BluZee

What gaskets come with the kit? Wouldnt we need a new throttle body gasket along with two plenum gaskets (for the top and bottom of the plenum spacer)?

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

Sorry if I conveyed that, that isn't what I ment to imply. When ambient temperatures are above 55 degrees, the valve will supply cooler air to the engine.
If ambient temperatures are below 55 degrees, the Copper Iso Thermal set up will supply cooler air to the engine.

If you use both together, you can get the best of either when its above or below 55'F. But any difference in air inlet temperature at the valve by using both together is predominantly academic.

The Copper adds so little heat to the air flow, adding a valve won't make much of a difference. The total surface area of the TB is very small compared to the inside of the upper and lower plenum.

The TB is also very smooth compared to the rough sand cast finish of the plenum.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

You don't need a lower gasket for the spacer but we do supply a new upper gasket and a new TB gasket.

Its all shown in the attached pictures.

BluZee

I checked the pictures again and dont see a throttle body gasket, maybe Im missing it. I just wasnt sure about the plenum gasket.

I dont see the TB gasket in this pic.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

This one.
https://my350z.com/forum/attachment....chmentid=82094
Next to the Copper.

BluZee

What if youre not getting the copper part? You still have to take off the TB to install the plenum spacer. (Im interested in the #6 package) Thanks for the help.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

No you don't. And I am updating the installation manual to reflect that.

You can unglug the hoses from the plenum and tilt it to the side to have full access to the lower plenum.

BluZee

Thanks again. So about that group buy.................

ZinMiami

iTrader: (2)

Thats how I did mine. Fortunately I realized that that would work so I disregarded that part of the manual and skipped the TB removal.

Tony, today I took a reading of the upper plenum surface using an IR digital thermometer. With the unit in direct contact read 123 deg. At a distance of 1/4" above the plenum I read an avg of 127 deg as it was picking up additional ambient heat. The TB readings were identical. As a comparison my AFE intake tube was at 154 deg and the ambient temp inside the heatshield was ~165 deg.

Todays temp in Miami during my drive time home was 87 deg with a "feels like index" of 100 deg. The time on the road in suburban traffic is about 35 minutes.

LMG_35C

Tony, thanks for expanding on your answer to my original question. From the looks of the other questions being sent your way I didn't want to use up any more of your time as I'd rather have you working on more great stuff for us all!!!
So I guess my reasoning for using both does make some sense, and not just to me. I think it's more than academic for those of us that are more often below 55 degrees; why heat the entire plenum when you only need to heat the TB valve? Then again, why the hell are they heating the plenum at all?

Any G35's in the Arctic Circle?

..and thanks to jct for re-inserting the question in a much more direct way.

--->enquiring minds waiting patiently for group buy. I'm on vacation next week and won't be on-line - better not close it out before I'm back. Save me a 3/8" upgrade and TB heater for sure...

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

Hi John,
Were you able to get reference temps of the same locations (pre installation)?

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

Right on. Will do!

I'll Set up the GB thread this Saturday.

ZinMiami

iTrader: (2)

Unfortunately no. I was in a hurry to get this installed when it arrived because, well basically we are all little kids that can't wait to play with new toys. It arrived Friday afternoon and I was leaving town on Sunday for 4 days so Saturday morning I wanted to install and I didn't want to heat up the car and have to wait hours for it to cool again. There!

I will take a reading from my neighbors Z which is also the 287HP model. It should give me an adequate reading for comparision.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

Even though the Iso gasket is installed, you can still do temperaure measurements with the CCV in both the open and closed position.

Try that and see what you get.

If possible, try to get multiple data points of each. Even under seemingly similar conditions you will find a lot of variation. A lot of it depends on how you drive, how fast you are moving, how long you wait between measurements, and so on.

I did my measurements on the same stretch of freeway with cruise control set to 70 MPH and run for many miles untill it reaches a good thermal equilibrium. I had thermocouples so I could see how different throttle positions affected temperatures while driving.

In some cases, I was able to get the Iso Thermal plenum temperature a little bit lower than ambient temperature.
WHAT?!?! HOW COULD THAT BE?!?!

With the conditions "just right", the Joule Thompson effect kicks in. When cruising, the throttle position is "nearly" closed and a significant vaccum forms in the plenum but there is still a good amount of air flowing through the partially open TB. As the air passes through the TB, it is expanding into the vaccum of the plenum. This is adiabatic expansion of a gas and naturally the gas (air) gets cold. With the TB just cracked open ever so slightly, its blowing cold expanded air against the plenum. I measured this just behind the TB.

You have to drive with it at just the right throttle position for a considerable amount of time to see this effect. You might be able to measure it if you can jump out of the car and quickly pop the hood.

Interesting observation though.

EDIT:
I just thought of something. I suggest using the stock air box (rather than the AFE) for these types of thermal measurements. Even if they flow better, I have seen that Pop Charger like air intakes can suck in a lot of hot air from the engine bay.

The stock air intake is actually really good at giving your engine cool, fresh air.

BluZee

Do you think a Varis air duct with the Pop Charger would help?

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

Tony,

I have to agree with you on the idea of sticking to the stock air box. It's not as bad as most people would imagine.

I have an OBD monitor on my Z and have used it to record the intake temp (measured at the MAF). At highway speeds, the temperature at the MAF is only about 5°F warmer than the ambient air temperature. At lower speeds (30mph, in traffic) the temperature difference jumps up to about 15°. Still not bad though.

Dave

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

I'm not familiar with the Varis.

Dave,
Yes, I've measured similar readings with the OBDII.

And believe me, HIGH INLET TEMPERATURES BRING DOWN HP QUICKLY.

I measured a whole range of inlet temperatures Vs HP and it makes a big difference. When Andy at Perf Nissan measured a intake that reduced output by 8 HP, I suspect it was due to hot air ingestion. That will do it easy.
Even with the hood open, if there is a hot air recirculation zone created by the heat shield, that's all it takes.

Z BOY

iTrader: (41)

i'm installing the iso thermal kit this weekend, and i'd like to do some pre and post plenum temperature measurements, but all i have is a cooking thermometer. would that work, more or less?

BluZee

It lets outside air go directly into the intake. I just installed mine yesterday.

Heres a pic of mine and a pic of another Z with the same setup.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

If you can somhow bond it to the plenum... Make sure you are measuring the plenum temperature and not the surrounding air.

I had thermocouples. I put them underneath the 6 center plenum bolts and tightened to spec. I also put a thermocouple under the long bolt next to the TB. That's about the best way to measure it.

OCG35 used the hand held infarometer. He would take it for a long routine drive, jump out and measure the same places every time.

Although the temps have been loged by hand on several occasions, once I get the Innovate motorsports and lap top all hooked up with the AUXbox I will high speed data log the thermo couple reading over several trips pre/post and plot the results in excel. I'll see if I can pre/post this at the track between heats too.

I've installed so damn many plenum mods I'm getting really good at this.