any interest in equal length stainless headers?
06-01-2003, 02:11 PM
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any interest in equal length stainless headers?
Hey, this is actually only my 2nd post on the forum, have been following since I got my Z in November though.
I own a metal fabrication shop that usually does one-off custom products for customers but I have seen a lot of excitement for the Z and I have found that most manufacturers have taken there sweet time in releasing products.
My question is would there be any interest in a set of equal length headers, that also replace the stock cats. Now I realize this may not be street legal in some states, but check engine light will be avoided and we believe there are large gains to be made from an upgrade like this.
We would be shooting for a gain of 15-23 peak with power also added down low. Of course we will have before and after dyno runs to validate any gains we see or claim.
We will be mainly making our parts from stainless, laser cut flanges, high polish finish. I am a sucker for shiny things and I know they don't help the gains but most exhaust products I have seen released may be stainless, but they fail to bring out the beauty of stainless. All products are also TIG welded
Pricing, if accomplished will not exceed $1000 !!! We are confident to be able to come in at around $900 dollars. Also if there would be interest in a less expensive mild steel design. But price will only be about $100 cheaper as mild steel will need to be coated.
I ask for any response, suggestions, thoughts, basically any feedback is very appreciated, good or bad.
We are open to any ideas, we like to choose ideas, and execute on them, no excitement then indefinite wait.
Other products we are almost finished developing
* cat pipe replacement with 02 bung
- polished stainless, 3/8 laser cut flange
- within 2 weeks
* Y pipe , polished stainless
- 10 days
* camber rods and traction rods
- polished stainless, fully adjustable on car without removal
- 10 days
* mid pipe, resonator replacement
- polished stainless
- 1 week
Thanks for your help guys, and hopefully I can contribute some great products with your help.
I own a metal fabrication shop that usually does one-off custom products for customers but I have seen a lot of excitement for the Z and I have found that most manufacturers have taken there sweet time in releasing products.
My question is would there be any interest in a set of equal length headers, that also replace the stock cats. Now I realize this may not be street legal in some states, but check engine light will be avoided and we believe there are large gains to be made from an upgrade like this.
We would be shooting for a gain of 15-23 peak with power also added down low. Of course we will have before and after dyno runs to validate any gains we see or claim.
We will be mainly making our parts from stainless, laser cut flanges, high polish finish. I am a sucker for shiny things and I know they don't help the gains but most exhaust products I have seen released may be stainless, but they fail to bring out the beauty of stainless. All products are also TIG welded
Pricing, if accomplished will not exceed $1000 !!! We are confident to be able to come in at around $900 dollars. Also if there would be interest in a less expensive mild steel design. But price will only be about $100 cheaper as mild steel will need to be coated.
I ask for any response, suggestions, thoughts, basically any feedback is very appreciated, good or bad.
We are open to any ideas, we like to choose ideas, and execute on them, no excitement then indefinite wait.
Other products we are almost finished developing
* cat pipe replacement with 02 bung
- polished stainless, 3/8 laser cut flange
- within 2 weeks
* Y pipe , polished stainless
- 10 days
* camber rods and traction rods
- polished stainless, fully adjustable on car without removal
- 10 days
* mid pipe, resonator replacement
- polished stainless
- 1 week
Thanks for your help guys, and hopefully I can contribute some great products with your help.
06-01-2003, 03:07 PM
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To make the headers with true equal lengths, and keep the production costs down, The extra space that the factory cats use will be used for more room for the headers. This does unfortunately mean no cats....BUT I would check with local laws, because I don't believe high flow cats are even legal themselves, at least not in california they arent, so if its being legal that worries you, high flow cats might not solve the problem.
I think the cat pipes with bung will be sold for low $200 range, not sure yet as we need to total up cost of parts with laser cut flanges, gaskets, hardware etc. Will probably offer a non polished version for about $25 less as well.
I think the cat pipes with bung will be sold for low $200 range, not sure yet as we need to total up cost of parts with laser cut flanges, gaskets, hardware etc. Will probably offer a non polished version for about $25 less as well.
06-01-2003, 03:10 PM
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Will these fit the G35 coupe? Also, how hard is the installation? I installed downpipes on my S4 and I swear I spilt a quart of blood on the firewall, is this the case with the Z and G?
06-01-2003, 05:12 PM
#7
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It is great to see that you're also contributing to the Z performance market. I think the equal length headers are great, but if you're able to achieve the same HP as Doug Z's equal length headers, without replacing the CATS, along with a lower price tag, you'll definitely have a great market niche! I will be one of the first in line, if this ever materializes 
. Good luck with your endeavors.
. Good luck with your endeavors.
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06-01-2003, 05:34 PM
#8
Originally posted by fdao
I think the equal length headers are great, but if you're able to achieve the same HP as Doug Z's equal length headers, without replacing the CATS, along with a lower price tag, you'll definitely have a great market niche!
I think the equal length headers are great, but if you're able to achieve the same HP as Doug Z's equal length headers, without replacing the CATS, along with a lower price tag, you'll definitely have a great market niche!
Not sure if that is what you were saying or not.
06-01-2003, 05:59 PM
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I saw pics of Doug's headers before he sent them off for production I believe. I really liked his design but also noticed a later post stating that because of the tightness of the bends, they can't be sent off to a bender, and must be hand made.
I understand that the crawford headers will bolt up to stock cats, but the design we have been working on won't bolt up to the stock cats, they will replace them. Basically instead of a 2 piece design (cat bolts to header) it will be a 1 piece design that extends the header primary tubes down further, then into a merge collector, then continue down to a flange that will bolt onto the stock y-pipe or any aftermarket y-pipe.
We see benefits in truly equal length primary tubes, and hopefully one piece bends that won't require such tight radius bends.
On another note, about the legality of exhaust upgrades. To be completely "legal" headers would need to have a CARB certification #, otherwise they are technically illegal whether they replace cats, no cats, high flow cats, etec. Now most of us would agree however that this could only be "caught" with a visual inspection by the person conducting the smog check. I don't know of any headers that have CARB certification for the Z as of yet, but even if the stock cats were removed and replaced with straight pipes etc. I would almost assure they would pass the visual inspection due to the location of the headers/cats. The car could always be put back to stock if necessary.
Let me know if this all makes sense, or if it sounds accurate.
I understand that the crawford headers will bolt up to stock cats, but the design we have been working on won't bolt up to the stock cats, they will replace them. Basically instead of a 2 piece design (cat bolts to header) it will be a 1 piece design that extends the header primary tubes down further, then into a merge collector, then continue down to a flange that will bolt onto the stock y-pipe or any aftermarket y-pipe.
We see benefits in truly equal length primary tubes, and hopefully one piece bends that won't require such tight radius bends.
On another note, about the legality of exhaust upgrades. To be completely "legal" headers would need to have a CARB certification #, otherwise they are technically illegal whether they replace cats, no cats, high flow cats, etec. Now most of us would agree however that this could only be "caught" with a visual inspection by the person conducting the smog check. I don't know of any headers that have CARB certification for the Z as of yet, but even if the stock cats were removed and replaced with straight pipes etc. I would almost assure they would pass the visual inspection due to the location of the headers/cats. The car could always be put back to stock if necessary.
Let me know if this all makes sense, or if it sounds accurate.
06-01-2003, 06:08 PM
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I had a Type R with a Mugen race header on for almost two years before I had sold it. I can understand about people who stay in Cali, but here in AZ the police aren't going to bother you that much if you stay out of harm's way. Besides, when it comes to emissions testing in about three years I'll just swap back in stock headers.
06-01-2003, 08:14 PM
#11
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Originally posted by MannishBoy
You don't have to replace the cats on Doug's if you don't want to. They just experimented with higher flow cats to see how it worked out. Stock cats can also work, too.
Not sure if that is what you were saying or not.
You don't have to replace the cats on Doug's if you don't want to. They just experimented with higher flow cats to see how it worked out. Stock cats can also work, too.
Not sure if that is what you were saying or not.
What I meant was to build a set of headers just like Doug Z's one. I knew Doug Headers were designed to be Pre-Cat.
06-01-2003, 09:08 PM
#12
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Well, I would be interested in the headers without cats, heck I had the cats cut out of my last vehicle, although it did make it much louder. Whichever makes the most power I am all for, lol. Funny though, there is a lot down there to mess with, headers, cats, ypipe, exhaust, can't someone just come up with a whole total system that gives us like 50 horses total!!!
Of course, I will strap rockets to my car to make it faster......cops better call the choppers out!!!!
Of course, I will strap rockets to my car to make it faster......cops better call the choppers out!!!!
06-01-2003, 10:33 PM
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Well why not install some high flow cats further down the pipe?
They have to be legal... If not, why the heck have them?
I dont see why it would be a problem. Another company fabricated a Y-pipe with H flow cats and they are not as long as the factory setup!
They have to be legal... If not, why the heck have them?
I dont see why it would be a problem. Another company fabricated a Y-pipe with H flow cats and they are not as long as the factory setup!
06-02-2003, 10:26 AM
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Thanks for the input,
I think I will definately be looking into 2 options, possibly 3.
- stainless no cats
-stainless with high flow
- mild steel option as well
I also need to give credit where credit is due. Doug Crawford sent me a message regarding flanges he had available if needed. I thought was very cool. I can't even honestly say I would have done the same.
Give the man credit for what he has been trying to do and is doing.
I think I will definately be looking into 2 options, possibly 3.
- stainless no cats
-stainless with high flow
- mild steel option as well
I also need to give credit where credit is due. Doug Crawford sent me a message regarding flanges he had available if needed. I thought was very cool. I can't even honestly say I would have done the same.
Give the man credit for what he has been trying to do and is doing.
06-02-2003, 11:01 AM
#16
Joust is right; I would think a Y-pipe with a high-flow cat after the junction could work if your headers nix the cats. I'm already locked in for Doug's headers, but I would be in the market for anything else you put out.
06-02-2003, 01:39 PM
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Just to make this clear... Equal length headers all the way to the start of say, Borla cat back exhaust?? All bolt-up straight and fitting properly without mod's??
Sounds good
How much and how rust resistant will the welds be??
Also.. How do we avoid a warning light and ECU going into failsafe mode?? or is there a sensor mod to get around that and I just missed it??
Sounds good
How much and how rust resistant will the welds be??
Also.. How do we avoid a warning light and ECU going into failsafe mode?? or is there a sensor mod to get around that and I just missed it??
Last edited by Judge; 06-02-2003 at 01:45 PM.
06-02-2003, 02:29 PM
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yes, you are correct, in that they will bolt up to an aftermarket cat back exhaust, right where the y-pipe would start, or the borla dual.
As for the check engine light, according to other people, straight pipes on the Z have not run a check light, so hopefully, after some testing, there wont be any need for any type of sensor tricks.
The welds will all be TIG welded with stainless filler, so there will not be any kind of rust problem. The finished product should look very attractive.
As for the check engine light, according to other people, straight pipes on the Z have not run a check light, so hopefully, after some testing, there wont be any need for any type of sensor tricks.
The welds will all be TIG welded with stainless filler, so there will not be any kind of rust problem. The finished product should look very attractive.
06-04-2003, 06:00 PM
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Re: any interest in equal length stainless headers?
Originally posted by lsdunique
Pricing, if accomplished will not exceed $1000 !!! We are confident to be able to come in at around $900 dollars. Also if there would be interest in a less expensive mild steel design. But price will only be about $100 cheaper as mild steel will need to be coated.
Pricing, if accomplished will not exceed $1000 !!! We are confident to be able to come in at around $900 dollars. Also if there would be interest in a less expensive mild steel design. But price will only be about $100 cheaper as mild steel will need to be coated.