rod bolts here: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=97936

dansouliere

So we all know low compression means more boost but high compression means more HP and quicker spool up.

Where is the comprimise? I am planning for 12-15psi on the APS TT kit but what if later down the road i want more boost? I need to buy the 8.5cr pistons right?

Lorca@Z1

Higher compression means more horsepower at a given boost level and generally quicker spool up, but lower compression means higher potential boost levels and invariably more total power.

I personally would not recomend a compression ratio that does not allow you to reach the full potential of the turbos unless you have some specific power/torque range that you need/want to be in for at a given RPM level for circuit racing or autorcross, etc.

Also, keep in mind that gobs of torque at the lower RPMs will be essentially useless for anything but spinning the tires.

8.5/1 is the standard for turbo cars because it gives you room for error with detonation.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Well, yes and no. As with most things in life...there are two sides to the story. Many people will argure that you need to need to define your peak WHP goal, the effciency sweetspot where the turbo will operate, and the determine the optimal CR for that application. There is no general rile the 8.5:1 is best for turbos. If my goal was 500-550whp, I would not want 8.5:1 CR. If my goal was 700whp, then yes...I would want 8.5:1.

As mentioned, lower CR's spool slower, and the trq curve gets moved upstream. Sure...more trq at lower RPM can spin tires, but it also provides a deep, and rich trq feel at part throttle. Part throttle drivability and trq is something I wouldnt want to give up...particularly for street usage.

Daking350z

Yeah,
But the one thing your forgetting is that APS specifically designed these turbos and mated them to the engines performance.They were not just an off the shelf turbo like the greddy kit..APS stated that these particular turbos at 16 psi will flow enough CFM to make 800 hp...So I am assuming you will see 500whp right around 10 psi regardless of compression ratio cause you will be allowed to run the more aggressive timing and A/F map..Dont forget APS ran their car at 9.2 psi on a stock motor at around 430whp for the testing process.Now I can only assume that they had LOADS of timing pulled up top as well as tapering the boost curve off in the higher RPMS as timing advances..They even had their car bumped up to over 500whp for the remainder of their testing phase when they figured out the problem causing a majority of failed engines in the Z..

Also why would you say Pauter rods are complete overkill in this application?What makes the Carillo rods any better?Are they cheaper?Or is it cause you guys carry them?Im just curious...

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Daking...the APS kit is the shiznit...not question.

But the 800hp number they are quote must be crank HP. There is NO POSSIBLE way those turbos can effciiently flow 800whp worth of air. They are much smaller than the Greddy TT's, and even the Greddy will poop out at 700-800whp worth of air.

When he said they dynoed 9psi at 430whp, those numbers are in line with a tuned Greddy kit. So realistically, at a given boost level, I dont think you'll notice one kit producing more power than the other. It really depends on the tune. A tune can change whp ddramtically...even at the same boost level.

We really need to seem several dynojet dynos of the APS kit..so we can compare apples to apples.

Lorca@Z1

From my post in the custom pistons thread:

"We spoke to Carrillo and Eagle about rods. Based on the intended use of the rods the smaller and lighter A beam appears to be the best choice for FI on the VQ. The I/H beam rods are recomended for high reving (8000k+) endurance racing applications. The rod is most stressed when it is at full extension and high RPM's exagerate this stress. Forced induction applications actually cushion the rod on the down stroke because there is so much more pressure (air) in the combustion chamber and the rod is strongest on the downstroke."

We asked for the best rod for the specific FI VQ35 application and they told us at length why the lighter (and cheaper) design was what we needed. We sell both designs and Eagle as well as Pauter, but as of the SEMA show, we only recomend the Carrillo A beam.

Daking350z

This explanation really doesnt clear things up for me as to why you feel Carillo rods are better for the 350Z than Pauter? The Pauter rods are thicker and stronger no?Isnt that what you would want as insurance policy??
Also what is the price difference in the corrilo to pauter..I know the pauter are around $980 a set give or take $50..Whats the corrillo's??
I am guessing the "A" beams are corrilo's and the "IH" beam is the pauter??
Please expound on this comment as I and many other on this board already purchased Pauter rods so we have a vested interest to hear your explenation backed up by facts and not just personal opinions.
Thank you..

Enron Exec

I think Lorca was stating that the weight of the Carrillo rods are significantly lighter then the Pauter so for most street/strip applications, where we wont be treading over 8000rpms for extended periods of time or laying down 1000 rwhp, the pauter rods are just added weight to the rotating mass. He basicly is saying there might be like 10-20 more hp to be found by using a lighter set of rods that will still satisfy most street users. I think he is also saying the design of A beam rods match up with the dynamics of a FI VQ35DE because of some tech stuff like pistons speeds or mass... stuff i dont really understand yet. Just a side note, Smithtown used Carrillo rods in their VQ35DE when laying down ~600rwhp off their PE kit. No idea if its the same motor they used at NOPI for those 8 sec runs with the turbonetics turbos.

IMO, i like the reassurance that i have the strongest rods possible, even at the cost of a few hp and a few hundred bucks, because unlike racing teams, i cant afford to rebuild motors every season.