Cold air, short ram, drop in?
09-01-2007, 11:29 PM
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Cold air, short ram, drop in?
Read the sticky, saw your opinions but I would like to know WHY. I had an AEM short ram on my previous civic. Now 03 enthusiast and I want something cheap but effective. Cant justify $300 for an AEM, however if it does the trick I will. I went to Stillen's website and found a few intakes they offer. K&N, AEM, Injen or Stiellen's own drop in box and filter. Is cold air really effective with the Z? Any input would be good. Sorry, I am sure this is asked a lot, but I'm new and don't want to make a bad decision with my new Z.
09-01-2007, 11:44 PM
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I tried all and i found that the stock air box with a k n drop in was best. You lose too much low end tq with teh otehr intakes. If you daily drive your car and love tq, just stick to stock airbox. I haven't tried teh stillen but most likely it would probably be good.
09-01-2007, 11:56 PM
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Yeah I noticed with my civic AEM intake, which didint have much torque to begin with, that it did actually reduce torque in low rpm's so much that I couldnt make it up hills without higher RPM ranges. Maybe that Stillen will do the trick.
http://www.stillen.com/browse.asp?b=...SAN&model=350Z
http://www.stillen.com/browse.asp?b=...SAN&model=350Z
09-05-2007, 12:58 PM
#6
Either go K&N drop-in or JWT short ram filter.
Amazingly, CAI work against the car as there is an air damn in the grill designed to route air up to teh stock air box. When utilising a CAI, this air damn actually isolates the filter and the car actually has to work harder to breathe!
Whoever designed the Nismo CAI without instructions to remove the air damn was / is an idiot!
Amazingly, CAI work against the car as there is an air damn in the grill designed to route air up to teh stock air box. When utilising a CAI, this air damn actually isolates the filter and the car actually has to work harder to breathe!
Whoever designed the Nismo CAI without instructions to remove the air damn was / is an idiot!
09-05-2007, 01:48 PM
#7
Originally Posted by Blu_Blur
Either go K&N drop-in or JWT short ram filter.
Amazingly, CAI work against the car as there is an air damn in the grill designed to route air up to teh stock air box. When utilising a CAI, this air damn actually isolates the filter and the car actually has to work harder to breathe!
Whoever designed the Nismo CAI without instructions to remove the air damn was / is an idiot!
Amazingly, CAI work against the car as there is an air damn in the grill designed to route air up to teh stock air box. When utilising a CAI, this air damn actually isolates the filter and the car actually has to work harder to breathe!
Whoever designed the Nismo CAI without instructions to remove the air damn was / is an idiot!
Location:
Defiantville, CA
Just out of curiosity what go you drive?
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09-05-2007, 06:30 PM
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I ordered a JWT pop charger last night. Should have shipped out this morning. I figured it was an easy install and easy cone replacement for the future.
09-05-2007, 07:03 PM
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jesus christ
im just curious cause i keep hearing all this stuff about how the stock box with a kn drop in is better than a cai that makes absolutly no sense to me
to my knowledge a K&n filter is the same freakn thing as the factory except you can clean it blah blah blah k&n says it flows better uh huh sure and intakes can add 15hp
Please some one correct me PLEASE if im wrong(with a good arguement)
Short rams are near engine so yes no matter what the company says the engine will heat that air coming in
the only thing that makes since to me is a cai they are positioned outside the engine compartment for cooler airflow
and something yall gotta remember is we (those who actually have them) drive a high performance vehicle its hard to get hp out of bolt on mods cause everything on the car is already decent
i can understand the part about the airdam and ive never tryd on a Z but seems like its as easy as takn that out
to my knowledge a K&n filter is the same freakn thing as the factory except you can clean it blah blah blah k&n says it flows better uh huh sure and intakes can add 15hp
Please some one correct me PLEASE if im wrong(with a good arguement)
Short rams are near engine so yes no matter what the company says the engine will heat that air coming in
the only thing that makes since to me is a cai they are positioned outside the engine compartment for cooler airflow
and something yall gotta remember is we (those who actually have them) drive a high performance vehicle its hard to get hp out of bolt on mods cause everything on the car is already decent
i can understand the part about the airdam and ive never tryd on a Z but seems like its as easy as takn that out
Last edited by blck350; 09-05-2007 at 07:07 PM.
09-05-2007, 07:44 PM
#11
Originally Posted by blck350
im just curious cause i keep hearing all this stuff about how the stock box with a kn drop in is better than a cai that makes absolutly no sense to me
to my knowledge a K&n filter is the same freakn thing as the factory except you can clean it blah blah blah k&n says it flows better uh huh sure and intakes can add 15hp
Please some one correct me PLEASE if im wrong(with a good arguement)
Short rams are near engine so yes no matter what the company says the engine will heat that air coming in
the only thing that makes since to me is a cai they are positioned outside the engine compartment for cooler airflow
and something yall gotta remember is we (those who actually have them) drive a high performance vehicle its hard to get hp out of bolt on mods cause everything on the car is already decent
i can understand the part about the airdam and ive never tryd on a Z but seems like its as easy as takn that out
to my knowledge a K&n filter is the same freakn thing as the factory except you can clean it blah blah blah k&n says it flows better uh huh sure and intakes can add 15hp
Please some one correct me PLEASE if im wrong(with a good arguement)
Short rams are near engine so yes no matter what the company says the engine will heat that air coming in
the only thing that makes since to me is a cai they are positioned outside the engine compartment for cooler airflow
and something yall gotta remember is we (those who actually have them) drive a high performance vehicle its hard to get hp out of bolt on mods cause everything on the car is already decent
i can understand the part about the airdam and ive never tryd on a Z but seems like its as easy as takn that out
Members will post:
The K&N Typhoon Air Intake is too long, and hurts performance.
Alphawerks Stainless Steel Headers are cheap.
Injen Super SES Cat-Back Exhaust System is only 2 inches, and no better than the OEM exhaust.
Yet those same members will never post their performance above. I wonder why?
09-05-2007, 08:51 PM
#12
Originally Posted by davidv
Members will post:
The K&N Typhoon Air Intake is too long, and hurts performance.
Alphawerks Stainless Steel Headers are cheap.
Injen Super SES Cat-Back Exhaust System is only 2 inches, and no better than the OEM exhaust.
Yet those same members will never post their performance above. I wonder why?
Your intake isn't giving you power. I had the same intake, even redesigning the air box to seal it from the engine bay, it was a lethal heat sink. Only after sealing it and adding insulation did I see normal engine temps as pulled from the MAF sensor in real time. While driving I did see temps fall 7 degree's below oem, but that's only because of my modification's, before that it was consistently showing above oem temps. Given it's limitation's and poor design I pulled it and since I don't believe in reselling things I won't own, it's resting in my local landfill. Again, the oem intake is a cold air intake and a very good one, I thought I could reinvent the wheel by fixing what was wrong with the Typhoon, I wasted my time and money, lesson learned.
09-05-2007, 08:56 PM
#13
Injen exhaust is better then the oem exhaust we have the 350Z sport mag dyno shoot out to prove that.
Real world numbers from the 350Z sports magazine dyno shoot out. Look at torque and where the power is delivered and over what range.
Borla (car 2) = 8.2 Hp - 2.7 ft/lbs torque (peak values)
HP increase from 5500 rpm to 6500 rpm range. Lost HP & torque below
1800 rpm. 60mm pipe. Weighs 52lbs.
Stillen (car 1) = 8.1 Hp - 7.3 ft/lbs torque (peak values)
Hp and torque increase starting around 3000 rpm to redline. Lost a
little Hp & torque below 1800 rpm. 60mm pipe. 74lbs - 10 lbs heavier
than the stock system.
*Injen (car 1) = 7.6 Hp - 5.1 ft/lbs torque (peak values)
Small torque loss at 2800 rpm. Torque gain starts at 3300 rpm. Small
Hp increase starts at 3300 rpm, maxing out from 5800 rpm to redline.
Major loss in Hp and torque below 2200 rpm. 49lbs.
Nismo (car 1) = 6.3 Hp - 4.5 ft/lbs torque (peak values)
Developed torque and Hp over wide rpm range. Torque increase starting
at 3000 rpm. Most HP increase from 4800 rpm to redline. No power
losses below 1800 rpm. 54lbs.
5Zigen (car 2) = (-3.4) Hp - .02 ft/lbs torque (peak values) Lost Hp,
no real torque gain. Most expensive. Loudest. 58mm pipe. Lightest
@ 25lbs.
*Injen has made a running change to their exhaust, sometime during production they changed from 50mm pipe diameters as tested and have now adapted a 60mm diameter with a H-crossover.
Real world numbers from the 350Z sports magazine dyno shoot out. Look at torque and where the power is delivered and over what range.
Borla (car 2) = 8.2 Hp - 2.7 ft/lbs torque (peak values)
HP increase from 5500 rpm to 6500 rpm range. Lost HP & torque below
1800 rpm. 60mm pipe. Weighs 52lbs.
Stillen (car 1) = 8.1 Hp - 7.3 ft/lbs torque (peak values)
Hp and torque increase starting around 3000 rpm to redline. Lost a
little Hp & torque below 1800 rpm. 60mm pipe. 74lbs - 10 lbs heavier
than the stock system.
*Injen (car 1) = 7.6 Hp - 5.1 ft/lbs torque (peak values)
Small torque loss at 2800 rpm. Torque gain starts at 3300 rpm. Small
Hp increase starts at 3300 rpm, maxing out from 5800 rpm to redline.
Major loss in Hp and torque below 2200 rpm. 49lbs.
Nismo (car 1) = 6.3 Hp - 4.5 ft/lbs torque (peak values)
Developed torque and Hp over wide rpm range. Torque increase starting
at 3000 rpm. Most HP increase from 4800 rpm to redline. No power
losses below 1800 rpm. 54lbs.
5Zigen (car 2) = (-3.4) Hp - .02 ft/lbs torque (peak values) Lost Hp,
no real torque gain. Most expensive. Loudest. 58mm pipe. Lightest
@ 25lbs.
*Injen has made a running change to their exhaust, sometime during production they changed from 50mm pipe diameters as tested and have now adapted a 60mm diameter with a H-crossover.
09-05-2007, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by blck350
im just curious cause i keep hearing all this stuff about how the stock box with a kn drop in is better than a cai that makes absolutly no sense to me
to my knowledge a K&n filter is the same freakn thing as the factory except you can clean it blah blah blah k&n says it flows better uh huh sure and intakes can add 15hp
Please some one correct me PLEASE if im wrong(with a good arguement)
Short rams are near engine so yes no matter what the company says the engine will heat that air coming in
the only thing that makes since to me is a cai they are positioned outside the engine compartment for cooler airflow
and something yall gotta remember is we (those who actually have them) drive a high performance vehicle its hard to get hp out of bolt on mods cause everything on the car is already decent
i can understand the part about the airdam and ive never tryd on a Z but seems like its as easy as takn that out
to my knowledge a K&n filter is the same freakn thing as the factory except you can clean it blah blah blah k&n says it flows better uh huh sure and intakes can add 15hp
Please some one correct me PLEASE if im wrong(with a good arguement)
Short rams are near engine so yes no matter what the company says the engine will heat that air coming in
the only thing that makes since to me is a cai they are positioned outside the engine compartment for cooler airflow
and something yall gotta remember is we (those who actually have them) drive a high performance vehicle its hard to get hp out of bolt on mods cause everything on the car is already decent
i can understand the part about the airdam and ive never tryd on a Z but seems like its as easy as takn that out
The stock air box draws cold air already and is close to the motor. The K&N filter allows much more air to flow through - its construction isnt so you could clean & reuse, that's just an added benefit...
Cold air intakes draw cold air also, obviously, but the distance air has to travel is much longer. I wouldn't expect much of a gain, if any.
09-06-2007, 12:05 PM
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ok time for a science lesson
Hot air and cold air
colder air is more dense because particles are closer together (much better for combustion and you can get away with slightly less flow even if that was the case)
hot air is the oposite even if you for feed your engine more less dense air your not gettn the benifit of the cooler air
A cold air intake is better, of course like some one has said you have to take into acount that the air may need to be re routed toward a cai but a tube with a filter is a tube with a filter the only real differance is if you can get the air and make it cooler and denser when it enters the engine
thats why i said the K&N drop in shouldnt be better than a good cai it is much cheaper but how could it be better and i see no possible way a short ram makes any since but thats jsut me
Hot air and cold air
colder air is more dense because particles are closer together (much better for combustion and you can get away with slightly less flow even if that was the case)
hot air is the oposite even if you for feed your engine more less dense air your not gettn the benifit of the cooler air
A cold air intake is better, of course like some one has said you have to take into acount that the air may need to be re routed toward a cai but a tube with a filter is a tube with a filter the only real differance is if you can get the air and make it cooler and denser when it enters the engine
thats why i said the K&N drop in shouldnt be better than a good cai it is much cheaper but how could it be better and i see no possible way a short ram makes any since but thats jsut me
09-06-2007, 12:58 PM
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Because, it isn't just a box sitting there. Its designed for maximum flow and minimum pressure drop. Cold air is routed into the air box - effectively its a shielded CAI. The 350Z's stock air box is one of the most efficient and effective out there.
09-06-2007, 01:48 PM
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The new Fujita intake for 07's actually lost 3 hp on another post. I did some home-brew modifications on the factory airboxes and will be posting some dyno numbers soon. FYI