genegoesfast

iTrader: (16)

question directed at this guy>...what kind of dyno did you run on?

MrKaira

iTrader: (87)

i'm not sure, it was in-ground and he said it was similar (but not identical) to a mustang dyno. Any ideas?

genegoesfast

iTrader: (16)

I ran on a mustang all-wheel in-ground and ran 285whp.

This dyno was weird though.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

all the details are in my signature, including a link with all the info and specs on my motor, pics, etc.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

The thing is though that all the Japanese tuners you see are all basing it on Dynapack #'s, and, like anything else, those #'s are relative to themselves. One day I'll get my car on a Dynapack just so I can see how it truly compares to some of the tuner cars from Japan. They also are taking things a bit further than we are in terms of using the NISMO heads (they all use them) and as a result, CR ratios in the 13:1 range, and more radical cams. It would certainly be interesting to see what those types of cars from Amuse, Attkd, Esprit, MCR (those are the guys pushing the NA envelope) would do on a more US typical Dynojet or Dyno Dynamics.

My build is by no means finished either We're running a very conservative tune right now, and, I am looking forward to testing the Cosworth intake manifold, and really exploring some more tuning strategies to see what she'll top out at in the future.

RBlover69

iTrader: (2)

thats vussup, i will be staying tuned. Nismo heads are like a arm and a leg, i havent seen anyone here run them. Your def right about them doing a bit more . All of the Zs in japan there are def not stock compression. It would be nice for one of the companies to just layout what they did aswell. They all seem to use there own ECUs aswell which is even more challenging , but with alternative like Fcon which is preety much the best we got out there (havent seen this on a NA build) maybey we can unlock some more power. Nice that your pushing the envelope man much props. Im going the same route if my car can stop getting damaged by car wash drivers who cant drive stick. Thanks.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

All the Japanese firms have been very good actually of laying out what's been done. They might not update their websites as often as we do here in the states, but there are magazine article after article written about all the major shop builds of the their own Z's. As for the ecu work, there really is no mystery. Those utilizing a stock ecu use exactly the same software as Technosquare/AAM here in the US use. In fact, Technosquare is the US distributor for that software, and are the ones who have adopted it for use on the North American spec ecu's. Or, there is the UTEC/FCon, Haltech, etc route to go too.

gambino

I believe it was a mustang all wheel dyno. keep in mind I have a 2007

t.storbeck

i'm still new to the tuning scene but how do you get different hp numbers from different dynos?

genegoesfast

iTrader: (16)

they are all calibrated differently...they also use different types of correction to account for temp changes...etc...some are load based others are not. Lots of differences.

JS04

iTrader: (6)

I read somewhere where most of the Japan tuners use the nismo heads but they are bored to certain specs. Also the cams they use are around the 272-280 duration type. And like Z1 said they dyno on a dynapack.

genegoesfast

iTrader: (16)

yeah...nismo heads raise compression up to 13:1 running a stock bottom end. They make for a smaller combustion chamber.

gjoey66

could be speculation...but i've always heard the dynojet is one of the more aggressive dynos and usually gives higher numbers...my understanding is that a dynapack is a different type of dyno that's more accurate and should give lower numbers...so we'd be putting down even lower numbers in Japan...but this is mostly from the racing crowd who use dynopack dyno's so that can claim to be within spec knowing that they're actually putting down more power than people who spec out on a dynojet...

again, no personal experience with a dynapack...but i know i get my highest numbers from a dynojet...

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

Dynapacks tend to read highest of them all, not lower, but its inconsequential - the final output # is not nearly as important as the gains vs previous runs on that same dyno - that is what is important

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

dyno dynamics < mustang < dynojet < dynapack

- I think this is how it usually plays out...

TheJerk

Dynojets read higher than Mustang dynos

plumpzz

iTrader: (10)

^You suck at math.
HP doesn't mean much without the RPM number. Z1's 303 hp at 8000 rpm is obviously more useful than 303hp at 5000 rpm (easy with a supercharger).

SergEK

Your view of NA tuning is a little narrow --- Our NA Hondas kick the crap out of the cars from Japan....its not a "tuning" knowledge its more about money than anything else

The Z engine is pretty simple and to get really crazy its gonna take alot of CUSTOM work that costs MONEY

ITBS are just the start (and some US tuners have made more gains with custom manifolds).....the ports are small on the Z as are the combustion chambers....the cams are limited in lift for street duty...VVEL will help but thats on future motors

NA gains are about small steps and ALOT of testing....since its cheaper and easier to make big power (for a heavy car like ours) most street guys are wise to use FI.....a high whp NA setup will not be cheap or very streetable since the cams would have to be crazy enough to supply high revs you need to make power

Intake -- high speed lobe: 312.5 (13.72mm) I would love to see a VQ run a cam like this on the street....

Hell even this
Intake --- high speed lobe: 302 (13.28mm) --- this is a street cam

http://www.intrinsicperformance.com/

Mid 9 sec (and dropping) all motor 4cyl .....dont think the J-spec boys can touch this yet =)

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

What does a 9 second ~2000 lb Honda have to do with a Z? Are we now just comparing results on the drag strip? There are any # of Mustangs in that case that can come out and rip that car a new ahole too....but neither has any bearing on the VQ in engine development or the Z as a platform. The only similarities are that they are all NA and all run on some form of gasoline.

I think his view of NA tuning happens to be spot on, in the world of the VQ at least. In this realm, the lions share of the testing, the development, and the results have come from the Japanese tuners. In the world of Honda tuning, most of that work, and interest, has been done here (with some exceptions being in Japan and elsewhere). Cars tend to be regional in their appeal to the aftermarket, with some areas of the world going for one type of "build" while other area of the world goes for another.

Again, we're debating something that is not really debatable. Who cares what one company calls 'streetable' in terms of duration, or lift, or anything else? There is no doubt that there is NA power to be had from the VQ, but every few months it seems someone else comes into a thread, claims this and that, and that is all it ends up being....some rambling claim with 0 ounce of fact to back it up.

Are there 400 + HP VQ's out there in the world? Absolutely - I can name several places that have developed, own and run them. So what? What bearing does that have on those trying to build a worthy NA streetable car? Frankly not much, as the two types of builds are very dissimilar where it matters most.

And I'm sorry but money does not buy experience - it never has, it never will. Big budget builds don't always equal real power. Not to say that it would not take a significant investment to do an NA car propetlly, but no matter what car you build, from a Z, to a Honda, to a Ford Probe, it takes a significant investment, relative to the price of the car to make truly meaningful results (ie beyond the level of what bolt ons accomplish).

Not every car begs for the same parts - not every car wants, nor needs ITB's, not every car wants, or needs insanely ground cams - engines are a unit, there is no one magic part in the NA world that you are going to bolt on that suddenly changes the game - its a far more incremental approach, that must be well thought out and well planned from top to bottom.

Wired 24/7

iTrader: (2)

Figure with about $5000-7000 in parts, labor, and GOOD tuning, you can get about

30-35 whp higher than stock with N/A mods, provided you don't bark up any of the wrong trees.

VQ35HR -- your guess is as good as mine. My guess is that it won't be as easy to extract top end HP but the curve could be improved to release better torque in the middle.